You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
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Watcha Doin' - 2019
That's truly horrible Travis and something I certainly don't want to see. Thanks for the heads up. I'll be avoiding those videos. Just your description makes me feel ill for those poor hogs. There has to be an easy way to do that more humanely.
Lisa, I couldn't watch those videos either. Just the pics of dogs used for meat and crammed into tiny cages makes me sick. I find it horrifying that they would skin something, anything alive. Unfortunately, China doesn't seem to have any difficulty being cruel to animals in various ways.
I'm skipping your posts because I can surmise they detail animal cruelty and I can't handle reading about that (hypocrite that I am). I did want to say something else about the Notre Dame donations. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great people contribute to the restoration, but those 100-200 million euro donations also make me a bit angry and sad. I mean, apparently there are a few people in France who can miss this amount of money like we can miss a 10-euro/dollar bill. They hardly even notice, it's basically pocket change. Yet, still there are so many people going hungry, families that live below the poverty line, in every western country (let alone the world). If I were living below the poverty line and had debts and had to try really hard to make ends meet and could not give my kids the things they want even if they don't want much, can never buy them new shoes or have them join a sports club or throw a big birthday party, and it's through no fault of my own, I would really be wondering why those people donate that kind of money in the blink of an eye to restore a building, but not use it to fight poverty or improve the lives of people in the country. It makes it feel a bit that they find a building (and an opportunity for good advertising) more important than people.
I know this may be a bit cynical and a little black and white, but I don't know, it feels wrong somehow.
This article sort of summarizes it: https://www.joe.ie/life-style/notre-d...
Thanks for the warning, Travis. I am terrible at watching those videos, as I think it will be better if I know. Older and wiser me is recognising what I need to know, and what i need to watch. So sorry it ruining your day, but thanks for letting us all know. I will have to read a bit more into it, sounds like it could be a massive health scare if it's jumping borders.I was thinking of you the other day, as we had a whole heap of full on vegan protests this past week. Blocked major crossroads in Melbourne, stormed farms in the middle of the night, kidnapped animals, etc. I am all for lessening animal cruelty in the farming industry. I think there are still practices here in Aus we should stop for example. But Travis, you have particularly helped me with my understanding of farmers, and how much they care for their animals, and the sacrifices farmers make for those animals.
So I think be vegan if that's what you want to do, don't support the dairy or meat industry if you really can't. As a dairy and meat and egg eater, I look for happy, healthy animals in what I buy.
But do not storm a barn at 4am with strobe lights and say you are doing the best thing for the animals. Don't hold animals (you can't care for) and farmers at ransom. It's counterproductive and stupid.
The Government coming out and saying they will prosecute militant vegans harsher than right wing white militants, how many weeks out from the Aussie shooting up the NZ mosque, pretty much dictated the tone for the next 4 weeks of election campaigning....
We had elections last night and I'm very disappointed. Trickle down economics doesn't work, and yet people continue to buy into it. Large corporations are promised a 4% tax cut. A balanced budget with surplus is promised in 3 years time. How? Right - cuts to healthcare and education. People seem to think this new premier who is under investigation by the RCMP for voting fraud (from a previous election) is going to magically change the global oil prices and revive the oil industry in Alberta. He's going to magically build that pipeline that has been held up by environmental and aboriginal groups for the last few years.He claims to be a religious man who's going to roll back rights and freedoms for LGBTQ. Heaven help a teen who wants to join a LGBTQ club at school. There will be legislation that makes it mandatory for the school to out the kid to his/her parents.
Oh, and minimum rate for teens under 18 will be lowered because "they don't need the money". What about all those kids from single parent families who are helping to support their families? What about those 17 year olds who are saving up to go to university or college? What about those 17 year olds who don't live at home? I was 17 when I graduated from High School and was living on my own and supporting myself. How fair is it that you have an 18 year old working alongside a 17 year old at Tim Hortons doing the same job for different rates of pay because of their age? So let's target the up and coming voters by cutting their education, their freedoms, and their right to earn an equal wage.
And he's a climate change denier who's going to revive and strengthen the coal industry in Alberta.
If I hear or read one more person use MAGA as in Make Alberta Great Again, I'm going to gag.
Wow, I was not ready for all of this this morning. I finally watched the pictures from Paris yesterday afternoon.
