"The Haunting of Hill House" by Shirley Jackson (BR)

[Silvana]

Starts in two weeks from now, i.e. October 29th as part of SFFBC's Halloween read.

Apparently there's a ten-episode series currently in Netflix.

Use spoiler tag and inform the corresponding chapter during discussion so the others know whether/when it's safe to open the spoilers.

So. Who's going to join me entering the haunted house?

[Dawn F]

I’ll be there! o/

Haven’t had time checking out the tv show and am not sure I should, before having read it. A good friend says it’s rather good, though.

[Soo]

Oh. Hm. I think I'll watch the series first and then listen to the book. I'm always disappointed if I read the book first and then watch the movie/show.

[Silvana]

@Dawn: Yep! I saw mostly good reviews so far.

@Soo: sounds like a good tactic. I am a scaredy cat when it comes to watching horror on the screen :(

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I've been watching the Netflix series and have one episode to go. It's very good - scary but also poignant and very well acted - but it has almost no relation to the book that allegedly spawned it, outside of names of some of the characters and some of the descriptions of the house itself...

[Silvana]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I've been watching the Netflix series and have one episode to go. It's very good - scary but also poignant and very well acted - but it has almost no relation to the book that allegedly spawned it,..."

I see. Thanks for the info!

[Bobby]

I'll be joining in. I've already got mine from the library!

[Soo]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I've been watching the Netflix series and have one episode to go. It's very good - scary but also poignant and very well acted - but it has almost no relation to the book that allegedly spawned it,..."

LoL - That's what I was expecting because I kept watching the trailer and double checking the title. Hahaha

[Nikki ~ The Nocturnal Bookworm]

I'll try to join in if I can finish up a couple books before then

[DivaDiane]

I read this relatively recently, so I’ll join in on the discussion, if that’s ok.

[Soo]

You should definitely join us, Diane. =)

Okay, I just finished the first episode of the show on Netflix and it rocked! Great cast.

[Soo]

Okay, gang. Wow. I love the TV show. Layers & layers. Clever. I can see people taking what they want from this show. Man. Totally worth talking about the show before the book and then seeing how the two overlap.

[Travis]

Soo wrote: "Okay, gang. Wow. I love the TV show. Layers & layers. Clever. I can see people taking what they want from this show. Man. Totally worth talking about the show before the book and then seeing how th..."

Those of you who like the show: a question (spoilers through second episode):

(view spoiler)[I really enjoyed the spooky supernatural quality of the first episode, but then felt that the second episode came to a huge soggy disappointing thud. Not only did it seem the show was leaning toward the supernatural being just an utterly cliche metaphor about grief, trauma, and loss, but also that the plot just didn't progress at all.

My question, then: If I hated the second episode, is it worthwhile to keep going? (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Travis - (view spoiler)[What about ep2 did you dislike? The first episode is a foundation followed by a series done in each of the family member's POV and then a mix. Some of the episodes are better done than others but all of them fit well together. This is one of those shows where details matter. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

If you don't mind subtitles, I recommend watching with subtitles on because the writing is great. I loved reading and hearing the dialogue.

[Travis]

Soo wrote: "Travis - [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I thought (a) the supernatural was being used as a cliche about loss and trauma that feels really really stale and overly simplified and (b) there was no plot progression. It made me think the show would sacrifice a good story/plot for an allegory only its creators thought would be clever or have something new to say. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Travis, I would give it a few more episodes before you decide whether or not to stop watching. I watched the whole thing & really enjoyed it. I'm the type to notice the acting, vocal nuances, background music or sounds, graphics CGI/other, timing of scene changes, etc. There are slow parts because some characters/scenes will interest you more than others but it all pieced together well.

(view spoiler)[I thought the writing & acting did a fantastic job of making it look like the story could be mental illness/stress or supernatural. If you decide to not finish it, I can tell you how it ended but I think it's worth watching to the end. (hide spoiler)]

[Jen]

My husband and I just started this and so far we really like it.

[Travis]

Soo wrote: "Travis, I would give it a few more episodes before you decide whether or not to stop watching. I watched the whole thing & really enjoyed it. I'm the type to notice the acting, vocal nuances, backg..."

