Could you read a book with intentional speling and grammar errors?

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Hey guys,

I'm working on a short story. It's a pretty heavy topic. The main character is a fifteen year old girl and to lighten it up a bit, I'm doing it diary form. As such, since it is supposed to appear as if it was written by this girl, I've been adding a few intentional spelling and grammatical errors, such as putting numerals in instead of writing the number out, writing a few words in all caps, things like that. It's not over the top. I'll likely go ahead with it as it is. I'm still curious, though, how many people might be bothered by it.

And, no, I don't really want to put a warning or whatever on it to tip the reader off. That feels weak to me.

So, could you handle a story with some intentional erors in it?

[Anna]

If it were to be diary entries of a teenager, then to make it realistic it is almost essential to do as you say. But... the writer needs to be able to convey her thoughts in a way that the reader can understand. All caps and that sort of thing is great. Bad grammar can be confusing and off -putting.

[[deleted user]]

As long as it is part of the dialogue of the person writing it. When you make it clear that it is the diary of a teenager, then it give a better in depth look at the person writing the diary.
What drives me insane is when writers have spelling mistakes in an edited book. I read a published book (who used a publishing company) by an author who is a news reporter that had a spelling mistake on almost every 5 or 6 pages. Who did the editing????

[Tomas, Wandering dreamer]

I have managed to read two books filled with unintentional errors (author with English as the second language and obviously not good enough in it + no editing done) because I liked the story. If it's to be a trait of a character, especially as a diary, I'd have no issue with it. I'd possibly miss it because I have English as a second language myself.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Sophie Janet wrote: "You know how "How To Train Your Dragon" has little mistakes in it, alongside ink splots on the pages, etc.? It's because the characters are so clearly inefficient at spelling, which is kinda the po..."

I read your comment and it was helpful. I have to delete it for the link. Sorry.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Alex wrote: "I look upon it as akin to using slang or local idiom in dialogue."

I agree. A diary is much like a character talking to themselves and she doesn't intend for anyone to ever read it, so she's just writing her feelings as they come. I see her writing it on the fly between school, her after school job, and homework.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Anna Faversham wrote: "Bad grammar can be confusing and off -putting."

I agree. I'm going to keep the bad grammar at a minimum.

[Margaret]

I think it would seem very unrealistic if there weren't grammatical and spelling errors. I teach teenagers. Even in their work they turn in, there are many errors and oftentimes they don't recognize them when they're pointed out because, as teens, they are so accustomed to speaking that way.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Tomas wrote: "If it's to be a trait of a character, especially as a diary, I'd have no issue with it."

I don't think I've ever known a teenager who wrote or spoke in perfect English all the time. Most don't really care. So, it feels like an inherent trait due to her age.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Sylvia wrote: "As long as it is part of the dialogue of the person writing it."

Yep. To me, a diary is like a conversation with yourself.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Margaret wrote: "I think it would seem very unrealistic if there weren't grammatical and spelling errors. I teach teenagers..."

So grateful for your input. I don't spend a lot of time around teenagers these days, but I know when I was a teenager and later in life when I worked as a camp counselor, etc. the teens I knew didn't care much about spelling and grammar, unless they were writing a paper for school.

[Jay]

I understand what you're trying to do, but what does it add from a reader's viewpoint? A reader will be prompted, internally, that there's a spelling error, and must deliberately lower their standards for the quality of the writing. That would seem to be a significant downside. What makes up for it, to pay the reader back for accepting the loss of quality? There must be something.

It sounds as if you're doing it to "jazz-up" the act of telling with artifacts external to the action, like bad editing and poor writing skills on the part of your narrator. But be the story told in in diary, epistolary, or straight narration form, the focus should never be on explaining what happened from the viewpoint of the narrator. If you focus on on the progression of events—present them in summation and overview—readers will turn away because it reads too much like a report or history book. And who reads history books for entertainment?

