Buddy Read in October for the Weight of Ink

[Charlotte]

Please feel free to discuss without me. Life has gotten in the way with an escalation in family drama. My half siblings are demanding we divide up my mother’s belongings that use to belong to our dad. Mind you my mom is not dead and only moving. Sigh. Not sure I’ll be reading anything any time soon. Thank you for thinking of me!!!! And I’ll be back next month!!!

[[deleted user]]

Charlotte wrote: "Please feel free to discuss without me. Life has gotten in the way with an escalation in family drama. My half siblings are demanding we divide up my mother’s belongings that use to belong to our d..."

Oh, I'm sorry. I hope things get easier for you very soon. Thinking of you.

[Theresa]

I am 68% through and really enjoying it. Slow going though; this is a book that requires full attention when reading.

Reminds me of reading Hunger’s Brides: A Novel of the Baroque - although far easier read! Definitely an interesting juxtaposition as both tell contemporary stories alternating with and linked to late 17th Century ones, albeit on different continents.

[Theresa]

Finished it in the wee hours, but only now able to write a review. I have to agree that rating it is easy, but writing the review is not! It is an engrossing read, requiring attention, and quite enjoyable. Coincidentally I recently read Hunger’s Brides: A Novel of the Baroque which is also historical fiction about a late 17th Century female scholar in Mexico, whose story is told in parallel to that of the late 20th Century scholar researching her. Was good training for this, but I need to read simpler plots for a bit now!

I am putting some burning discussion behind spoiler tag so they are writ while churning in my mind. Once we start open discussion, I will remove the spoiler tag. This is such a great discussion book, can't wait to get started!

While this is definitely historical fiction about Restoration London, I hazard to suggest that it is also about women as intellects and philosophers, women academics suppression both overtly historically (denied education) and more subtley in contemporary academia (Helen being supplanted by the (male) former student of the (male) department chair as first scholar studying the genizah). Yet the story also reveals how gifted intellectual women persisted and continue to do so. I liked how contemporary politics in academia were laced into the story.

I did find sections slow, and the philosophical arguments set out by Ester in the letters she is scribing were a bit much, but there are also many ironies and even inventive leaps that balance out those passages. For that reason I gzve it 4 stars. However I found the historical story revealed to be fascinating. The portrait of London during the 1666 plague!

Reading any historical story showing the degree to which women were overtly marginalized and disregarded is always painful. Even more than Ester's story is that of Mary and her mother Catherine. Does Ester ultimately find freedom, happiness, and a loving if unconventional family, not because she has the strength to fight and survive, but because she was an outcast, an exile, from the Sephardic community since birth? I do think that is true.

And what of Helen? I confess I have not reached a conclusion about Helen...is she trapped or free? Marginalized or ultimately liberated? Clearly her final gift to Aaron liberates him, as he is about to become the father of a daughter. Let me suggest that perhaps Helen was also gifting his daughter.

This is one of those books that will have me thinking and rereading for a long time. Loved the reviews already posted, which I am only now reading.

[[deleted user]]

Theresa wrote: "Finished it in the wee hours, but only now able to write a review. I have to agree that rating it is easy, but writing the review is not! It is an engrossing read, requiring attention, and quite en..."

I am still thinking about this book! I believe we all will for some time. I loved your review by the way.

[Kszr]

Theresa wrote: "Finished it in the wee hours, but only now able to write a review. I have to agree that rating it is easy, but writing the review is not! It is an engrossing read, requiring attention, and quite en..."

Great review. The marginalization of intellectual women was so nicely told - and even the Patricia's lives of specific scholar was not valued by the historians in their rooms - were yet another layer. They are the marginalized women of whom we don't think as being marginalized, because they fit nicely into a box that is set for them, and the challenges they present to protect their spaces are considered silly by the likes of Aaron.

[Theresa]

Kszr wrote: "The marginalization of intellectual women was so nicely told - and even the Patricia's lives of specifii..."

Yes! Plus there is that interaction between Aaron and Penelope who was in charge of the records he checked in Richmond, and his commentary on Penelope being in training to be a Patricia.

Even the author's use of names starting with "P" for those women, making them basically anonymous or perhaps a better description, having no individual personalities or identities, emphasizes how they are marginalized.