I can't think what to say about the pigs in China except awful, awful, awful. and I will not be clicking on any social media links to watch videos.
And Janice - I agree with you, totally. So many teens are forced to look for work before they even have a chance to get the education they need, and they are going to be told that they do not need as much money, for doing the same job? It is the same male mentality that used to be applied to women and immigrants.
Travis - I'm glad your wife's okay and her dog attack was not so bad. My daughter was attacked by a dog while she was walking past it's house a few years ago. She was bit on the leg. The dog was eventually put down, because the owners would not keep the dog penned or under control and it had bitten two others before my daughter.
I want to go back home and crawl back into bed.
Travis - That is horrific!! If I wasn't at work, with my new boss right here, I'd be crying. Pigs are such great animals and so intelligent! There's a special place in hell for those who abuse animals.
OMG Travis. That is horrible.
Rusalka wrote: "Laura (Lclwags) wrote: "I love that this group discusses sensitive subjects and is respectful about it! Travis and Margo I commend you for working to overcome prejudice. Wish certain of my family m..."@Laura and all, so sorry for getting on my soap box; my family is going through huge things at the moment and I think I'm trying to convince myself that the world is ready for us. I think Laura has already changed her own world :-)
I think the climate in europe is very different from other parts of the world. We all know how far we can go within our own society without treading on toes and provoking a row on facebook may not be the wisest think.
@Janice, that man sound very far right. Although our government recently brought in fairly draconian measures re: social welfare for young adults under 23. It is called "job seekers allowance" and is less than half of what an adult is entitled to. I can't understand who how young people are expected to survive on so much less than adults. Do you think that it is really likely that the current government will not stay in power?
Margo wrote: "Do you think that it is really likely that the current government will not stay in power? ..."This new government will take over right away and will be in power for 4 years.
I didn't realise canada was having a general election, please excuse my ignorance. All we are are hearing about is brexit. (I am so sick of that damned word lol). To take my mind off of politics I took out a free trial on Scribd. It is really cool, for $8.99 a month you can download tons of audio/e-books and they have a great selection. I sound like an add for them but I am enthralled by the idea. It is like Netflix for book lovers! The range is so much better than kindle unlimited.
Margo wrote: "I didn't realise canada was having a general election, please excuse my ignorance. All we are are hearing about is brexit. (I am so sick of that damned word lol). To take my mind off of politics ..."
It's a provincial election, not a federal election.
Janice wrote: "Margo wrote: "I didn't realise canada was having a general election, please excuse my ignorance. All we are are hearing about is brexit. (I am so sick of that damned word lol). To take my mind of..."
Ah, that explains it! It could be a tough 4 years for you Janice. What is the world coming to with so many extremist parties gaining popularity?
I don't often voice my opinions on politics. I'm always afraid of the backlash. It's really all about opinions and mine doesn't negate yours. I'm reminded of when Trump won the election. I was on holiday in Mexico and had just met a preacher and his wife from a state like Michigan. I can't remember where they were from. I asked them how they felt about Trump winning. Their response was, "We didn't vote for him, but we can only hope that maybe it will all work out." I have to give Jason Kenney a chance - 4 years of it. I read about the turmoil elsewhere in the world and I'm uneasy when I read his plans that seem to align with far right ideals.
Peggy wrote: "I did want to say something else about the Notre Dame donations. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great people contribute to the restoration, but those 100-200 million euro donations also make me a bit angry and sad. I mean, apparently there are a few people in France who can miss this amount of money like we can miss a 10-euro/dollar bill. "Peggy, I read your comment yesterday, but it was too late and I was too tired to answer (in my phone, also). I didn't read the article you linked yet, but I have read other similar articles and also a lot about it in social media. A lot of people with different opinions about this money-building-poverty issue. I think it is very complicated indeed, and it has different corners.
On one hand I think Notre Dame should be rebuilt because historical/cultural patrimony is important, and even if it is not going to be the same it is important for future generations. It was a new building 850 years ago. The new building won't be the same for us, but it will be a relic for the future generations. But I understand you are not against the rebuilding. The disparity between what some have compared with what others need is the issue. And here starts the complexity.
François-Henri Pinault (Salma Hayek's husband, who donned €100 millions) is CEO of Kering, a conglomerate of luxury brands. He is rich because there are a lot of people willing to pay €15,000 for a Yves Saint Laurent jacket, or €10,000 for a Bottega Veneta handbag. That is the truth.
