Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Osama bin Laden
This topic is about Osama bin Laden
277 views
MYSTERIOUS DEATHS > Osama Bin Laden -- Does the account of his death remotely add up?

Comments Showing 1-46 of 46 (46 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by James, Group Founder (last edited Dec 07, 2016 06:18AM) (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Excerpt from The Orphan Conspiracies: 29 Conspiracy Theories from The Orphan Trilogy:

Officially, Osama bin Laden died in 2011 in Pakistan – but was that really him? Or was Bin Laden just a fabricated and much-needed bad guy manufactured by the Military Industrial Complex to enable it to legitimately wage the so-called War on Terror?

In the FBI’s Vault records, the following is mentioned on the Muslim leader’s file: “Usama (or Osama) Bin Laden, founder of the al Qaeda terrorist organization, was born in Saudi Arabia in 1957. On March 10, 1984, Bin Laden and others killed two German nationals. On March 16, 1998, authorities in Tripoli issued an arrest warrant for him for murder and illegal possession of firearms. Bin Laden was also wanted for the August 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. He was killed by U.S. forces in May 2011.”

Furthermore, FBI records clearly label Bin Laden as the mastermind of 9/11, and as a result he inherited the mantel of Most Wanted during the War on Terror.

To most in the West – mainstream media included – the US Navy Seals’ termination of Bin Laden in Pakistan is where the terrorist leader’s story ends, but not for any conspiracy theorist worth his or her salt. They would argue there are too many unanswered questions and cute coincidences surrounding the man’s death – and surrounding his life, too, for that matter.

And conspiracy theorists aren’t the only ones raising questions. Media reports throughout the Middle East, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan have been awash with quotes from locals purporting to know the truth about Bin Laden. These reports speculate everything from his dying years earlier, even before 9/11, to still being alive and free today.

The Express Tribune, of Pakistan, reported that polls showed two-thirds of Pakistanis did not believe US reports stating Navy Seals had assassinated Bin Laden, and less than a quarter believed he was responsible for the 2001 terrorist acts on American soil.

More recently, Western media has joined in the speculation. For example, leading UK newspaper The Daily Mail ran an article on February 12, 2014 headed, U.S. special forces ordered the destruction of Osama bin Laden’s death photos two weeks after top secret seek and destroy mission to kill him. And The Wall Street Journal reported that an Egyptian bank manager formerly associated with the Muslim extremist claimed to be certain Bin Laden had died many years before the US announced they’d killed him.

Several prominent American celebrities have also publicly voiced their skepticism surrounding US claims regarding Bin Laden’s demise.

Shortly after Bin Laden’s death was announced, former US Navy Seal Jesse Ventura made an interesting observation in a television interview that aired on CNN in June 2011. He reminded viewers of earlier reports stating “Bin Laden was on a dialysis machine 10 years ago.” Ventura added, “Experts have said the disease he suffered from is generally fatal within two years. How did he manage to survive 10?”

And back in 2007, American hip-hop artist and film star Mos Def appeared on Real Time with Bill Maher where he called Bin Laden a “boogeyman” and implied his whole existence was nothing more than a fabrication by the US Government to blame 9/11 on.

But let’s return to the crux of the story...After more than a decade of failing to find Bin Laden, suddenly he’s tracked, located and then killed? All in one evening? And on top of that, there’s not one shred of evidence to prove any of this occurred?

As President Barack Obama and his team of intelligence advisors watched real-time footage of Bin Laden’s termination in the comfort of the White House’s situation room, it was reported the then-director of the US National Counterterrorism Center, Michael Leiter, was first to speak. Apparently, Leiter said, “Holy shit!”

That’s not all he said, but bear with us. We just want to draw out the suspense a little.

“I don’t need facial recognition,” Leiter reportedly added. “We just killed Bin Laden!”

So clearly, nobody on American soil knew for a fact it was Bin Laden.

What about in Pakistan then? Surely, someone confirmed they’d just taken out the most wanted man on the planet?

Well, you’d think so, wouldn’t you? But this is where it gets a little murky.

After what seemed a surprisingly short period of time, a White House spokesman informed the world’s media that Bin Laden’s body had been flown to the USS Carl Vinson aircraft-carrier in the Arabian Sea where it (the body) was cast overboard in a weighted bag. The spokesman said this was all done “in conformance with Islamic precepts and practices”.

What the...?