Another topic that is addressed is guilt, the nature of guilt and of forgiveness within a general context and more specific context of Judaism and family. Or is it the same? Should developing your mind and pursuing education however you have to do so given societal constraints cause guilt?

Since living in NYC, the idea of Jewish guilt, something that one's Jewish mother has mastered imparting on her children, is discussed with humor and rueful acceptance, and guilt is often claimed as having only been mastered by those of Jewish faith. I however, claim that the Catholics are pretty expert in it as well --- especially those of us who spent time in Catholic schools taught by nuns. But is that the same 'guilt' as presented in The Weight of Ink? Is it the same 'guilt' as in a court of law? What is guilt? Should it include acting in a way that helps you survive?

[Kszr]

Guilt is absolutely a shared trait between the religions - in the twist of being more alike than not.
Guilt and Love are two emotions that are explored at length - with all having both in the pursuit of both love and knowledge. I believe that you can't have one without the other, since you always need to choose a path - the sheltered, known one or the exposed, unknown one. even these definitions are contradictions.

[Amy]

OK friends - Theresa finished it too, beautiful review I might add. Lets actually do what we promised and share together in the delight of this amazing book. There were also some folks who had already read the book, who were looking forward to joining into our discussion. They have been on lurking alert, and I say we find a way to dive straight in.

KSZR and I had a great local discussion about it with three other women. One of the really interesting things about that discussion is that the author Rachel Kadish lives around here, and the host of our local book group discussion actually knows her quite closely and for years. So she was able to describe the decade of research, and some personal connections to it, and even which parts of the novel that we didn't read ended up on the cutting room floor. Rachel Kadish is accepting invitations to talk everywhere she can, and everywhere I lurk, she has just been. She is coming to our synagogue Friday night and some of us from the group are going to hear her talk.

Our group had some phenomenal insights and really interesting discussion. Now I am excited to see what happens here - and of course I will report back what happens after I hear her speak Friday night.

So how do I open the discussion? I suppose, I am interested in what most struck you, what questions remain, and what will you take away from a book like this? What stays and lingers long after the last page closes? I'm excited to share this with you all.

[Theresa]

Well, I think I've already chattered about a few of the subjects that excited me! I've gone back and removed the spoiler tags from my review... and maybe I'll just quickly list a few of the those that still, a week later, occupy my mind:

The suppression of women in general and of intellect in particular - not just in 17th century where women were not even allowed to be educated, let alone participate in philosophical or religious discussions, but also still more subtly in academia today as evidenced by Helen's story -- and the fact that Aaron is being left with this great discovery to reveal and benefit.

Guilt/forgiveness - especially Ester's feelings of guilt - were they justified? And if justified, is it forgivable?

Did the book have a 'happy ending' for Ester and for Helen? For Aaron?

I had just read that Kadish spent 10 years researching and writing this book - it shows, and we all benefit from it.

[KateNZ]

Like Theresa, it was the theme of women’s intellect that most struck me - most obviously with Ester, though more ‘understandable’ in the historical context, but deftly mirrored in Helen’s treatment by her department and colleagues. As someone who’s held a tenured position at university (law faculty), this really resonated with me - it’s too often a modern women academic’s story as well as one experienced by the marvellous women on whose shoulders we stand. Both of these characters were so uncompromising and direct - both labelled as unfeminine as a result, yet both with a richness that few others could see. Ester was so fortunate in her Rabbi, though - what a beautiful soul he was.

The growing respect between Helen and Aaron was another aspect that I loved. It felt so plausible and organic. Not an overnight switch from dislike to trust, but one fuelled by learning to listen to one another and appreciate the other person’s intelligence. Generally, it was lovely to see Aaron learn not to be such an annoying twerp. I guess I learned how to listen to him too :)

The book was beautifully researched but didn’t read like an essay. Both 17th century and modern history, philosophy and literary mystery all wrapped up in one pair of interlinked stories. So cool

[[deleted user]]

First, Amy I am so excited for you that you will have the opportunity to hear Rachel Kadish speak Friday evening. That is so wonderful.
Ester, I just loved her so much. Her thirst and quest for knowledge came from so deep inside. I think of the written word, the title of this book...The Weight of Ink. The title alone speaks volumes I think. For the Rabbi, his blindness took this from him. He could no longer write, he could no longer read. The written word was out of his reach but fortunately he had so many words seared within his heart and mind. Ester was so similar. Words, they were a lifeline to heart, her souls and her mind. Within those words she so desperately craved held the knowledge she longed for. The Weight of Ink, The weight of words, the weight of knowledge that both she and the Rabbi shared. I loved this aspect so much.