And many people is saying why he doesn't donates that money to a poor country, for example, but it is also true that he created a foundation and is member of a couple of others and collaborates with different causes. Women's rights and ecology mostly for what I have read. So maybe he is already doing much more than the people who is complaining in twitter. Or maybe he is not. Who knows.
The part of donating money to poor people is also very complicated. If I had all that money I would like to help, but I couldn't tell you how I would do it. The worst problem poor countries have is corruption, and the fact that money never reaches the people who needs it. It is sad but it is true. The people who is in twitter saying he should give that money to the poor don't give even the $10 dollar they could give, and also think that poverty is solved with money, and that is not true.
I understand what you are saying in your post, and I agree with you in some extent. I just wanted to express that I think that it is so, so complicated. I am all about rebuilding the cathedral (or any other building with that significance to humanity, for that matter), and I am all about fighting poverty, and I am sure there is money in this world to do both. It's just that this world is so, so, so messed up, and that is not only the fault of the people who owns all those millions.
Janice wrote: "I don't often voice my opinions on politics. I'm always afraid of the backlash. It's really all about opinions and mine doesn't negate yours. I'm reminded of when Trump won the election. I was on..."
That is a very balanced response Janice. I think we can all learn from your story about those people you met on holiday. There is hope in any situation.
I tend to be very too outspoken in my opinions but I don't intentionly negate other peoples views. We all have a right to our opinion but I do believe in mature discuss in controlled situations. That is the problem with using social media for political debate - it is (usually ) uncontrolled. Using it to inspire social change is another discussion :-)
I am limited in how much I can read until I get to my laptop so I will read everyones posts later today.
Sandra wrote: "Peggy wrote: "I did want to say something else about the Notre Dame donations. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great people contribute to the restoration, but those 100-200 million euro donations ..."Very true Sandra, it's very complicated and you can't just put 200 million in some bank account and then hope to solve all kinds of issues in the world. I also didn't want to be too harsh, as I hadn't researched whether those business people did other things for good causes as well. And the article explains why it happens like this, so I can understand why it is the way it is, but still think it's a shame too.
Reading your post Travis upset me. I will not be watching those videos. I have a very visual imagination so I already have a good idea of what they entail from your post. I can imagine how you must feel having watched that but also being involved in the farming industry and seeing practices like that. I've watched a lot of horrific videos over the years on animal cruelty and have got to the stage now of "been there, done that" so tend to avoid them now.Sorry to hear about the elections Janice. Seems the whole world is going crazy. Why are all the stupid people in charge? I just don't get how that happens! thought that countries were making progress on animal and human rights, more equality, better conditions, better health care and welfare systems etc etc. And now it's all being undone.
Peggy wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Peggy wrote: "I did want to say something else about the Notre Dame donations. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great people contribute to the restoration, but those 100-200 million ..."Yes, the unbalance is huge. First world countries waste tons and tons of food in perfect state while people starve to death every day, for example. But it is so, so, so complex that I am not even sure how you even start solving this...
I saw somewhere something about the US going to donate money towards Notre Dame. Whoever posted the article then commented something about Flint and something else. I can't remember but it ties to what Peggy is saying. There are people upset the government will give another country money for a church but they wont fix the water problem in Flint Michigan. Flint has been an issue for years and the government won't change those lead pipes. I think lead is the issue. Correct me if anyone knows
Then a guy was arrested walking into St Patrick's cathedral in NYC with 2 gas cans last night. I don't know if Notre Dame is officially listed arson but I hope it's not becoming a trend to arson these old churches
Maybe some in here don't know so I'm not going to be like can you believe these morons because it's just people who aren't familiar with why we do things not morons. I'm just surprised by how many people get mad at cows wearing eartags and then are surprised we keep records. I like how one farmer described an ear tags being a social security number. We need the number to keep track of lineage to prevent inbreeding but also the family history is on record and the company I buy semen from matches my cow families with bulls to put the best genetics together. Also if a cow is treated it's recorded or if a cow is sent to slaughter and some residue is found not only is proper identification how they find the farmer but it may not be your cow. Sale barns have messed up paper word and tag numbers that they put on the cow but as long as the animal has a tag specific to your farm you also can prove your innocence. I have a 21 tag that is soecific to my farm and an 840 tag that is a USDA # specific to me. I don't know how you trace it but somewhere there's a computer where if you put either one of those tag numbers in it will tell you my name, address, state etc.Names are cute and all but it's a pain to organize paperwork by names. Paperwork which both a cow number and birthdate in sequential order is much easier. I let the kids name and I try to write the name on the ear tag but I remember numbers better than names. Even with people I'm horrible with names.