Did we hear that right? Instead of keeping evidence in conformance with Western precepts and practices, the United States of America vetoed its own laws and diligently adhered to the customs and religious rituals of the world’s most wanted terrorist and those of the country that harbored him?

Again: What the...?

Remember, the bodies of Saddam Hussein’s sons, Uday and Qusay, were kept for 11 days before finally being buried. America didn’t go out of its way to follow Islamic protocols on that occasion, and nobody in the West complained about that.

But wait, it gets stranger still...

The Obama Administration released an image to the media showing President Obama, Hillary Clinton and other members of the National Security team watching the raid live. According to the Administration, the footage came from a camera attached to a Navy Seal’s helmet. However, this was contradicted when CIA director Leon Panetta emphatically stated the feed had gone dead “for around 20 to 25 minutes” during the raid.

If the CIA director is correct, does that mean the photo of Obama, Clinton and others was staged in order to sell a story? What other conclusion could be drawn?

American anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed on duty in Iraq, also questioned how the US had matched Bin Laden’s DNA with a member of the terrorist’s family in less than 24 hours. “The only proof of Osama being dead again that we were offered,” Sheehan wrote on her Facebook page as CNN reported on May 5, 2011, “was Obama telling us that there was a DNA match between the man killed by the Navy SEALs and OBL. Even if it is possible to get DNA done so quickly, and the regime did have bin Laden DNA lying around a lab somewhere — where is the empirical proof?”

Sheehan concluded her Facebook post, “I am sorry, but if you believe the newest death of OBL, you’re stupid.”

Wikipedia accurately summarizes the persistent conspiracy theory surrounding the terrorist leader as follows: “Doubts about bin Laden’s death were fueled by the U.S. military’s disposal of his body at sea,the decision to not release any photographic or DNA evidence of bin Laden’s death to the public,the contradicting accounts of the incident (with the official story on the raid appearing to change or directly contradict previous assertions),and the 25-minute blackout during the raid on bin Laden’s compound during which a live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the U.S. special forces was cut off”.

Maybe all this smoke around Bin Laden’s demise doesn’t indicate a fire. And maybe all the perceived plot holes were caused by an unfortunate series of coincidences and misunderstandings – the type that lead to conspiracy theories blossoming out of nothing.

Hmmm...Those are big maybes.

The Orphan Conspiracies 29 Conspiracy Theories from The Orphan Trilogy by James Morcan


message 2: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments The infamous photo of President Obama, Hillary Clinton and other members of the National Security team supposedly watching the raid of Osama's compound 'live': http://static.businessinsider.com/ima...

But could this photo be a charade?


message 3: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 8 comments I know of that photo taken of Obama and Clinton watching the NAVY SEALS eliminate bin Laden. I remember seeing the same photo with Clinton photoshopped out of the picture because I heard some people had a problem with a woman being involved.


message 4: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 8 comments If he is alive, it's possible he feels obligated to remain silent or else his life would be in danger.


message 5: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Many people in the Islamic world believe Bin Laden died years earlier...


message 6: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn Injoy (CarolynInjoy) http://www.salon.com/2011/05/08/hasid...

This is a link showing the original photo (staged or not) & one published in an Hasidic newspaper to show Hilary & the other woman photoshopped out of the Situation Room. It had to do with their not posting women's photos ever.

There were many inconsistencies in the reporting of his death. Who knows if that is when or IF he died?


message 7: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments New video: Was Osama Bin Laden's death a hoax? -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/8687...

Worth a look as there are some respected individuals in that video saying Bin Laden's death was staged/faked.


message 8: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments A group poll has just begun on this topic asking: Do you believe the official story of Osama Bin Laden's death was real or staged?

Have your say here: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...


message 9: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal, reports on a funeral notice for Osama bin Laden that was published on December 26, 2001, in the Egyptian newspaper al-Ward: http://www.globalresearch.ca/osama-bi...

Fox News, among various other international mainstream media outlets (including the NY Times, MSNBC etc), also reported on this on Dec 26, 2001 with the headline ‘Bin Laden Already Dead’: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/...

This 2001 Fox article states: “Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.”

------------------------

A 2002 article in The Tribune -- Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen (October 16, 2002) http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtrib...

-------------------------

Testimonial Evidence that Bin Laden Is Dead -- http://www.informationliberation.com/...