[Theresa]

And to carry Rachel's discussion of the weight of ink into the 21st century story, there is how the 17th Century ink, called 'iron gall' which speaks of heaviness, damaged the pape as experienced by Aaron and Helen, how the Parkinson's affected Helen's writing, the writing implement restrictions imposed on them especially the restriction of using only stubby ones. Then at the end of the 2 syories, those final letters, Ester's jewels, seemed lighter somehow.

I want to throw something out..there were many moments while reading about Ester and how she survived after the rabbi died and during the plague years, that very much brought to mind Scarlett O'Hara as portrayed in the book, not the movie. Neither Ester nor Scarlett are particularly likeable, and what kindness they show for the most part is based in a need to survive. Both are incredibly intelligent but constrained by society and to some degree circumstances. I hazard to say that Ester and Scarlett are made from the same cloth.

[Kszr]

Theresa wrote: "And to carry Rachel's discussion of the weight of ink into the 21st century story, there is how the 17th Century ink, called 'iron gall' which speaks of heaviness, damaged the pape as experienced b..."

I have to admit that when I read the last line I thought of the classic skit by Carol Burnett with the curtain rod.

The things that each woman does to survive, as the communities they come from do also, is a very important thing for us to examine, especially in the current political landscape in the US. It takes a strength of character and of perseverance to come through the darkness.

[[deleted user]]

I have never read Gone with the Wind sadly but this is an interesting thought you have. I didn't view Ester as unlikeable while I read the book, only has her sense of survival kicking in. But now that you have spoken it I can actually see that. Her survival is what drew me so deeply to her. Well that and her deepest need to learn.

[Jgrace]

I see the comparison between Ester and Scarlett, but I thought Ester had more redeeming qualities. She understood the pain she caused the Rabbi and she regretted it. She did take control of her own life, but she did it with some compassion for her father-in-law and with affection for her husband. Her last letter held the same compassion for her mother. Scarlett O'Hara was a strong woman, but she was completely self-centered and ruthless, even more so in the book than the movie.

[Theresa]

Jgrace wrote: "I see the comparison between Ester and Scarlett, but I thought Ester had more redeeming qualities. She understood the pain she caused the Rabbi and she regretted it. She did take control of her own..."

Yes, I agree, Ester is the far more admirable character. One similarity though that in particular struck me is how both women yearn to be different, to not be the strong one. In Scarlett, it was so strong that it contributed deeply to her selfishness. In Ester by contrast, she never turned completely inward, but instead directed it more outward, encompasding those over whom she had influence like Rivka. Ester feels compassion, Scarlett does not. In the end, Ester feels and receives happiness, peace, and love. Scarlett is forever struggling, fighting.

And what of Helen? She too exhibits selfishness from survival instinct. I hazard to say happiness eluded her, but at the very end, she attained peace.

[Theresa]

Rachel wrote: "I have never read Gone with the Wind sadly but this is an interesting thought you have. I didn't view Ester as unlikeable while I read the book, only has her sense of survival kicking in. But now t..."

I recommend reading GWTW. You will be surprised. Public perception has been so influenced by movie advertising designed to sell tickets, that it is almost shocking to read it and find it is really not a love story, but an antiwar novel, and the story of the death of a way of life and of what it took to survive and begin again.

[[deleted user]]

I really don't know why I have never read it to be honest with you. How I missed such a popular book I don't know.

[[deleted user]]

While I loved Ester, my heart broke for Helen. It really did. Throughout the entire book I was sad for her. Ester and Helen feared love it seems. For very different reasons but it impacted their lives so greatly. I agree, it seems that in the end Helen found some peace.