You can order 840 tags which has the 15 digit USDA name and custom print a name or I think they have a blank tag option to write a name on. If a farm does want only names. In that case the 840 number really only gets used if aninal is sold.
Really eartags are like a sports player having a number.
This wasn't meant to be a rant I hope it didn't come across as one.
Travis wrote: "I saw somewhere something about the US going to donate money towards Notre Dame. Whoever posted the article then commented something about Flint and something else. I can't remember but it ties to..."
So far it is still being treated as an accident, but still under investigation, of course. Some other churches in Paris have suffered attacks in the last months, but all of them minor issues. A month ago, though, Saint-Suplice caught fire too. It is the church used to film Da Vinci Code, and the origin is still under investigation as far as I know. Still, the fire in Notre Dame started in the roof, far from public access, so I guess that if it was intentional we are talking about something else completely.
I understand people from other countries not agreeing with public money being donated to France for this. It makes sense to me. My point was more about private funds.
Person to point at with private funds is Floyd Mayweather. Stupid rich. Throws money around. Literally he carries like $100,000 in a bag every where he goes and sometimes just throws it at people. Anyway it has not gone unnoticed that Floyd is from Michigan. Rich enough to probably fix the water in Flint by himself. People are upset he blows money and won't at least set up a Flint fund. If he started something other celebrities would probably step up and Flint could have their water fixed
It's also just how people work, I guess. When some natural disaster happens, many people donate money to help those affected. Because it's all over the news, we see the people without their homes, who have to live in shelters, who lost loved ones. This is similar to the Notre Dame, which is also a very shocking event to many people. The western-world poverty is a much longer-lasting issue that doesn't receive that much attention and doesn't have the same shock-value and horrific images, and people just care less. Same with wars, they also often don't raise as much money, especially not when they last for a long time. Or with the stuff going on in Venezuela, I recently read that donations for that cause are way behind compared to other fundraisers, simply because it doesn't receive as much attention.So I think this is not just an issue of those billionaires, but people in general. It's just that with those billionaires donating so much money, they kind of jump out.
Like Tupac said 20+ years ago. We got money for wars but can't feed the poor...
Travis wrote: "I saw somewhere something about the US going to donate money towards Notre Dame. Whoever posted the article then commented something about Flint and something else. I can't remember but it ties to..."
Puerto Rico is the one I saw. The fact that after the hurricane last year some parts of the island, which is an US territory , didn't have power for 12 months.
Yup we basically crapped on Puerto Rico too
Yes, Puerto Rico's is a shame. @Peggy, that is another good point. The impact makes the people care and move, but we have a high tolerance for pain and suffering that we know is happening but we don't have to see if we don't have too.
I have noticed that here in Europe the situation in Venezuela is not really visible. Well, I am talking of France mostly. Not sure everywhere else. In the US appears in the news more often, but it is still not big deal. In Argentinian and Uruguayan newspapers there are news about Venezuela every day. It is reasonable. It is a matter of the impact that has in the different countries.
Venezuela had important fundraising at the beginning, but the fact that Maduro's people burned down a couple of trucks with food and medicines when they tried to cross the border didn't help. People is not that willing to help now. Or just doesn't know how to do it.
One good thing I saw is that people have seen the donations coming in to rebuild Notre Dame and have started donating locally. There were 2 or 3 churches in Louisiana that were intentionally burned down and people have started donating to have them rebuilt. Sad that it takes something like this to get it started, but at least those local churches and people will also be helped.
Travis wrote: "Like Tupac said 20+ years ago. We got money for wars but can't feed the poor..."Very true words, unfortunately.
Sandra wrote: "Yes, Puerto Rico's is a shame. @Peggy, that is another good point. The impact makes the people care and move, but we have a high tolerance for pain and suffering that we know is happening but we ..."
Doesn't get much news coverage here either. It's mentioned on the news of course, and news websites have items on it, but nothing compared to other crises.
