08/18 Chapters 30-33 (Part V)

[Zulfiya]

All right, guys, following your suggestions, I will try to implement them in this thread. First - a one-liner summary, and then neutral questions.

I will post my thoughts in the next post to distance my opinion from the opening thread.


Revelations and sensuality of Jenny's pregnancy - getting settled to look like laids - the story of Jamie's bible - the birth - Jenny and Claire are looking for Jamie.


1. What are your impressions of the description of pregnancy provided by Jenny? Is it romantic, inspiring , down-to-earth, bold?

2. Claire does not strike me as a religious person, but Jamie is. Is her religious because of his true convictions or is it because people at that time did not have a choice due to strong peer pressure, not conducive to free thinking environment, and lack of knowledge?

3. Is the episode with birth relevant/irrelevant. Is it symbolic? If yes, what do you think the role of this episode in the novel?

4. Jenny turned out to be a woman of particular resilience and strength. Is it was makes those two siblings? Do you blame her for leaving the child with the nurse while they were looking for Jamie?

Guys, following our discussion in the previous thread, be advised. If there are no pertinent posts in this thread about the novel - I mean specific comments about this part of the novel, next week on Monday I will be posting an overall discussion thread because either our participants have read the book prior to discussion or finished while we are reading or read it some time ago or gave up on the book. Anyway, the discussion of the book is not happening. If it continues, there is no point in wasting time and breath and posting weekly threads, just one thread as a general discussion thread.

[Zulfiya]

Despite the sensuality of the description given by Jennie, I consider it the only positive moment in this part so far. Other episodes do not seem to be relevant. I do not know why it was important for us to witness Jennie's labor - she did not die, neither is the baby stillborn. I am not trying to be harsh and rude, but the only thing that happened is the delay that affected Jamie and Claire, but then why the detailed description? The novel is not about the triumph of life, and that biologically very significant moment for family and parents is hardly relevant to us, readers.

Surprisingly, Claire's medical knowledge of herbal medicine does not shine in this chapter. She seems to be quite selective about it.

The story of Jamie's bible is quite touching, but I still find his faith very naive and childish. I am not trying to offend Christians and Christinanity in general here - I am talking about the tenets that Jamie developed and hold dear to himself. His faith is not the inner philosophy of life as for some thinkers, but a ritual that is palliative in its nature and an attribute of the society he belongs to.

3. And yes, Jennie is extremely resilient,and I can not say it is not believable - work after labor was a wide-spread practice at that time, but the description of her breasts bursting with milk seems to be totally irrelevant. Is Gabaldon educating future mothers? If it had been some serious stuff, I would suspect some gender-bender between the two, thus sparking some eroticism and speculations, but alas, we know it is not true as the novel is pretty straightforward in all meanings of this word.

[Andrea]

Thanks Zulfiya for posting the quick summary, it's really helpful. From what I remember about the chapters I had mixed feelings about the whole episode with Jennie. On one hand I enjoyed her as a character and how she added to that of Jamie and his past. But on the other hand, I have to agree, what was her contribution to the story? Perhaps Gabaldon wanted to reflect on Claire's inability to have children? To make Jamie reconsider his attitude about it as well? From what I gathered, even though he wasn't showing it, he was pretty upset about his wife not getting pregnant soon after the wedding. By the end of the labour scene, it's pretty easy to tell that the man was mortified.

I have to admit I liked that little intimate moment between Jennie and her husband. It was as if the whole world faded away for the two of them. Romance or not, that tug on my heartstrings a bit. I don't have the book to confirm if the scene happened specifically in these chapters, but I know we must be beyond that point.

And Claire's medical knowledge? For being such a hardcore nurse during one of the most horrific wars in history, she sure seems to forget it at times.

P.S. I'm actually kind of looking forward to some discussion for the coming up chapters. They are quite ridiculous in my opinion and made laugh out loud. I'd be okay with a general discussion thread though.

[Zulfiya]

I read ahead - I have not finished yet, but there were a lot of episodes that were ... entertaining, to say the least.

[Andrea]

I should also probably mention that I watched the first episode of the show finally. I thought the tv version shewed a much closer relationship between Claire and Frank, which I quite liked. It's true that they spent a lot of time on 1945, but the setting was beautiful, the costumes elegant, so I was not complaining. To tell the truth I was greatly impressed by cinematography. I thought the director did a great job. It's still hard to tell if writers somehow outperformed Gabaldon.

I'm also itching to ask a question about the beginning of the book, but I need to wait until everyone finishes (there is a reason for that). I'm just so confused about one little scene from 1945 that I can't find explanation to. The book seemed to never answer my question.

[Paula]

I was looking through the bookshelf of a group I just joined and I saw they read Outlander last year. Most went into it with enthusiasm, but quickly became bored with it. I saw one comment of particular interest...the reader said there should really be a new category of book she called the "historical soap opera"...contrived plots, silly, unbelievable coincidences, terrible dialogue and cardboard characters. My opinion only, but this described Outlander perfectly for me. In that bucket, I would also drop in Fall of Giants. I probably disliked Fall more because, really, Follett used to write better than this. Before his medieval trilogy, that is. I only read Pillars before I donated it and Fall to my local library.

I know I sound harsh, but if you are going to write 900+ page novels, you should have something interesting or amazingly entertaining to say. A 900 page potboiler is overkill - 250 pages should suffice. But what do I know? Both authors tap dance all the way to the bank and they have millions of readers who love their stuff.

I'm not saying that every group read has to be a DQ (heaven forbid) but there should be enough in the book to keep a discussion going. As I said before, if anyone could have kept a discussion going, it is Zulfiya, but there just wasn't anything to say. At the end of the day, this should have been a 250 page book enjoyably lapped up along with a bowl of ice cream or a bag of chips.

[Sandra]

I've been on a three week cruise to Norway (got back last night), so I'm way behind with Outlander. I was listening to it on audio when I left, so I'll pick it back up tomorrow. I like it so far. My hubby (stayed home as the cruise was with my step mother who paid for it) taped the new tv series for me, so I'll watch it today.

How about reading Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset as a group read?

[JoLene]

I also watched the series and agree that the relationship seemed less stilted on the show. I loved the scenery as well.

[Zulfiya]

Sandra wrote: "
How about reading Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset as a group read?
"


Sandra, we are nominating new books right now for our current modern chunkster, and it is a themed read - World War I.

The nomination thread is here https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It also contains a couple of links that contain lists of fiction and non-fiction about WWI.

I hope you will peruse through the lists and nominate the book you would like to read with the group.

As for Outlander, the threads are posted, and I am really interested in our readers' opinions. There were very few voices so far that were clearly heard.