[Theresa]

Amy said something earlier this month in her review that I think merits some discussion, in particular as it relates to Helen and Aaron, and their story. And to Rachel's comment about how Helen broke her heart. Amy said:
How we narrate a life is also at the center of this book – how we make sense of our experiences. I have been thinking a lot about what the world opens to us, and what we open to it.

When I first met Helen and Aaron (and even Ester), I did not like them very much, found them unsympathetic, and essentially living the lives they deserved in one way or another.
Helen - the rigid judgmental academic who 'does not play well with others
Aaron - the brash arrogant American who has little respect for those more accomplished
I was not surprised of course that they were in conflict, disapproving of each other, barely tolerating each other. Yet Kadish did a tremendous job I thought of gradually and subtly changing our perceptions of them individually and of their dynamic in the book. Of course, that was because of Ester, of determining that there was a female scribe to a rabbi in 17th Century London. Why did that finding open the world, as Amy describes it, for Helen and Aaron?
Another moment was Helen's conclusion that there were more letters hidden in the house - something btw that I anticipated from early in the book, probably because I read mysteries and tend to question where I'm being led by the information provided by the author - didn't that also open the world for both Helen and Aaron? And in doing so, it have Helen peace and gave Aaron the promise of a life he almost missed - not so much as an academic, but with love and family.

[[deleted user]]

Theresa, I love your thoughts here, as well as Amy's original thoughts. I felt the same at the beginning with all three individuals. It took me the longest to warm up to Aaron but when I did, I really did. As the story moved forward, especially with Helen and Aaron I think Kadish did a wonderful job allowing those characters to show their vulnerabilities. The friendship that grew between Helen and Aaron touched me deeply and I would venture to guess impacted Aaron at the deepest level.

[Theresa]

I have another question to throw out...that Shakespeare/Ester link. What do you all think? I felt it just too contrived as if Kadish had to give Aaron a happy ending to his original dissertation topic and this is how she did it. It was definitely not needed to give Aaron his happy ending.

Did anyone else see that bit coming from very early in the narrative?

[Jgrace]

Theresa wrote: "I have another question to throw out...that Shakespeare/Ester link. What do you all think? I felt it just too contrived as if Kadish had to give Aaron a happy ending to his original dissertation to..."

Yes, I saw it coming, and it was a bit contrived. But, I'm a sucker for all things Shakespeare. I thought it also made sense, an explanation for Ester's extreme intelligence.

[KateNZ]

I didn’t see it coming, but I probably should have. I agree that it was contrived - not everything had to be explained or tied up with a bow. It would have been better to leave it more ambiguous at least

[Amy]

So sorry for weighing in so late, and potentially so unfulfillingly. I really so loved this book. KSZR and I had a local book group with three other women, and truly, we both thought it was a great discussion. But I held off sharing because I knew the author, Rachel Kadish, was speaking at our synagogue five days later, and I was so looking forward to her talk. Friends, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I fell asleep a number of times as she was speaking, and I was seated open, right in front of her, like turned outward at a table for ten, like 10 feet from the podium! This was upsetting to me, because she could never have known what the book meant to me, and how much i would never have wanted to disrespect. Also, I was one of the younger people in the room, so this felt pretty difficult to bear. True, I had just come from a Halloween party with my adorable panda, was trying to get used to new distance glasses, and sleep is not an easy feature of my life - but let me see if I can come up with a few blended highlights from both experiences, and then to respond to some of what I am hearing.

Rachel Kadish was a real modern day Ester and Helen combined. She told a story at the top of the talk about why writers write - and she said its "to tell the truth." She was as beautiful a speaker as she was a writer. She didn't talk as much detail about the book, as many folks in the room hadn't read it. But she did talk about some of her process, which was fascinating, and far more engaging than my body revealed. She spoke a lot about her research, and about how the writing flowed. Much of what she said dovetailed with our book group hostess, who is a friend of the author, and who witnessed the ten years of research and writing. My friend, the authors friend had told us two things. One, that there were more pieces, especially to Helen, that ended up on the cutting room floor, (so to speak.) Also, and the author echoed this herself, that the title wasn't originally the Weight of Ink. It wasn't until the absolute last days of the process, when she and the editor came up with it.

