Ulysses Pre-Read Discussion

[W.D.]

This is where we can discuss guidebooks, editions, or whatever you want

[George]

Ulysses read??!!?

[W.D.]

Yes, a few of us were thinking of doing just that, Georgie, you in?

[George]

Hmm, sounds good, and I would like to read again, and would be nice to travel through Dublin with others for a day. Will it be just a read at own pace, or you thinking of a plan?

[W.D.]

We were going to make a SLOW plan... 5pp a day or about a chapter a week? Just spitballing here at this point...

[George]

That sounds like a good plan.

[Atefeh]

starting today?

[W.D.]

No we need a plan first. We were thinking January?

[W.D.]

This is where Kris steps in and dispels chaos with ordnung!

[Atefeh]

Sure, I think you the veterans will be better at making a plan.

[W.D.]

Atefeh wrote: "Sure, I think you the veterans will be better at making a plan."

Veterans?! Is this ageism we're talking about now? Where's a moderator when you need one?!

[George]

So I have the Oxford Classic edition and I'm thinking I might read a chapter, for example, then read the corresponding annotations to that chapter in the Ulysses Annotated (Gilford) guide, then re-read the chapter, and so on with each chapter.

Thoughts?

[W.D.]

Yes, would one chapter a week suit you then?

[George]

A chapter a week seems like a splendid plan.

[W.D.]

ok, we'll be busy until nigh May day, comrades!

[W.D.]

George, are you deputized to speak for George?

[George]

Which George is that directed to?

[George]

I’m not sure if I’m deputized to speak for this George.

[George]

Not really sure what to expect with this novel, but I could do a chapter a week.

Part of me wonders how difficult can it really be. For example, compared to the hype, Infinite Jest was a breeze. But I'm guessing this situation will be different.

I've read Portrait of the Artist, so I'm not completely in the dark here.

[Uday]

Hi all! As it happens, I'm halfway through Anna Karenina right now, and aiming to finish before 2019 begins, but I'm not sure whether I'll follow it up with Ulysses. Just give me some time, and I'll keep you posted?

[Nathan "N.R."]

George wrote: "So I have the Oxford Classic edition and I'm thinking I might read a chapter, for example, then read the corresponding annotations to that chapter in the Ulysses Annotated (Gilford) guide, then re-..."

Almost! ...what I did. But I did that on the paragraph level. There are a lot of annotations. I did the same with the Wake but added a few more rereadings of the paragraph. I know in the Wake the unit of writing was very much the paragraph ; don't recall Ulysses being quite so paragraph oriented ; but the kind of thing you suggest there provided me with just about the right pace of reading, moving forward quickly enough, but enough time to dawdle as well.,

[Atefeh]

W.D. wrote: "Atefeh wrote: "Sure, I think you the veterans will be better at making a plan."

Veterans?! Is this ageism we're talking about now? Where's a moderator when you need one?!"

Oh no I take back what I said, you should get used to my broken english:) so are we going to start next week? I'm on the same page with George, not exactly in the dark and not exactly knowing what to expect, but I guess reading a chapter a week with annotations seems doable, although I don't know how many pages are we talking about in each chapter.

[W.D.]

Uday wrote: "Hi all! As it happens, I'm halfway through Anna Karenina right now, and aiming to finish before 2019 begins, but I'm not sure whether I'll follow it up with Ulysses. Just give me some time, and I'l..."

Great to hear from you, sir! I hope you can join us in this!

[W.D.]

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "..I did that on the paragraph level. There are a lot of annotations. "

Yeah, a WHOLE lot in the Gifford, so para to para is the way to go with perhaps a synoptic re-read of the chapter after that!

[W.D.]

Smart guy Edwin Turner (Biblioklept) on a first trip through Ulysses (though I disagree with him on the obtrusiveness of guides like Gifford's -- I think it is a matter of your personal reading style whether you like LOTS of annotations or not):

https://biblioklept.org/2010/06/16/ho...

[W.D.]

Atefeh wrote: "Oh no I take back what I said, you should get used to my broken english?!"

Haha just kidding!
OK, here's the pp breakdown of the Gabler edition (the other editions have almost twice the pages I think), though someone should probably check my math. We could do 1 chapter a week, or combine some of the shorter ones and stick to 5pp a day. One chapter is 150pp but it is a dialogue and if I remember (which I don't, really) it reads faster than some others.