Our task is to entertain the reader by making them feel as if they're living the story in real-time,, within the moment of time the protagonist calls, "now." Think in terms of making the reader feel, not just know what happened. So, anything that detracts from that feeling of time passing for the reader at the same rate as for your performers, is to be avoided.

That's why I'd suggest, as has already been mentioned, that you make the reader know her through vocabulary, and personal idiosyncrasies. Readers assume that any novel has been edited before publication, even diaries. So if she spells poorly and that moves the plot, meaningfully, or sets her character, have her spell badly within the actual story. As Sol Stein observed:

“In sum, if you want to improve your chances of publication, keep your story visible on stage and yourself mum.”

[Lauren]

Robert Swindells wrote Daz 4 Zoe with half the book written in illiterate prose. It's a fantastic YA read, where two protags alternate as narrator.
Zoe's chapters are eloquently written with correct spellings and impeccable grammar - as she is raised in the privileged Newtown. Daz's chapters are written exactly as he would say each word - as he's raised in a ghetto and is entirely self-taught.
The contrast does nothing but add to the story, and his sections are not off-putting at all. I found I enjoyed them almost more than hers.
I would say that if you want to represent your character through the way "she" writes as well as through the content of the novel, it's a tried and tested method. Just be sure it does add to the reader's understanding of and appreciation for the lead, rather than just a neat idea or gimmick.

[[deleted user]]

If it's in first person, sure but to a limit. I could handle a few typos and grammar mistakes before putting the book down.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Lauren wrote: "Just be sure it does add to the reader's understanding of and appreciation for the lead, rather than just a neat idea or gimmick."

That's why I'm inclined to keep all the "mistakes" at a minimum. I don't want it to feel too gimmicky. Thanks for your comment. I may have to take a look at Daz 4 Zoe.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Amelia wrote: "If it's in first person, sure but to a limit. I could handle a few typos and grammar mistakes before putting the book down."

Definitely first person. And the "mistakes" will be limited. Thank you!

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Jay,

In all your rambling, I'm guessing the answer to what I was actually asking is "no."

As for the rest, I used to keep a journal when I was a kid. It was crazy full of angst, anxiety, glee, etc. I don't know if this is how others journal, but it's how my character does it. In other words, it's not a history book. Thanks for the unnecessary lecture, anyway.

[C.L.]

I mean, The Color Purple and Forrest Gump were written that way and it works. But it takes a really good writer to pull it off, because I found both those books very difficult to read. But The Color Purple especially is worth it.

LM Montgomery's Emily of New Moon often includes entries from Emily's diary and they are rife with errors. So it's stylistically accepted.

With indie books you're going to have to be very deliberate and clear that it is the character making the mistakes and not you because that is what people will assume unless you make it quite obvious.

As for all caps, that's not even considered an error anymore. Many trad YA books use them, like The Fault in Our Stars.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

C.L. wrote: "Forrest Gump"

Damn. I feel foolish, now. I have seen deliberate poor grammar in older books, but could not think of any contemporary books in which this is done. I cannot believe I forgot about Forrest Gump as Winston Groom is one of my influences. And you're right, the book is ripe with misspelled words, way more than my little story will have. Of course, maybe there's something to doing it a little over-the-top to clue the reader in that this is intentional. As you pointed out, people often expect Indie books to be poorly written and badly edited.

[Ian]

As for the grammar, slang etc is fine, but real care is needed where the bad grammar could lead to ambiguity. A young girl might write like that, but the reader may well be confused. Confuse the reader too often and you lose the reader. Personally, I hate having to puzzle out what the author was trying to say.

[Christina]

I have never understood the concept of "bad grammar" in conversational writing. People don't speak properly at all times and those that do are usually over-mindful due to some sort of self-confidence issues,lending them to overcorrect back into bad grammar.

I write characters who deliberately destroy the English language all the time. I frequently ignore "rules" stating that certain filler words shouldn't be used. I'll also challenge CL's assessment that it requires a really good author because really good is quite subjective and because I, an average author at best, have pulled it off with success.