In addition to this objective evidence, we had considerable testimony in 2002, from people in position to know, that bin Laden was dead, or probably so. These people included:

• President Musharraf of Pakistan;

• Dale Watson, the head of the FBI’s counterterrorism unit;

• Oliver North, who said: “I'm certain that Osama is dead. . . And so are all the other guys I stay in touch with”;

• President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan;

• Sources within Israeli intelligence, who said that any new messages from bin Laden were “probably fabrications”;

• Sources within Pakistani intelligence, who “confirmed the death of . . . Osama Bin Laden” and “attributed the reasons behind Washington's hiding news on the death of Osama Bin Laden to the desire of the hawks of the American administration to use the issue of al-Qaida and international terrorism to invade Iraq.”

In October 2008, former CIA case officer Robert Baer suggested in passing during an interview on National Public Radio that bin Laden was no longer among the living. When Baer was asked about this, he said: “Of course he’s dead.”

In March of 2009, former Foreign Service officer Angelo Codevilla published an essay in the American Spectator entitled “Osama bin Elvis.” Explaining his title, Codevilla wrote: “Seven years after Osama bin Laden's last verifiable appearance among the living, there is more evidence for Elvis's presence among us than for his.”


message 10: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments The group poll which asked members "Do you believe the official story of Osama Bin Laden's death was real or staged?" is now complete.
Here are the results:

50.9% voted STAGED
27.3% voted REAL
21.8% voted UNSURE

Check out the comments section beneath the poll:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...


message 11: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments :


message 12: by Laureen (new)

Laureen (laureenandersonswfcomau) | 478 comments Ok, I haven't had time to browse through all the hyperbole but my concern is that conspiracy theories have been around since time (as we know it) began. These theories do not seem to take into account the sort of mind that seeks out this information. Are we in fact victims of political or ideological porn?

When faced with hearsay, it can be easy to believe the worst. I operate a small business with my husband and come across all faces of the public. The most difficult are those that are suspicious because of some bad experience they have had in the past. Often this suspicion leads to more problems with doing a good job because the client is pre-programmed to find fault. They do not want to or believe in any explanations as to the difficulties in providing their service but the problems usually stem from a belief that the outcome will be bad. Having said that, we can usually counteract their beliefs by over-servicing at a cost to us because our reputation is paramount.
Yes, there will be those who take advantage of us but it would only amount to 1 per cent if that. Most people are very decent and even those who had suspicions originally become long term customers as trust has been built.

What I am trying to say is that we cannot know the extent of the problems any Government has with making a decision. We have to learn to trust our God given instincts. To take comments from the power-brokers like "of course America was in the war because of the oil". Maybe they were and maybe they weren't. However, my instincts tell me that the world would have been in a much larger mess without the efforts if Western nations.

Both America and Australia were built on emigration at the expense of the native populations and slave labor, and in the case of Australia, on convicts. We are nations that had to fight all the way for freedom of expression. Now some will argue that, in fact, we are not free to say what we believe. Tell that to the people in the world who live under dictators. We have much to be thankful for.

In relation to OBL, maybe his face was unrecognizable after the Seal attack. I trust that what ever America did, it has relieved the world of one more person who sort to have his say by propagating murder of innocent people.

Reading posts on Facebook and taking them as even maybe truth is idiotic. As I have explained before, most people believe in what they want to Believe in. I.e. They have a personal agenda. Those brief comments by the likes of journalists do not disprove what I am trying to say. Even some journalists have an agenda, just like some politicians have an agenda. Yes, we do have to question events but let us not turn it into a public slanging match without knowing how difficult our security systems have to be to protect the way of life we have worked for. Like our customers, we make it more difficult for our leaders to protect us the more we are suspicious of their motives. It appears that we don't even want to know what our leaders are contending with. It is easier to lay blame.

I know which country I want to live in.


message 13: by Lance, Group Founder (last edited Oct 15, 2015 06:48PM) (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments Sorry guys, I forgot to include C's intriguing post from the other Osama (frozen) thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Here is her post:

"I came across this looong article just today, and I have to say that I agree 100% with investigative journalist Seymour Hersh that the government's account of this event is a total 'fabrication'!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/w...

Can't wait until his book is released!

http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Osama-B... "


message 14: by Lance, Group Founder (last edited Oct 16, 2015 12:04AM) (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments And here is C's 2nd post on the subject from another thread (people are posting multiple discussion topics on Osama, so are having to combine them as it's better to have all opinions on one thread):

"from the article~

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/mag...

