The Old Curiosity Club discussion
Nicholas Nickleby
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NN, Chp. 21-25
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I don't like the way Reinhart and Bernard portray the Phenom. She looks like a Geppetto creation. I like Darley's portrayal much better.
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This chapter is a complete crack up. Great fun!!
The meter reader is going to marry an actress? Oh, my! Hire a new t..."
It is really a treat to figure out what a Crummles performance, a typical one, would have looked like. The pony alone would have been worth the pain trying to elbow one's way towards getting a ticket!
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I am glad that Nicholas was steered away from sailing. I don't know where he came up with that idea, but it seemed like a hard profession to pick given that he has no experience.But huh. So Nicholas is now in the theater. This, I was not expecting! Teaching, sailor, author/actor. Nicholas sure jumps around. As I was reading the theater chapters, I couldn't help but wonder if I had actually watched the entire TV series of Nicholas Nickleby, or if it was so long ago that I simply forgot, but I don't remember any scenes concerning the theater so this bit is all a surprise to me.
I do like how he seems to have fallen in with a group of well-meaning people finally, but I'm suspicious of how much he is to be paid. Isn't one pound a week an awful lot compared to the 5 shillings for being a tutor? So until he actually gets paid, I'm sitting on pins and needles wondering what the catch is.
I was a bit confused by the wedding chapter, I'm not sure where exactly that came from in that Lillyvick just happened to show up in the town that Nicholas is? It seemed a bit coincidental, although I've read enough Dickens books to know that Dickens seems to like his books to have multiple coincidences for whatever reason.
I do like the infant Phenomenon. I smile every time she is referred to. ha ha. And it is curious that there is no illustration for her.
Linda wrote: "Isn't one pound a week an awful lot compared to the 5 shillings for being a tutor?"Well you'd think so, but look at today's actors and educators. Teachers get peanuts in comparison.
I picture Nick as a young George Clooney (think of his Roseanne days). Again, like today's leading men, perhaps Nick's charm and good looks make people take him more seriously than he truly deserves. And overlook his bad temper!
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "George Clooney was on Roseanne?"Yes! A very early role for him, I think - certainly the first time I ever saw him. It was the first season, and he played Roseanne and Jackie's supervisor in the factory where they worked. His shtick was to spar with Roseanne (of course) and playfully pursue Jackie.
The character was typically Clooney, so not really like NN, but for whatever reason he's the image that pops into my head as I read.
PS Found a photo:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?vi...
Mary Lou wrote: "Well you'd think so, but look at today's actors and educators. Teachers get peanuts in comparison."Good point, Mary Lou. It's nonsensical.
Although when I first posed the question, I was thinking more along the lines of how Nicholas had been working to try and secure some sort of position and they all paid only shillings. Then here he happens to fall into acting and lo and behold, it pays a pound.
I had forgotten George Clooney was on Roseanne until I looked at the photo you posted!
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Saying that, I can also add that to my personal taste, there has been too much Clooney in the movies for me these past years, esp. with my beloved Coen brothers. He is not a bad actor, but I am just a bit fed up with him - which I could never be of a truly versatile and brilliant actor like Christian Bale or Russell Crowe.
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Then, however, I am sure Dickens would not have been particularly convincing in his seafaring chapters because he had no first-hand experience here, and so it is good we can profit from his knowledge and his love for detail in the Crummles scenes after all.
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Dickens and seafaring novels. That got me thinking. We have his adventures crossing the Atlantic for his first North American reading which were unpleasant, to say the least. I confess to not having read all the Sketches, but to the best of my knowledge while we may have sailors in a couple of Sketches none are set at sea.
Now, for the novels, again we do not have one that is a seafaring tale. We have all sorts of sailors, and characters that have just been on a ship or planning on boarding one, but no large part of a novel takes place at sea.
Perhaps GE gives us the best taste of the sea. We have Magwitch and then Pip, Herbert, and Startop rowing with Magwitch on the Thames. DS gives us the Wooden Midshipman, Captain Cuttle, and Bunsby. Walter and later his uncle go to sea, but the plot is not at sea.
Can anyone think of other seafaring, or sea-related characters or events? I’ve got another in mind but let’s open up the floor to us all.
Peter wrote: "Can anyone think of other seafaring, or sea-related characters or events? ..."Of course, there's Martin Chuzzlewit traveling across the Atlantic to find his fortune in America. That didn't go well, did it? ;-)
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Of course, there's Martin Chuzzlewit traveling across the Atlantic to find his fortune in America. That..."
Mary Lou
Good catch. You might say Martin got swamped in America. :-))
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And then let's not forget all the water-related events in Our Mutual Friend.
Even though none of Dickens's novels really plays on board a ship, there are lots of references to maritime (or freshwateresque) characters in them. But then, for an English writer, it might be rather difficult to avoid that topic altogether ;-)
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Would a “little” hint or two “steer” anyone in the right direction?
:-))
My memory is terrible! When you dropped the hint of "little", Peter, I instantly thought of Little Dorrit. Then I thought, "wait, have I read that one?". Yes, it turns out that I did read it. But I don't remember any seafaring in that one?I had to go poking about, and I believe your second clue is from David Copperfield and the character James Steerforth.
Oh my, by the time we loop back to the books I have already read, it will be like reading them for the first time again! :)
Linda wrote: "Oh my, by the time we loop back to the books I have already read, it will be like reading them for the first time again! :) "Probably the sweetest thing time could do to memory.
Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I would probably have enjoyed Nicholas's going to sea because I like seafaring stories, and I would also have liked to see Nicholas coming to terms with the hierarchy on board a sh..."Peter, I would submit that his recounting of one of his Atlantic Ocean journeys is the greatest account -- ever written-- of being seasick. I felt seasick just reading it.
