Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

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Serieses! > Request to add to series numbering

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message 1: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Has the novella ever been published separately? If it has only been published as part of another book, it should not have a separate listing here.


message 2: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments rivka wrote: "Has the novella ever been published separately? If it has only been published as part of another book, it should not have a separate listing here."

Most of them end up being provided in other methods eventually, and she writes so many that play a role in the overarching story that it would be a disservice to the readers to remove them from the series listing. Most readers want to read all of them, and to do so, they have to know they exist.

As a huge fan of Seanan McGuire (and someone who has attempted to help provide said information to readers, even though I'm not the one who added the strangely number novellas/short stories), I really think we, as Librarians, should be helping readers have all the information to get maximum enjoyment out of the series.


message 3: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments Also, Seanan commissioned separate special cover art for the novella.


message 4: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments Oh, also, the novella isn't included in other formats, and many readers who read the audio (where the novella isn't included) weren't even aware that there was a novella available.

I'd say it's our duty to provide the best possible information. Isn't that what Librarians of any sort are for anyways?


message 5: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Goodreads policy is that novellas are only listed separately if they were sold (or otherwise distributed, such as being available for free download from an author's site) separately.


message 6: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments I understand Goodreads policy, but it’s silly to reduce exposure both for an author and a reader. I also think the policy was intended to prevent short stories or novellas that are in anthologies from being listed separately from the book. This isn’t an anthology. The author has commissioned and provided cover art for the novella, which signals potential future intent to provide separately, and thus would be silly to delete it now and add it back later.
Most readers wouldn’t know the novella existed if it weren’t listed separately, so removing it would reduce the number of readers of the story and hurt the author, neither of which is in line with the mission of Goodreads.

Policy is a good thing to have, but it’s not law, and when it comes to providing more access for books, that’s the whole purpose of Goodreads. So in my opinion, leaving the novella on the series list is the most beneficial to the author, to the publishers, and to the readers that Goodreads is dedicated to serve.


message 7: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Policy is not law, and discussions about policies are fine. However, Goodreads Librarians who consistently ignore policies they disagree with are likely to find themselves no longer Goodreads Librarians.

Thank you for confirming the publication status of this item. I am working on cleaning up the series now.


message 8: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments rivka wrote: "Policy is not law, and discussions about policies are fine. However, Goodreads Librarians who consistently ignore policies they disagree with are likely to find themselves no longer Goodreads Libra..."

I don't "consistently ignore policies" and thought I was having an adult conversation about the benefits of providing information to readers.

You could have said something kind, like "I understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately, that's just not how the policy works right now. We could make some notes in other places to indicate to readers. I'd hate for more readers to miss out! Thanks so much for your passion for helping."

Instead of treating me like a person that is allowed to have an opinion, you went the rude and disrespectful route and threatened me unnecessarily. I spend my valuable and limited free time providing Goodreads with free labor. I share books AND the Goodreads platform as often as I possibly can. If Goodreads doesn't value that, then maybe my time spent in service as a Librarian isn't valued at all. If an opinion, discussed in a librarian forum, with the end goal of doing what's best for the reader is enough to get my Librarian status taken away, then fine, go ahead.

I'll go brush up on policies again, because clearly some changes have been made since I last read them - I don't recall anything specifically stating that novellas need to be published and distributed separately, but I haven't read the policies again since earlier this year, but regardless of all of this, I do believe that I am owed an apology.


message 9: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
I was not referring to any specific person or persons with that phrase. It was a general statement.


message 10: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments rivka wrote: "I was not referring to any specific person or persons with that phrase. It was a general statement."

Oh please, let's not be ridiculous here. If you are involved with Goodreads, you're a reader, and we all know the concept of a "veiled threat."


message 11: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
This group is a public one, and most threads have many readers other than those who post. It was a general statement, as befits this public forum.

Librarians who need specific warnings receive them privately.


message 12: by Marzie (new)

Marzie | 28 comments May I inquire about the deletion of author-published content? At least one of the author’s self published stories is now deleted?


message 13: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments rivka wrote: "This group is a public one, and most threads have many readers other than those who post. It was a general statement, as befits this public forum.

Librarians who need specific warnings receive the..."