What was perhaps most shocking of all, though, was that this elaborate narrative was being unspooled not by some basement autodidact but by one of America’s greatest investigative reporters, the man who exposed the massacre of hundreds of Vietnamese civilians in the village of My Lai (1969), who revealed a clandestine C.I.A. program to spy on antiwar dissidents (1974) and who detailed the shocking story of the abuses at Abu Ghraib (2004). Could the bin Laden article be another major Hersh scoop?

As Steve Coll, a New Yorker staff writer and the dean of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, told me, ‘‘You’d want an investigative reporter’s reputation to not be 100 percent right all of the time, but to be mostly right, to be directionally right.’’

Hersh may have been the first journalist to write that a secret informant had steered the United States to bin Laden’s compound, but he was by no means the only one who had heard this rumor. Coll was another. ‘‘In my case, it was described to me as a specific Pakistani officer in the intelligence service,’’ Coll, the author of a Pulitzer Prize-winning book about the C.I.A. and Afghanistan, told me one afternoon in his office at Columbia. ‘‘I even had a name that I’ve been working on for four years.’’

I had posted the Amazon link to the book coming out by Seymour Hersh."


message 15: by C. (last edited Oct 16, 2015 08:06AM) (new)

C. Thanks Lance, I wondered what had happened to my thread ...if I had posted something not allowed, LOL!

I don't think Osama is fictional because I read the wonderful but sad book by his Swiss/Persian sister in law who married an older brother, she met while in college...pre-9/11.

She had added at the end of her book ...after 9/11 that she was shocked that though the US had grounded our own planes, our government allowed the visiting bin Ladin family' jets to fly out! Wouldn't one expect the government to keep the suspect's family members here, for questioning, if nothing else?

Inside The Kingdom: My Life In Saudi Arabia


message 16: by James, Group Founder (last edited Oct 16, 2015 04:21PM) (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments C. wrote: "Thanks Lance, I wondered what had happened to my thread ...if I had posted something not allowed, LOL!

I don't think Osama is fictional because I read the wonderful but sad book by his Swiss/Persi..."


Yeah, Osama is not/was not fictional. But his supposed masterminding of 9/11 probably was fictional or at least carried out in collusion with rogue Western interests (which fits with the 'Inside Job' you allude to with the US government allowing the Bin Laden family in America to fly out after 9/11 and not keep them as suspects). At the very least, I tend to agree with what investigative journalist Seymour Hersh implied about the story of his death not adding up at all - that part at least appears to have been fiction.

Interesting that many of these "conspiracy theories" are now being reported seriously by the New York Times etc...As history reveals time and again, what are paranoid delusions in one era become accepted and mainstream concepts in the next era, especially as the older (less open-minded) generations die out...

Not to get all literary, but William Shakespeare wrote centuries ago that "At the length, the truth will out."

In the context of the underreported topics this group investigates, I believe Shakespeare's statement means propaganda and lies can fool a generation or two, but over time and as history becomes clearer, the truth always rises to the surface.

Anyway, I really hope Seymour Hersh doesn't suddenly have a fatal "accident" as tends to happen with many of these independent journalists who find out uncomfortable truths and write about them. Just look at the other posts in this Mysterious Deaths section of the group to see all the other investigative reporters who died on the eve of publishing similarly-themed books.


message 17: by C. (new)

C. I thought exactly the same thing about the safety of Seymour Hersh!

The government has a record of murdering those who air their dirty deeds.

Edward Snowden would not be alive today, if he had remained here.


message 18: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 569 comments I also smelled a rat when they said OBL was killed. It was widely known he died in December 2001. I assumed the scary videos the government kept releasing afterward were fake or, at best, posthumous releases.


message 19: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Jim wrote: "I also smelled a rat when they said OBL was killed. It was widely known he died in December 2001. I assumed the scary videos the government kept releasing afterward were fake or, at best, posthumous releases..."

OBL = Boogeyman?


message 20: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 569 comments Emmanuel Goldstein


message 21: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Jim wrote: "Emmanuel Goldstein"

So Orwell's character was an earlier version of OBL? A necessary enemy for the fascist regime to thrive?


message 22: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 569 comments Somebody should have told the neocons that 1984 was a warning, not a road map.


message 23: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Jim wrote: "Somebody should have told the neocons that 1984 was a warning, not a road map."