Spelling errors might be a bit harder to pull off. If the diary was excerpted occasionally, it would not be out of place to have a whole excerpt riddled with mistakes. But if the diary format *is* the story, I'd stick with slang and vernacular, but skip intentional misspellings.

[Ubiquitous]

The general rule of thumb that I like to use is to include enough of the slang/grammar/spelling “flavor” to give the character a voice, but not so much that the reader wants the character to shut up.

A few unique spelling choices may be sufficient to convey the idea without writing the entire book in l33t speak and emojis.

[J.S.]

I agree with what's been said about it adding to the validity of the point of view of a teenager, especially because it's written as a diary.

I personally could accept it more in YA than children's books. I wouldn't read Junie B. Jones to my kids as they were learning to read because I felt it taught them wrong principles. That's just me, though. I know lots of people who love that series.

[M.L.]

What I question is (in the OP) using improper grammar, etc., to 'lighten up' a heavy topic, especially if the MC is the only speaker. I'm reading something with a lot of dialect sprinkled throughout. Is she going to use a misspelling of "fook" (this is in the book I'm reading but it's dialect and obviously so).

Without reading the specific work, I don't know.

Just adding: In other words, is her topic not to be taken *as seriously* by somehow undercutting her earnestness. Hope that makes sense! :)

[C.L.]

Christina wrote: "I have never understood the concept of "bad grammar" in conversational writing. People don't speak properly at all times and those that do are usually over-mindful due to some sort of self-confiden..."

That's true, but that's not what I'm talking about. My dialogue is rife with colloquial speech as it should be. Characters should talk like real people, grammatical errors and all. That's GOOD writing.

I'm talking about a book in which there are deliberate misspellings and grammatical errors as part of the narrative text. I didn't say it takes a genius but it certainly takes some skill.

If you don't hit the right note, people will just think your book needs a serious editing.

You need to have the skill to write in such a way that people understand that this is a deliberate act on behalf of the author and make the story/character engaging enough that peope who are annoyed by such things will read it anyway.

Everyone reading The Color Purple knows that when Celie says "I ast our new mammy bout Shug Avery. What it is? I ast. She don't know but she say she gon fine out. She do more then that. She git a picture" that Alice Walker knows perfectly well how to spell those words. It's obviously Celie's writing and voice.

But if you just spell things a little wrong occasionally people may not pick up on the fact that it is deliberate characterization. If you overdo it the story may become unreadable. There's a fine balance.

That's why I say it takes some skill to pull off.

Plus enough people are annoyed by writing like that - if even if they know it's deliberate - that they may not keep reading unless the story really grabs them.

I'm certain Dwayne will be fine.

[Noor]

I've always hated reading "accents" like the example you showed, C.L. Because when someone says a word in their accent, they are still saying the same word, just pronouncing it differently. There's no need to torture the reader with trying to decipher every other word. Nothing pulls me out of a story more effectively than that kind of writing.

On the other hand, word choice can be an excellent way to convey an accent or slang or personality without annoying the reader. Every accent will have unique words that can give your writing and dialogue the flavour of the accent being spoken and make it really obvious to the reader what the character will actually sound like when they speak, so that even if you spell all the other words correctly your readers will still hear them in that accent. Not sure if this made sense...

When it comes to spelling I would be fine with it in a journal for sure. I teach teenagers and from that experience I would find it suspicious if the spelling was all perfect, especially in a journal where it's private and they don't have to make an effort to impress anyone for marks!

One last thing, I once read a book about online bullying and the entire thing was written in the form of internet chat board messages. There was internet slang, bad spelling and grammar and so on, but I never once felt that it was awkward or annoying. It fit the subject matter. I was reading the characters' actual online conversations and so it made perfect sense for them to be written in that form. I think the same kind of thing can apply to you diary.

[B.]