1 3-19 = 16pp
2 20-30 = 10pp
3 31-42 = 11pp
4 45-57 = 12pp
5 58-71 = 13pp
6 72-95 = 23pp
7 96-123 = 27pp
8 124-150 = 26pp
9 151-179 = 28pp
10 180-209 = 29pp
11 210-239 = 29pp
12 240-283 = 43pp
13 284-313 = 29pp
14 314-349 = 25pp
15 350-500 = 150pp
16 501-543 = 42pp
17 544-607 = 63pp
18 608-644 = 36pp

[Atefeh]

these youngsters with no sense of humor:))
ah thanks, and as for the guide so you suggest Gifford annotations?

[W.D.]

Atefeh wrote: "these youngsters with no sense of humor:))
ah thanks, and as for the guide so you suggest Gifford annotations?"
Yes, the Gifford and the Blamires Bloomsday compliment each other well!

[Kris]

Hi Bill and all -- sorry for not being on the thread sooner -- I've been doing some holiday traveling.

Bill, would you like me to create the discussion threads like I did for The Odyssey read, based on the pages you specify in message 26?

[Justin]

Uh, if we are taking baby steps through this I’d probably be in after the holidays.

[W.D.]

Justin wrote: "Uh, if we are taking baby steps through this I’d probably be in after the holidays."

We be toddler trotting Justin! Definitely no sooner than New Years, and if need be we can put off discussion of Ch 1 till the week after J01.

[W.D.]

Kris wrote: "Hi Bill and all -- sorry for not being on the thread sooner -- I've been doing some holiday traveling.

Bill, would you like me to create the discussion threads like I did for The Odyssey read, ba..."

Yes please, Kris!! Question: Do we combine shorter chapters or break up long ones (5pp per day of Gabler gobbling) , or just go with one week per chapter?

Have a great holiday, y'all

[Kris]

Hmmm—I’ll look over where the page breaks fall in longer chapters to see if there are logical breaks in 25-35 page sections. I think for the shorter chapters we should have one thread for each. That will make it easy for people to comment when they finish a chapter.

[W.D.]

Kris wrote: "Hmmm—I’ll look over where the page breaks fall in longer chapters to see if there are logical breaks in 25-35 page sections. I think for the shorter chapters we should have one thread for each. Tha..."

Good call Kris!

[Mark]

I would like to be involved with a re-read. I'll be using a '61 Random House paperback. I also have a Dover Publications reprint of the 1922 Shakespeare + Co. original. As far as reading difficulty: the first 8 chapters are the easiest. The next 5 (9-13) are more difficult. And the last 5, which comprise half the book are very hard. As far as reading aids the best book I've ever read is Stanley Sultan's 1964 The Argument of Ulysses. Gifford's Annotated is good for rivers and mountains and operas and scores. The least helpful books for me are the Blamires and the Kiberd.

[W.D.]

Mark wrote: "I would like to be involved with a re-read. I'll be using a '61 Random House paperback. I also have a Dover Publications reprint of the 1922 Shakespeare + Co. original. As far as reading difficulty..."

Welcome Aboard sir. You might well be our tour guide!

[Mark]

If anyone is interested, I have a partially complete reading outline for Ulysses at the group site James Joyce Symposium under the heading: Re-reading Ulysses.

[Mark]

W.D. wrote: "Mark wrote: "I would like to be involved with a re-read. I'll be using a '61 Random House paperback. I also have a Dover Publications reprint of the 1922 Shakespeare + Co. original. As far as readi..."
Thank you, W.D. I'm ready! - ) "The Magical Mystery Tour is waiting to take you away."

[George]

Is the Gabler edition going to be the main one, or can we chose an edition for our liking? I have read the Gabler does not represent Joyce’s vision as he may have liked. One thing specific that comes to mind is the big period at the end of one chapter, which the Gabler shrinks, and Joyce wanted it big for a reason. I have the edition as is seemed to be the one most “scholars” like, but I read the vintage 1961 corrected.

[W.D.]

George wrote: "Is the Gabler edition going to be the main one, or can we chose an edition for our liking? "

We be free here, sir! Free we be. I have the Gabler, and am thinking of buying either the 1922 or 1961 as well :)

I must say, a local friend has the hardcover Modern Library from the 1960s, and it is one handsome devil. The difference being, it would be a lot easier to have that in your lap for reading, whereas the Gabler has plenty of margin space for writing in notes, but is a pain to hold--best read at a desk

[George]

I didn’t think you would police as like the Stasi. I will probably read from both to see which I prefer, but Vintage always puts out quality books, and I love the font they use.