Ha! That's funny. And sadly true.


message 24: by C. (new)

C. Jim wrote: "Somebody should have told the neocons that 1984 was a warning, not a road map."

Wow, so true!


message 25: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments James Morcan wrote: "Officially, Osama bin Laden died in 2011 in Pakistan – but was that really him? Or was Bin Laden just a fabricated and much-needed bad guy manufactured by the Military Industrial Com..."

An excellent post James!!!

Lets also remember that a Vietnam era helicopter without full armour carrying most of SEAL Team 6 was shot down shortly after the raid.

During my time with DSO in South Africa i worked closely with members of the Pakistani ISI, I alos travelled to Islamabad to meet with senior members, in 89 i was in Pakistan and met with General Hamid Gul who became Director of ISI.

After it was declared that OBL was killed, he scoffed at the idea! Stating that OBL had died previously.
A small copy and paste about General Gul and his views!
General Gul worked closely with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, when he was the ISI head. However, he became dispassionate with the United States after it turned its back on Afghanistan following the 1989 Soviet withdrawal, as the United States had promised to help build a prosperous Afghanistan.[13] He was further disconcerted when the USA began punishing Pakistan with economic and military sanctions for its secret nuclear program. General Gul then went on to declare that "the Muslim world must stand united to confront the U.S. in its so-called War on Terrorism, which is in reality a war against Muslims. Let's destroy America wherever its troops are trapped."[15]

General Gul personally met Osama Bin Laden in 1993 and refused to label him a terrorist unless and until irrefutable evidence was provided linking him to alleged acts of terrorism.[16] Only days after the September 11 attacks, Gul also stated his belief that the attacks were "clearly an inside job". [17]

Another minor point, why was OBL buried at sea, that is hardly in keeping with the tradition of Islam!


message 26: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments A very interesting article!!
As has been known for many years, OBL was in a military hospital in Rawalpindi during 911, certainly no major secret, certainly the illustrious CIA should have been able to find him,
IF THEY HAD WANTED TO!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/where-wa...


message 27: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments A Vietnam-era helicopter being used in this era with SEALS?


message 28: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments OH YES!!!!


message 29: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments Only part wrong is that members of SEAL TEAM 6 were killed in the crash!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/...

http://www.westernjournalism.com/seal...


message 30: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments The FBI never had any evidence that OBL was involved in 911.
This was a myth perpetuated by the administration to enable the escalation of the war on terror!

http://www.ibtimes.com/osama-bin-lade...


message 31: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments John wrote: "The FBI never had any evidence that OBL was involved in 911.
This was a myth perpetuated by the administration to enable the escalation of the war on terror!

http://www.ibtimes.com/osama-bin-laden..."


Makes sense to me, John!


message 32: by Lance, Group Founder (last edited Dec 07, 2016 05:13AM) (new)


message 33: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Osama bin Laden death conspiracy theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_b...

Have we been told the truth about Bin Laden's death? - BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-...

The Mysterious Death of Osama bin Laden: Creating Evidence Where There Is None http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-myst...


message 34: by Ian-Anthony (new)

Ian-Anthony Finnimore I've lurked for a while before posting but I haven't seen mention of Dr Steve Pieczenik so I thought I'd throw his name into the hat too.

He was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State & is supposed to be who the Jack Ryan character is based on.

He has also repeated the 2001 death reports noting that OBL had Marfan syndrome.

Another interesting piece of info is Zbigniew Brzezinski & operation cyclone. Anyone who remembers Rambo 3 should note that the mujahideen were "the good guys".


message 35: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Good additional info on OBL, Ian-Anthony. Thanks.


message 36: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments Round Two of the group poll which asked members "Do you believe the official story of Osama Bin Laden's death was real or staged?" is now underway:

Vote and have your say! https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...


message 37: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments The group poll which asked members "Do you believe the official story of Osama Bin Laden's death was real or staged?" is now complete (after two rounds of voting and several hundred votes!).

Here are the results:

41.6% voted STAGED
31.9% voted REAL
26.5% voted UNSURE

Check out the comments section beneath the poll: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...


message 38: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments This 30 second video is pretty hilarious:

Bin Ladens Cave according to Rumsfeld -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhGH...

I agree with the following comments beneath this YouTube video:

"Osama= The Evil Goldfinger James bond villain complete with the Thunderbids underground base.

Where's the fluffy cat?"


"This is the worst state sponsored conspiracy theory, ever."