C.L. wrote: "I mean, The Color Purple and Forrest Gump were written that way and it works. But it takes a really good writer to pull it off, because I found both those books very difficult to read. But The Colo..."

I agree with C.L. I think Indie author's tend to be more harshly judged than traditionally published authors. I think that there's a stigma behind indie-publishing (which is a topic for another board surely) and that it may not be in your best interest to use such a tactic. At the end of the day it is your choice as your piece of art.

As a reader, more than a few errors done on purpose, would put me off. I've never found a book to be error free (not even mine which went through several editors), but if it is a standing trend it would get on my nerves. I even had a hard time with Hagrid's dialogue in the Harry Potter series. But that's my intolerances at play. Obviously from the comments above it wouldn't bother some readers so you should make the choice you feel comfortable with and potentially tailor your marketing strategy accordingly.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Ian wrote: "A young girl might write like that, but the reader may well be confused. Confuse the reader too often and you lose the reader."

Not super worried about this. That will get ironed out in the beta reader stage.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Christina wrote: "But if the diary format *is* the story..."

It is.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Ubiquitous wrote: "The general rule of thumb that I like to use is to include enough of the slang/grammar/spelling “flavor” to give the character a voice..."

I do that, too, especially in this series. All these short stories are told in first person and the narrators are small town working class types, so I try to give each narrator a unique voice.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

C.L. wrote: "But if you just spell things a little wrong occasionally people may not pick up on the fact that it is deliberate characterization. If you overdo it the story may become unreadable. There's a fine balance."

I'm becoming less bold about the intentional poor spelling as the comments come in. As said, it's a serious subject matter and it seems almost half of the people responding would be put off by the spelling. I not excited about that. Some of my stories, sure, but this one feels too important.

If I go with it, the misspellings will be consistent and nothing too off-the-wall. (homecomeing, cigaret, unaform).

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Noor wrote: "One last thing, I once read a book about online bullying and the entire thing was written in the form of internet chat board messages."

Yeah, that's similar. This subject's a touch heavier, though.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

J.S. wrote: "I personally could accept it more in YA than children's books."

This is neither. This is very much intended for adults.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

M.L. wrote: "Without reading the specific work, I don't know.

Just adding: In other words, is her topic not to be taken *as seriously* by somehow undercutting her earnestness. Hope that makes sense! :) "

I think I get it.

I've been hesitant to say what the subject is as I don't need to start a debate here about it, but - it's inspired by recent events here in the US.

In my story, a small town is being turned upside down as the long time beloved mayor is accused of raping a woman some years ago. At first my main character is siding with adults who think the accuser is lying and out to destroy the mayor, but as the story progresses she becomes less comfortable with how men and boys treat her and less confident anyone will believe her if she were in serious trouble.

Maybe I shouldn't lighten it up at all. It's been a long time since I've wanted to tell a story so badly but had so little confidence in how to tell it.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

B. wrote: "As a reader, more than a few errors done on purpose, would put me off. I've never found a book to be error free (not even mine which went through several editors)"

Thank you for your input. It seems I'm not the only one who still finds mistakes in their work even after a dozen edits.

[M.L.]

Dwayne wrote: "M.L. wrote: "Without reading the specific work, I don't know.

Just adding: In other words, is her topic not to be taken *as seriously* by somehow undercutting her earnestness. Hope that makes sens..."

It could work really well. You might take a look at Blood Red Road by Moira Young. It's not overdone but sets the tone and sounds natural. The reader knows immediately it's her.

[Christina]

C.L. wrote: "Everyone reading The Color Purple knows that when Celie says "I ast our new mammy bout Shug Avery. What it is? I ast. She don't know but she say she gon fine out. She do more then that. She git a picture" that Alice Walker knows perfectly well how to spell those words. It's obviously Celie's writing and voice."

But this isn't bad spelling. This is a proper example of vernacular.