The people in our group loved the group, and were really moved by it. Thinking about the themes of being a woman, an intelligent woman in a man's world, the links between Ester and Helen. I think while Helen and Aaron weren't originally likable, they grew more likable, and it was moving to see their relationship develop and to see both of them deepen. I particularly loved the beauty of the words, and the relationship to rivers throughout the book, as the the book flowed so. I also loved the questions that Ester had, mirrored in Helen and Aaron, about the existence of God, and the point of life, and whether love was indeed possible. Also about what belongs to a person, and can ideas belong to one person versus another. We loved the twists and turns, deeply appreciated and shared moments of it.

I loved what Theresa said about relating Ester to Scarlett. I could see it in spirit, although Scarlett was no intellectual. She actually grew wiser and more socially conscious, while Ester grew more in feeling and learned how to live and love, and finally felt free - of her guilt, of oppression.

I actually loved how Aaron changed over the course of the book, and not just about the pages and what they meant, but learning about what Marissa meant to him, and being a father meant. What Judaism might mean. When I wrote the review I talked a lot about gaps, and I was very taken with the fact that Helen and Aaron could have never known what we knew about Ester and her life. Barely a word of it. They could only guess and somewhat glean a fact or two and try to put something together, while we understood something so much more profound. And especially about the links between them, and about what these experiences and discoveries would mean. What we got to understand was so much greater about the kinds of questions and losses and experiences each were having.

I liked the part about Shakespeare and the Dark Lady. In fact, I thought it was just perfect. I didn't see that coming, but I loved it. I hadn't really understood or made sense of the mother's story up to that point, except how it shaped Ester in terms of both social class and reputation, as well as the lack of viability of love and choice. The fact that it was a direction for Aaron to take for his dissertation was less important to me. It was more about something interesting and unexpected that added texture to a really terrific story.

Last to say, this is a book that stays with you, and its been interesting to experience what stays now that weeks are passing. I can say that the three books we read in my book club this year, are all in my top ten. The Weight of Ink, The Hearts Invisible Furies, the Hate You Give. Off the bat, I would say that We Were the Lucky Ones will be in there too, and there will be an unbelievable fight for the other six spots. How beautiful that this book manages to stand up, and for a very long time. I'm glad were still talking about it. This book merits that.

[Theresa]

Amy- what a beautiful summsry and discussion! Thank you for sharing. Don't be too hard on yourself about drifting off as our lives don't suddinly fall into perfect balance for events like that.

I had not consciously noted the river theme, just kind of accepted it as part of the scenery so to speak. But you are so right, and the flow of the river as a parallel to the flow of ink on paper as Ester scribes, both taking her away to safety/happiness as well as bringing her into danger.

Also while Judaism and in particular Judaism during the Restoration informs the story, I found the questions examined here fit any religion during times of upheaval and efforts of assimmilation. Hunger’s Brides: A Novel of the Baroque is a similar book, but set in late 17th Century Mexico during plague and inquisition years, with the rifts between Jesuit and Dominican Catholicism. Even in Villette, we see these conflicts examined, influencing lives, and affecting assimmilation, between British High Church Protestant, Belgian Catholics and Jesuits.

[Kszr]

Thank you all for your thoughtful, insightful comments. I have been processing my own thoughts, and the additional views have made the book a more intricate tapestry for me.

[[deleted user]]

Amy I laughed for sometime before I could finish reading your post. You fell asleep!! I cannot get over that and that is such a great story. Its a good thing I wasn't there because I am such a fangirl of Rachel Kadish that I would have drove you batty with my excitement.:) I would loved to hear of her writing process as well with research. I learn so much from different authors that really aide me in my own writing. But as a reader I love to hear these things as it makes the book so much richer for me. That her speaking is as her writing I love even more. Did she speak of the other pieces of Helen that did not make it in the book? As the weeks have moved on I have been thinking so much of this book and have really moved so much towards Helen in on of the things I loved so much of this book.
I have thought so much of Aaron as well and what might have been for him in the end. He moves to Israel, is a wonderful father and perhaps even embraces Judaism. I loved how he changed as the book moved forward because I didn't like him so much. But he grew and we saw a part of Aaron's heart and that is what I hold onto.
Oh, how I loved this book. It is in my top 10 this year as well.