Well then, I hope that those other readers can see how Goodreads allows its people, whether employed or appointed volunteer, to treat those who spend their time helping out for free. Regardless of what you intended, it came across as a threat. And regardless of the threat, your posts were both rude and condescending, neither of which are good customer service, good leadership, or encouraging to other users.

I can see I won't be getting an apology. I guess I should have assumed as much, based off of your other responses. I am a little disturbed to see quite a few of the author's separately published and distributed Patreon stories missing off the series page now. Hopefully you didn't remove those from countless reader's read shelves, messing up their tracking of the series and their Goodreads Reading Challenges.

I'm all done with this conversation, as your actions have completely soured my mood. Good day to you.


Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4569 comments Marzie wrote: "May I inquire about the deletion of author-published content? At least one of the author’s self published stories is now deleted?"

Hi Marzie

I would start a separate thread. The op was deleted on this one, but it does look like it was originally tied to a specific novella.


message 15: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments Christmas Carol ꧁꧂ wrote: "Marzie wrote: "May I inquire about the deletion of author-published content? At least one of the author’s self published stories is now deleted?"

Hi Marzie

I would start a separate thread. The op..."


Yes Carol, the original post was Marzie's. It was about a specific novella, which didn't comply with policy since it wasn't published separately and was included in the back of a novel. Unfortunately, it appears many of the Patreon stories have been removed as well - all of which are separately published and distributed and therefore were within policy to be added as they were.


message 16: by Marzie (new)

Marzie | 28 comments Carol, I perhaps ill-advisedly deleted my comments to step away from a dispute between librarians and because I was hoping to stop getting noticed about the squabble. In the interim, at least a half dozen of the author's self-published stories have been deleted from Goodreads. These stories are published on the Patreon platform, often of novella length, and while Rivka stated that free stories, novellas from the author's website are valid, paying for a story on Patreon is no different from paying for a story or novella on the Kindle platform or SmartWords, as one is still ***paying*** for the author's published works.

Removal of these items is an immense disservice to the author, her readers, and does not appear to have fallen within the stated reasons for validly removing published works.


message 17: by Steven (last edited Dec 20, 2018 01:03PM) (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments Why are the Patreon short stories being merged into the novels? They are separately published, separately distributed works. I'm absolutely astounded by all of this.

How will any of the readers who don't know to look for the specific title of the Patreon stories be able to find these now?


message 18: by Melanie (last edited Dec 20, 2018 02:32PM) (new)

Melanie (mvalente89) | 1760 comments From threads I've seen in the past, I think it's that Patreon stories aren't considered valid records because they're behind a paywall or require a login to access? Or something along those lines.

ETA: Here's the comment on them I was remembering.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 19: by Steven (new)

Steven (gallifreyan1218) | 48 comments That makes no sense at all. Regular books are behind a paywall of sorts, I either have to buy the book or have a library membership...


message 20: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahsreviews) | 24 comments rivka wrote: "Goodreads policy is that novellas are only listed separately if they were sold (or otherwise distributed, such as being available for free download from an author's site) separately."

Hi Rivka, you state here that “novellas are only listed separately if they were sold”

I PAID FOR ALL OF THE PATREON STORIES so please tell me how they aren’t allowed to be listed on Goodreads? You are directly contradicting your previous comment by removing them all! How many readers need to tell you this makes ZERO sense.

Also I’d like to second every single thing that Steven has said in this thread, I’ve commented about this in several threads now but he makes very valid points about removing these novellas and short stories being a HUGE disservice to both Seanan & her fans!


message 21: by Marzie (new)

Marzie | 28 comments Sarah wrote: "rivka wrote: "Goodreads policy is that novellas are only listed separately if they were sold (or otherwise distributed, such as being available for free download from an author's site) separately."..."

Sarah, I’m so sorry your work was undone. You may want to comment here:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 22: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahsreviews) | 24 comments Thanks Marzie, I've been commenting all over the place about this but I've just added my 2 cents worth to that thread too. This whole thing is bloody ridiculous!


message 23: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
While discussions of policy are welcome in this group, attacking other users is not. Since this thread and the related one seem to have devolved into little more than such attacks, I am closing them.

Any additional threads on this topic will be closed as well.


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