Favorite tweet of the dayDear people and folks with All The Money. Act like the world is on fire Everyday!
Kristie wrote: "One good thing I saw is that people have seen the donations coming in to rebuild Notre Dame and have started donating locally. There were 2 or 3 churches in Louisiana that were intentionally burned..."That's good to hear, Kristie.
@Kristie, that is good to hear.@Travis, loved that twit. :)
On a lighter note, has anyone got any nice plans for the Easter weekend? Lovely sunny weather is forecast for the UK which makes a change. It usually rains over these long weekends. We are going to a bird of prey centre in the Cotswolds tomorrow, on Saturday we are hoping to go to some local point-to-point racing, on Easter Sunday we are planning on going for a walk in a local bluebell wood and then will probably spend the rest of the day chilling in the garden, and on Monday we might go the cinema.
Well on Saturday we are having surprise birthday party for my grandma who just turned 90 and her sister in law, my great aunt, who just turned or is about to turn 95 years young. Both still live at home and drive and the whole 9
Travis - I liked your cow tag post. I always wondered what the tags were for and it makes a lot of sense for your record keeping.
The weather will be lovely this weekend here too! Saturday we have 'family day' with my dad's side of the family, which is only 11 adults and 3 small children. We're going to do a lunch at home first, then a team game and a high beer/wine at another location. Then back home for a bite to eat if we're still hungry and some more drinks. On sunday easter lunch with the in-laws.
On Monday we plan to work in the garden for a bit.
I have tomorrow off too but no specific plans.
Travis wrote: "Well on Saturday we are having surprise birthday party for my grandma who just turned 90 and her sister in law, my great aunt, who just turned or is about to turn 95 years young. Both still live at..."Happy Birthday to your grandma and great aunt, Travis!
I've got a 2 hour yoga workshop on Saturday that I'm looking forward to. Then on Sunday, my son is coming for Easter dinner and possibly my grandson.
No plans at the moment other than moving the boat and having a bbq.
My daughter and her son get home from their 3 week Italy trip late Saturday night. I think I am supposed to provide the Easter basket goodies for the 9yo I have been taking care of for the last 10 days. I will be so glad to go home and sleep in my own bed that I might sleep all day Sunday.
Lisa wrote: "On a lighter note, has anyone got any nice plans for the Easter weekend? Lovely sunny weather is forecast for the UK which makes a change. It usually rains over these long weekends. We are going to..."I have tomorrow off... no specific plan.... the forecast says that it will rain all weekend. At least the snow is melting... (Outside exists yeah!!!)
Saturday, there is a tea festival here and Sunday I have a brunch with my family.
And the current round of sock madness ends tomorrow evening, so there is the possibility that I will be knitting through it all.
Heart broken for the 29 year old journalist shot in the north of Ireland last night. I don't understand who this so-called republican group think that they represent or what they are trying to achieve. I think they trying the increase the divide between communities for their own ends.That are obviously a criminal gang who are funding themselves through the spate of ATM robberies that have been happening in the north. The number of raids since Christmas had already gone into double figures and there were another 4 last night. That is how the bullet that killed that young woman was pain for.
I saw that news a couple of hours ago. Very sad, really.
I heard the news earlier about the journalist. Shocking. And on good friday of all days. Not that they care about the agreement. I don't think it will be the last incident either unfortunately. All the talk of a hard border with brexit has probably stirred them up.
I'm afraid you're right Sarah. I didn't even see the irony of the day that's in it til you pointed it out.Brexit has stirred up a lot of ugliness and now murder.
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You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
Books mentioned in this topic
The Rithmatist (other topics)The Starless Sea (other topics)
The Arsonist: A Mind on Fire (other topics)
The Doll Factory (other topics)
The Binding (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jamie Ford (other topics)Madeline Miller (other topics)
Jamie Ford (other topics)
Madeline Miller (other topics)
Ruta Sepetys (other topics)
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I know China is of a different culture and have different beliefs but how can you have such disrespect for a life. I have a whole binder I have to fill out on all things on what I do for animal welfare and it also has acceptable things for housing, treatment, medicating etc. Including a page of 3 acceptable ways for us to euthanize an animal. China's methods are not even listed as unacceptable let alone acceptable. They're so horrible my animal welfare binder doesn't even touch on such cruelty because I don't know anyone who would consider doing such things