"Hmm, how did we manage to find all these caves, get these detailed drawings, and extensive details about what was in them, but we couldn't find OBL? Did they also have dialysis machines and organic medical personnel to operate them? What a crock of crap."


"From Tora Bora , with love . 00007 Bin Laden"


"Watching this video (and other videos of Rumsfeld) sends palpable chills down my spine, just like when I see old video footage of Nazi propaganda. I hope everyone realized by now that "Rumsfeld" is just the American word for Goebbels."


"This is TRACY CITY from "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO" lol you ussed to be able to buy it in cardboard from hobby shops BUT kids made there own as thay sold out so fast .whot a fucking joke lol only in America Looooooooooool :-)"


"This is some James Bond villian Dr Evil shit right here. I love the part at the end where he says, "there are many of these."
Everyone laughs at this clip now, but the scare campaign worked and that's the "hilarious" thing about it.
Americans and the West believed this propaganda, so maybe it's not so funny and actually quite pathetic how foolish and easily duped we are."


message 39: by John (new)

John Banks | 221 comments It is very pathetic what they believe!
If its on TV or in the newspapers IT HAS TO BE REAL!!


message 40: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2076 comments Jim wrote: "I also smelled a rat when they said OBL was killed. It was widely known he died in December 2001. I assumed the scary videos the government kept releasing afterward were fake or, at best, posthumou..."


message 41: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments John Banks, my old buddy and British espionage veteran field agent turned whistleblower, wrote this in another thread that I thought I'd post here:

One basic thing tells me it was staged.

Bin Laden was the "Prize above all other Prizes",
Yet they put the body in a body bag, raced it to a USN ship and buried it according to Muslim traditions.
1/ Nowhere does the Muslim religion state that a body must be buried at sea within 24 hours!
2/ No distinctive photo's taken of the body.
3/ Absolutely NO real proof to the press.
4/ SEAL team 6 was sent on an op a couple of weeks later in a Vietnam era chopper that was shot down because it had no armour, it was not a SpecOps chopper and did not have the proper onboard defensive systems!

Really really strange the whole affair.
I would have though Obama would have been putting evidence out there for the world to see!


message 42: by Ian (new)

Ian Miller | 586 comments As I see it, the limited information from Pakistan indicates something happened. Unfortunately, our news media seems incapable of getting in depth follow-up from certain other countries, or maybe in general. The disposal at sea has nothing to do with Muslim traditions, and was merely to "close the story", but with no actual evidence . . I believe they did throw some body into the sea, because it would be hard to keep a whole ship crew quiet about a total lie, and I would imagine if bin Laden had survived, he would have announced it by now.

One possibility that has not been considered in the media is that bin Laden was actually really very ill, and he may have simply expired.


message 43: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Yeah, lots of newspapers and media outlets throughout the Middle East reported Osama's death at various times as far back as the 1990s...

The perfect boogeyman designed by intel agencies would be a bad guy who died before his big crime...Easier to control a dead guy...

Just a thought!


message 44: by Rob (new)

Rob Williams | 25 comments Whether alive or dead in reality, he was still useful as an excuse to get a couple of wars going around the oil rich part of the world as well as justifying more domestic spying, etc. So since a lot about the news reports doesn't add up, I think it's likely that he had been dead for quite a while, maybe from kidney failure, but he was still needed for propaganda purposes.


message 45: by Phebe (new)

Phebe James wrote: "2/ No distinctive photo's taken of the body.
3/ Absolutely NO real proof to the press...."

..."

I don't know why you think No. 2 --- there may be hundreds of photos locked in Langley, or the Pentagon, for all we know.

No. 3 --- what is real proof? Fingerprints? How would we know the fingerprints are real?

We are talking about the nature of Truth here. Truth does not apply to the future, because no one knows the future: they just like to think they do.

Same deal with the past. We can and do establish consensuses about the past, but even careful historian evidence has serious limits. History is not a time machine. I say Napoleon died on Saint Helena. But then there is that movie with Ian Holm that showed him escaping back to France......

We can't know anything about past, present, or future. But I am satisfied that our guys zapped bin Laden.


message 46: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 7965 comments Rob wrote: "So since a lot about the news reports doesn't add up, I think it's likely that he had been dead for quite a while, maybe from kidney failure, but he was still needed for propaganda purposes. ..."

Agreed.
An extremely useful person, whatever the case...Worth trillions of dollars in terms of hunting him started multiple wars/invasions on mineral rich foreign lands....


back to top