[Mark]

I think the '61 Random House paperback is the most comfortable reading copy: the size, the weight, and especially the very handsome re-set type. Though the number of changes and/or corrections that different editions claimed to have made are extensive; the overall effect on the individual reader is negligible.

[Mark]

George wrote: "Not really sure what to expect with this novel, but I could do a chapter a week.

Part of me wonders how difficult can it really be. For example, compared to the hype, Infinite Jest was a breeze. B..."

Hi George! The hype about the difficulty of reading and understanding Ulysses is completely untrue. Once you master identifying the internal monologues it's no harder to read then Faulkner or Dostoyevsky.

[Mark]

W.D. wrote: "Atefeh wrote: "Oh no I take back what I said, you should get used to my broken english?!"

Haha just kidding!
OK, here's the pp breakdown of the Gabler edition (the other editions have almost twic..."
Just for comparison sake, the pagination from a '61 R.H.
Chapters I - VIII (1-183) = 183.
Chapters IX - XIII (184-382) = 198.
Chapters XIV - XVI (383-665) = 282.
Chaapters XVII + XVIII (666-783) = 117.

[George]

Mark wrote: "George wrote: "Not really sure what to expect with this novel, but I could do a chapter a week.

Part of me wonders how difficult can it really be. For example, compared to the hype, Infinite Jest ..."

Thanks for the input, Mark! I guess I'll find out for myself soon enough (after later enough).

[Mark]

Cool! We have an interesting group forming. It's going to be a lot of fun.

[Mark]

READING ULYSSES FOR FUN
https://youtu.be/tp8RXSUIB3g

COMMENTS

"In short, it (Ulysses) is not Romance, not a joke, not a spiritual guide not even an encyclopedia of social disintegration or a re-creation of Myth or a Symbolist poem; it is a novel, and what is of permanent interest about it is what always interests us with the novel: its imaginative illumination of the moral - and ultimately, spiritual - experience of representative human beings."
(From the Introduction to The Argument of Ulysses by Stanley Sultan, page 29-30.)

"Ulysses must not be approach as though it was a novel written in a traditional manner, all preconceptions must be set aside and we must follow wherever the author leads us and let the language tell us what it has to say without our troubling whether language is being used 'properly' or not."
(From the Introduction to James Joyce, The Norton Anthology to English Literature, Fifth Edition, Volume II, page 2023.)


OUTLINE

In the middle of the Library chapter Stephen introduces four words: protasis, epitasis, catastasis, catastrophe, which, when translated, describe the four parts of a classical Greek drama: introduction, development, climax and resolution. I assigned the 18 Ulysses chapters, in outline, according to their function: giving an initial distribution: 8.5.3.2. Further sub-dividing the chapters in the first two groups, to separate Stephen's actions from Bloom's, gives a final scheme with six sections: 3.5.2.3.3.2. The titles for the six sections are my own. The pagination is from a 1961 Random House paperback.

Ulysses divides physically and dramatically into two almost equal parts. The first 13 chapters, the Introduction and Development, run 382 pages and are the daytime events; and the final 5 chapters, the Climax and Resolution, cover 400 pages and occur at night.

Commentators often describe Ulysses as having each chapter written in a different style. I see only three: the original (1-8), the modified (9-13), and the extreme (14-18).

INTRODUCTION(8)
I. Paris Stephen: 1-3
Telemachus - Nestor - Proteus
(51)
II. Meet the Blooms: 4-8
Calypso - Lotus Eaters - Hades - Aeolus - Lestrygonians
(130)
DEVELOPMENT (5)
III. Stephen's Dilemma: 9+10
Scylla and Charybdis - Wandering Rocks
(71)
IV. Trials of Bloom: 11-13
Sirens - Cyclops - Nausicaa
(126)
CLIMAX (3)
V. The Party: 14-16
Oxen of the Sun - Circe - Eumaeus
(282)
RESOLUTION (2)
VI. Home: 17+18
Ithaca - Penelope
(117)

[George]

I listened to a podcast, Rejoyce hosted by Frank Delaney (RIP) that was a very good swim through Ulysses. He started off doing one page per podcast, and moved longer episodes. He passed away before completing, but it was a nice treat. Not sure if anyone else has listened, and he used The Gabler edition for his read along. Thought I would share. Cheers.

[Mark]

Hi George. Yes. I looked at the Delaney once before. Maybe I will look again. Thanks for the idea.

[Ashley]

Boo! 'Tis I, the ghost of Goodreads Past, and sometime moderator of this here goodship. Popped on to say hello and I'm in.