Thanks so much! I'm persuaded.

[Soo]

Almost done with the book. I have a few books I want to read at the end of the month so I figured I would get a head start on this one.

I may be the only one but I would rather talk about the TV Show & the varied thoughts I had about it. Hahaha

[Soo]

Travis, did you watch more episodes? What do you think?

[Jordan]

I read this earlier this month. Didn't realize we had a buddy read coming up for it. I'm now watching the Netflix series and have finished seven episodes. Hoping to finish it this weekend. I love the book and the show equally and separately.

[Silvana]

I started reading yesterday and it has been good. 14% and (view spoiler)[no scary parts yet (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Soo wrote: "Travis, did you watch more episodes? What do you think?"

Not yet! We're going to get back to it soon...

[Dawn F]

I have two hours left of the tv show, utter gorgeous television! I'm so impressed! I started listening to 10-15 minutes of the book last night and it's obviously a completely different atmosphere than the tv show, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Will continue today.

[Soo]

I really want to discuss how the book & show & movie are related, etc. =D

Dawn, I agree! Great visuals. The tv show has a nice mix of story, acting & visuals.

[Silvana]

25%

It is funny that Eleanor and Theodora (view spoiler)[deliberately ignored all the blunt warning - the keeper even prevented them coming in - and made jokes about the house.

And I would seriously be angry with Doctor Montague, as the one sending the invites, who was not even there before the invitees arrived. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Well, it is Sunday and has been raining all day with some thunders so basically the perfect weather for this book. I definitely breezed through it, the prose is easy flowing.

53% or page 115
Still kind of weird that (view spoiler)[nothing really scary happened - closing doors don't count - although we got the back story of the house with some dead people in it.

Some interesting parts for me:
1. The design of the house and its effects on people. I wish there is a map or floor plan since my brain could not make a coherent picture.
2. The characters were very self-aware, weren't he? Luke's first intro when he mentioned 'list of characters' and then in page 115 when the Doctor talked about the current atmosphere where one could find out the flaws and faults and weaknesses and so on.
(hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Silvana (view spoiler)[Good reminder about the shapes. I kept taking a room and eskewing it in my head to see if that would be what it looks like or maybe more like a horror funhouse? Where things are intentionally made to screw with perception?

Ya know like the funny mirror that warps your image.

I felt that the characters were very arch typical and that made it simple to label/place each one. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Re: the House

(view spoiler)[yes indeed. especially since it was mentioned the House was built to mimic a carnival. all about the mindtricks. but seriously, the founder, this Hugh guy, I really don't like him. How could he expect his daughters to live and grow up in a house designed as a crazy house at the beginning?? (hide spoiler)]

68% and
(view spoiler)[we finally had some scary parts! well, supposedly scary I guess. Writings on the wall and some rough knocking on the door only.

Eleanor's thoughts are getting more interesting, showing some mental instability - maybe because of her upbringing. (hide spoiler)]

anyway I'll stop for today since it's almost 11 PM.

[Bobby]

I didn't get to start yesterday, but I should start today.

[Silvana]

It should be a quick read, Bobby. I finished today and it was... (view spoiler)[psychological. Nothing too scary. (hide spoiler)]

Will post more thoughts tomorrow.

[Dawn F]

Finished it yesterday and (view spoiler)[it was a fun read, if not spooky to me at all. I liked how it unfolded, though. A good, little entertaining mystery read! (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

This is the place which according to Ruth Franklin - who wrote a book on Jackson - believed to be the inspiration for the Hill House:
https://vermonter.com/benningtons-hau...

[Soo]

Nice link on the potential spot. =)

Anyone want to talk about the tv show because I'd enjoy that.

[Bobby]

Okay, Silvana, you are right it's a quick read and I'm roughly halfway through. I'm reading on an e-book app from my library that doesn't give percentages or accurate pages, so I'll just say I'm on chapter IV section 1 for spoilers.

(view spoiler)[It is not scary at all, but there's plenty of slightly spooky mystery I want to find out about. I love the way the house is slightly off symetrically, making it hard to navigate.