[Sabrina]

I could never read a book with intentional grammar issues. I understand you could use this tactic for a teenaged diary to make it more realistic and whatnot....however...
Just the type of person I am, it irritates my mind beyond measure. It starts to pile up, all of those grammatical errors, and it's like an itch I can't reach....and it's in my brain.
In other words....no.

[M.L.]

There's easy-to-read slang/misspelling vs. harder. For example:

Diary, Jan 2, 2018

I'm writin this diary cuz my English teacher Miss Chiswell made me mad, she sed I can't spel worth shitt. I'm gonna show her.

Of course you're spell check is going to go crazy! :) But what the heck.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Sabrina wrote: "I could never read a book with intentional grammar issues. I understand you could use this tactic for a teenaged diary to make it more realistic and whatnot....however..."

Fair enough.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

M.L. wrote: "There's easy-to-read slang/misspelling vs. harder. For example:

Diary, Jan 2, 2018

I'm writin this diary cuz my English teacher Miss Chiswell made me mad, she sed I can't spel worth shitt. I'm go..."

Yeah, I'm thinking of doing something like that, only a bit more subtle. "Got my creative writing asignment back, the one I thought was so great? Teacher dropped me a buncha points for spelling. Wow."

Since I write a lot of books with characters with poor grammar, use a lot of made up words and usually include at least one line written in a foreign language, my spell checker hates me anyway.

[M.L.]

I think that's completely readable.

[B.A.]

Intentional errors which fit the book I can handle. A fifteen year old today will have tons of abbreviations, slang, incomplete sentences, etc. The consistency will show it's intentional.

Unintentional errors are a totally different story and will put me off a book in no time flat, regardless of how good the story may or may not be.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

M.L. wrote: "I think that's completely readable."

Thanks, M.L. The finished product will possibly be sprinkled a little heavier with mistakes. I'm going to experiment for the first few drafts.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

B.A. wrote: "Intentional errors which fit the book I can handle. A fifteen year old today will have tons of abbreviations, slang, incomplete sentences, etc. The consistency will show it's intentional."

Heh. Funny you should mention incomplete sentences. There's one point where an entry ends in mid-sentence. The next entry begins with, "I got interrupted. Forget what I was saying. I have something more important to share."

[C.B., Beach Body Moderator]

I had a character who was clumsy so every time he talked (typed) he made errors.

One person said it was off-putting.
Everyone else has said it was good fun.

So it will bother some people, but that's okay.

I think it fits the style.

A good way to show this is happening would be at the very first spelling error to strike out the letters and re-write the word a few times, and then just saw 'whatever' and go forward after that. Then it is super clear that is happening in the rest of the book on purpose.

[Karen]

Personally, I'd struggle with that, but my background is an English major and a professional editor, so I'm a bit of a grammar fiend. I guess it depends on context. If I'm writing something like a social media chat exchange, then spelling errors would make sense. Nobody spells well on social media. But for the bulk of the text, I would find it difficult to read with a lot of errors.

But that is me. I know most readers are not as obsessive as me.

[Brad]

It would certainly be difficult but I think I could get past it provided there was nothing that removed me from the immersive feeling of actually reading this girl's diary.

I've seen things like this work before, so I don't think it's a bad idea, It can just be risky.

for example -- I've read a sequence where a character was drugged and after each page turn you needed to re-orient the book to keep reading. It would flip from horizontal, to vertical, to reading in reverse. It was disorienting but it was just long enough to induce the proper feeling.

Best of luck!

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

C.B. wrote: "A good way to show this is happening would be at the very first spelling error to strike out the letters and re-write the word a few times, and then just saw 'whatever' and go forward after that."

I might have to slip that in there somewhere. That's a good idea.

I have had two people read it without telling them what to expect and both were fine with the misspellings, etc. after a paragraph or two.

[Dwayne, Head of Lettuce]

Karen wrote: "Personally, I'd struggle with that, but my background is an English major..."

Yep. Mine, too.