The antidote was brandy and cold water. That does not sound helpful to me, though.
The antidote to sea sickness is drowning. Having been sea Sick I feel comfortable saying that death is a reasonable cure 😎
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Hi Linda
Well done. Yes I was referring to the novel David Copperfield which has, perhaps, the most seafaring characters and activity. “Little” was referring to Little Emily (albeit spelt Litt’l frequently in the novel) David’s first love and ”Steer” was, as you said, for Steerforth, David’s one time friend who ultimately betrayed David and ruined Little Emily’s virtue.
We also have the Peggotty’s who live in an upended boat and who end the novel by emigrating to Australia with Mr Micawber and his family. Lots of salt water and sailing in DC.
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Omitting the water will at least make the antidote palatable.
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Sick I feel comfortable saying that death is a reasonable cure 😎"
;-)
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Sick I feel comfortable saying that death is a reasonable cure 😎"
That's what my dad used to say about his one and only time on a ship, and that was only for a few hours.
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Linda wrote: "Oh my, by the time we loop back to the books I have already read, it will be like reading them for the first time again! :) "Probably the sweetest thing time could do to memory."
In that case my memory's getting sweeter by the day.
Very enjoyable reading through these comments as well as very informative. I am finally back to NN after taking a break to read another group read. I also did have a very slow time with the first of the theatre chapters and did fall asleep a few times. But I did enjoy it after getting into it a little further. I was glad to see the humor come into play finally. I was waiting for that after the reference to it and not really seeing any in the earlier chapters. It has moved along quickly once I got back to it.
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Hi Bobby
Glad you found some joy in the chapters. The book does pick up speed remarkably and it seems Dickens always produces a new character every few chapters. A bit annoying perhaps, but the characters are always full of quirks so I tend to embrace them.
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Bobbie, it is definitely unusual for a novel to open up so many side-scenes and side-plots, but trust in Dickens: He will, somehow or other, tie up all the loose ends ;-)
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"What's the demd total?"
Chapter 21
Charles Edmund Brock
Text Illustrated:
Such was the posture of affairs when Mr. Mantalini hurried in; and as that distinguished specimen had had a pretty extensive intercourse with Mr Scaley’s fraternity in his bachelor days, and was, besides, very far from being taken by surprise on the present agitating occasion, he merely shrugged his shoulders, thrust his hands down to the bottom of his pockets, elevated his eyebrows, whistled a bar or two, swore an oath or two, and, sitting astride upon a chair, put the best face upon the matter with great composure and decency.
‘What’s the demd total?’ was the first question he asked.
‘Fifteen hundred and twenty-seven pound, four and ninepence ha’penny,’ replied Mr. Scaley, without moving a limb.
‘The halfpenny be demd,’ said Mr. Mantalini, impatiently.
‘By all means if you vish it,’ retorted Mr. Scaley; ‘and the ninepence.’
‘It don’t matter to us if the fifteen hundred and twenty-seven pound went along with it, that I know on,’ observed Mr. Tix.
‘Not a button,’ said Scaley.
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"There's a picture," said Mr Crummles, motioning Nicholas not to advance and spoil it.
Chapter 22
Charles Edmund Brock
1931
Text Illustrated:
The landlord hurried into the parlour, without staying for further permission, nor did Nicholas strive to prevent him: wisely considering that supper, under the circumstances, was too serious a matter to be trifled with. It was not long before the host returned, in a condition of much excitement.
‘All right,’ he said in a low voice. ‘I knew he would. You’ll see something rather worth seeing, in there. Ecod, how they are a-going of it!’
There was no time to inquire to what this exclamation, which was delivered in a very rapturous tone, referred; for he had already thrown open the door of the room; into which Nicholas, followed by Smike with the bundle on his shoulder (he carried it about with him as vigilantly as if it had been a sack of gold), straightway repaired.
Nicholas was prepared for something odd, but not for something quite so odd as the sight he encountered. At the upper end of the room, were a couple of boys, one of them very tall and the other very short, both dressed as sailors—or at least as theatrical sailors, with belts, buckles, pigtails, and pistols complete—fighting what is called in play-bills a terrific combat, with two of those short broad-swords with basket hilts which are commonly used at our minor theatres. The short boy had gained a great advantage over the tall boy, who was reduced to mortal strait, and both were overlooked by a large heavy man, perched against the corner of a table, who emphatically adjured them to strike a little more fire out of the swords, and they couldn’t fail to bring the house down, on the very first night.
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This chapter is a complete crack up. Great fun!!
The meter reader is going to marry an actress? Oh, my! Hire a new type cast director . . . NOW! Save the poor woman.
I see that Portsmouth in NN is as small as London was in OT -- everyone falling over everyone else -- Lillyvick and Nicholas meet in Portsmouth in a theater?
Lillyvick is nearly 60?
What is it about Nicholas that older men like Lillyvick and Crummles wish to confide in a 19 year old and ask him for advice? Does Nicholas have that Oliver face?
I had to laugh when Crummless, speaking of the new actress, lauded her talent for standing on one leg while banging the tambourine on the knee of the other. What an eye for talent Crummles has :-)
And the blood drinking -- that whole bit -- having to cease and desist because it was just too "tremendous."
I'm rooting for a duel between Lillyvick and Folair. Tap dancing at 40 paces.
Smike the perfect Apothecary. Hilarious!!
Dickens is playing on history here. Apothecaries were notorious in 17th and 18th century England. One doctor commented that the only reason more people hadn't died from disease and other ailments in the 1600s was most couldn't afford doctors and apothecaries.