So far it's keeping my interest, but I'm not blown away. I think what I like the most so far is the banter between the characters. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

Bobby wrote: "Okay, Silvana, you are right it's a quick read and I'm roughly halfway through. I'm reading on an e-book app from my library that doesn't give percentages or accurate pages, so I'll just say I'm on..."

I felt the same too. I think until halfway you almost feel like reading a group having a picnic or something ;p

The juicier stuff happen later, so I am looking forward to know what your thoughts.

[Silvana]

Some thoughts after finishing the book:

This book is not for people who:
(view spoiler)[are looking for a ghost story with scary supernatural scenes, or gore, or jump scares. (hide spoiler)]

On characters, Shirley Jackson had a knack in bringing her readers into the heads of her POV characters - can't help but notice that lots were lonely, repressed women - and have us watching the journeys of these characters inside a suitably depressing, desolate environment that would affect them. The writing is atmospheric and poetic at the same time, it is almost dreamlike.

I did enjoy We Have Always Lived in the Castle more than this book - a better psychological horror and some claimed it was her best work. Plus, the cast of characters aside from Eleanor and Theodora were not interesting enough for me to pay attention to.

Reading about Eleanor's (view spoiler)[thoughts is definitely the scariest part of the book. We got some fleeting images of her obviously disturbed mind or mental illness and it grew significantly throughout the book till the very end. (hide spoiler)]

I expected (view spoiler)[more paranormal occurrences but I was left wanting until almost the end. I don't mind phobia, insecurity issues and stuff, but I can handle some proper haunting. But nope. I guess it's all about the psyche. (hide spoiler)]

And yet, this book has a powerful ending note. (view spoiler)[
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone." (hide spoiler)]

I got chills.

[Bobby]

I just finished chapter V, and now we're getting to the spooky parts.

Spoiler up to the end of chapter V (view spoiler)[Okay, so Hill House is starting to get serious it looks like. First we had pounding on the door, then we had chalk writing on the walls, then we had blood on the walls, and now we've got Eleanor holding hands with a ghost (I think) while another ghost makes noise in the now bloody room. So far this is just a classic story about a haunted house and how it has affected the 4 characters. The last line in the chapter "Whose hand was I holding?" was great at showing how scared Eleanor was at that moment.

I'm enjoying Eleanor's point of view, but it seems like she's already starting to lose it a bit. She went to absolutely loving Theodora and happy that she has a friend, to wanting to hurt her and watch her die. That part is really interesting so far, and I want to see where it's going. (hide spoiler)]

[Silvana]

@Bobby: I liked the 'hand' part and reminded me of lots of ghost stories with similar scenes.

@Dawn: you mentioned that you enjoyed the mystery. Do you feel you got a sufficient explanation on what really happened?

(view spoiler)[because if the ghosts were previous inhabitants, I was not convinced.

Actually I feel like the disturbances in the House might be caused by Eleanor's poltergeist and/or the House's design itself. She did the haunting herself. All of these factors contribute to the increasing mental instability of Eleanor and resulted in her suicide. Plus, the ending sentence of 'whatever walked there, walked alone' I kind of look at as actually there was never been a ghost before Eleanor who is now the only one. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

I finished last night, which was nice for Halloween. Overall I did like it, but there were a lot of things that confused me and I felt didn't get resolved.

Full book spoilers. (view spoiler)[I gave it 3 stars and would have given it more if the ending wasn't so ambiguous. I actually really liked the way the narration described the decline in Eleanor's mental condition. I just wished we had gotten some closure, either showing that now Eleanor's ghost is in Hill House, that it really was all in her head, or that it was a combination of ghosts and her mental state.

Sylvana, I also felt like the mystery wasn't resolved. I didn't even think about her bringing the poltergeist with her. I keep trying to figure out how if it was all in her head, the others saw and felt some of the same things she did. One part I didn't understand was Theodora's clothes and room not being bloody when they checked. Obviously Theodora believed they were covered in blood too, so why was it made out to be such a big reveal when they were not? The other things that made me think Hill House was really haunted are the cold spot and the planchette repeating Eleanor's name and the warning for her to go home.

I think it was intentional, but I just didn't like being confused for the last 30% or so of the book with no payoff. I still enjoyed it, and I can see why it's a classic ghost story. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Bobby (view spoiler)[I personally think Eleanor committed suicide by driving the car into a tree & become a permanent part of the house.

I thought the best part of the story was Eleanor's leap off sanity. It was obvious from the get go that she was odd. Once she got to the house, it was a very steep decline.

The worst part to me was the way the story ended. Compared to the rest of the book, the ending was fairly abrupt and jarring in the sudden wrap up. (hide spoiler)]

I'm glad I had company to talk about the book. Thanks, gang!

[Kirsten]

I read this a couple of years and liked it. It looks like the tv series has no relation to the plot. I wonder if any of the adaptations do. Vincent Price was in a B&W version.

[Soo]

I thought the tv series did take core ideas and setting from the book. The general story for the show may not seem like it's like the book but the outlines are there.
(view spoiler)[
- Haunted house with a history.
- Noises, dreams, poltergeist events & mental illness.
- Skeptic researcher of supernatural events.
(hide spoiler)]

[Randy]

A few thoughts:

In The Dark Descent David Hartwell says Jackson once told him she owned a complete run of Unknown magazine, a 1940s pulp edited by John W. Campbell Jr. that featured a breed of fantasy purposely not of the Weird Tales variety. Fritz Leiber, Fred Brown, Anthony Boucher, Heinlein, Sturgeon, Kuttner and Moore, among many others published work in it. I think, in her restraint Jackson shows some influence from that. (I think the same for her contemporary, Richard Matheson.)

I first read this novel about forty years ago and have read it 4 or 5 times since. It is, I think, one of the most disturbing novels I've read because you do not know if what's happening is mostly in Eleanor's head or if it's due to some psychic ability latent in her since her teens or if the house is truly haunted -- Jackson very deliberately, I think, leaves it to the reader's discretion to decide for her-/himself.

(view spoiler)[Not sure this is really a spoiler, but the last few times I read this, I noticed how Eleanor's affection/desire/need bounces from one to the other of her co-inhabitants, first Theodora, then Luke (as I recall) then Dr. Montague. Rebuffed by each, at least in her own estimation, she finally has no where to turn except to Hill House.

The haunted house story, then, is sort of a MacGuffin as the novel follows a woman forced to be a caretaker and her sense of desperation when faced with building a life outside those constraints while facing new constraints added by her sister, at a time when there were few other outlets for women.
(hide spoiler)]

RM

[Silvana]

I think we shared similar opinion on the resolution of this book, Bobby and Soo. Randy also has a point about the author wanted to leave it to the reader's discretion to decide for her-/himself. It got me thinking om my previous thought that everything happened (view spoiler)[because of Eleanor (hide spoiler)] but then there were some happenings that we could not explain, so it might not only be Eleanor? or was it like the Professor suspected, there's a scientific explanation? was Eleanor's latent psychic ability strong enough to affect the temperature and so on? Remains a mystery to me. I guess we just have to deal with it ;p

Randy I liked your theory about Eleanor (view spoiler)[felt so left out then she decided to just 'stay' in the house (hide spoiler)]
Funny that the two novels I read from Jackson all involved repressed, troubled women and we got to see their unreliable perspective.

[Silvana]

Soo wrote: "I thought the tv series did take core ideas and setting from the book. The general story for the show may not seem like it's like the book but the outlines are there.
"

I read the recaps of the TV series - I won't be able to watch it - and the story seemed wayyyy scarier

[Soo]

The show is haunting and scary for those that are easily scared. The story for the show has more layers and leaves just as many questions open ended to differing answers. The acting, graphics, soundtrack & sequences were done well and left an edgy curiosity that kept me going.

[Bonnie]

At 25% (although that counts a long-ish introduction, so probably less in reality)

Amusing:
- Eleanor's conversation about taking the car, with her sister and brother-in-law

- Eleanor thinking about the pants she bought for the summer:

...she had even run out at the last minute and bought—excited at her own daring—two pairs of slacks, something she had not worn in more years than she could remember. Mother would be furious, she had thought, packing the slacks down at the bottom of her suitcase so that she need not take them out, need never let anyone know she had them, in case she lost her courage

SLACKS! 😁

- Eleanor and Theodora making fun of Mrs. Dudley