Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Moby-Dick - Reread
>
Chapters 126 - Epilogue + Book as a Whole
date
newest »
newest »
David wrote: Chapter 132. The SymphonyLooks like a typo in Ahab’s age. IHe’s 58. (40 + 18)
And whatever happened to Bulkington anyway? Is he aboard but referred to by his hometown instead of his name like most of the other crew?
Cphe wrote: "These last few chapters seemed to gain momentum and motor along.Did anyone else think the ending abrupt?
I'd turned the page expecting to read a little more to find that Moby had ended."
Yes! There was no "Ausklang" as we would say in German. Literally meaning to let a sound fade out like the striking of a bell and then the sound lingers and fades into nothing.
Typo fixed. Ahab is 58 years young again.RE: Bulkington:
this six-inch chapter is the stoneless grave of Bulkington.I not surprised to hear the last of Bulkington after that. However, I was surprised to learn in all of Ahab's 40 years of whaling, he only spent 3 of them on land. This put me in mind of Bulkington. Talk about the land scorching your feet! What was Ahab escaping by going to sea? Or what was he seeking, before Moby-Dick?
Who knew Frank Sinatra wrote a song about Ahab?Try and guess which one and then see if you think this applies to Ahab in these latter chapters or not.
(view spoiler)
David wrote: "Chapter 128. The Pequod Meets the RachelThe Rachel has lost a whaleboat with the captain's son aboard while chasing after Moby-Dick the previous day. Ahab refuses to help search for the boy in order to catch up with Moby-Dick now that he has learned he is so near.
Sad history. I never would see it by myself but my edition says that this story it's a analogy to the biblical Rachel. Poor Captain! To lose his 2 sons.
Cphe wrote: "These last few chapters seemed to gain momentum and motor along.Did anyone else think the ending abrupt?
I'd turned the page expecting to read a little more to find that Moby had ended."
I thought it rushed too. But, great ending.
I am the only one who is happy for Moby Dick surviving Ahab?
Wow! What a story! What an ending! Just as the whaling ship crew likely had to endure long periods of tedium and hard work, there were chapters that were perhaps a bit more tedious or rather arduous to wade through...but then there was the drama..the hurricane, the whales..THE whale! I think reading with this group made a big difference in understanding and sailing through this book as it were. Thank you! I was trying to recall which chapter had the predictions by Fadullah to Ahab about what would have to happen prior to his death; such sounded rather reassuring at the time as so unlikely, but was quite interesting to see how it evolved in actuality , in all its horror!
Rafael, I am with you in being glad Moby Dick outlasted Ahab. To me, this was a story about obsession set afire by emotion and how it can pervert a character adversely and against all reason (his mental circuity increasingly entrenched) and a story about others being under the complete reign of such a person who is steering them not upon reason but upon purely emotional notions.
Yet even so, there are fleeting moments of humanity within this obsession. Pip was a threat to Ahab's obsession...thus off to the cabin he must go. Starbucks spied such moments in Ahab and reached out only to have such glimmers snuffed back to the darkness of the obsession. There was something in Starbucks that called out to Ahab...perhaps seeing a bit of his former self or a person whom he could be, if only. Alas, Starbuck's 'O Captain, My Captains' came to naught....despite such slight unraveling at times of the thick obsession that was Ahab's.
Sue wrote: "Rafael, I am with you in being glad Moby Dick outlasted Ahab. To me, this was a story about obsession set afire by emotion and how it can pervert a character adversely and against all reason (his..."
Yes, I’ve read MD before but this was the first time I realized Moby Dick most likely survived—again!
David wrote: "Who knew Frank Sinatra wrote a song about Ahab?Try and guess which one and then see if you think this applies to Ahab in these latter chapters or not.
Lol. Exactly.
Sue wrote: "Wow! What a story! What an ending! Just as the whaling ship crew likely had to endure long periods of tedium and hard work, there were chapters that were perhaps a bit more tedious or rather arduou..."There were definitely slow patches on our journey, but I flew through the last two week’s readings. I think Chapter 117, The Whale Watch, is the one with Fedallah’s prediction. My reading and understanding benefited greatly from everyone’s thoughts and comments, and thanks to our fearless discussion leader as well!
Sue wrote: "Rafael, I am with you in being glad Moby Dick outlasted Ahab. To me, this was a story about obsession set afire by emotion and how it can pervert a character adversely and against all reason (his..."
Insightful comment! I thought the encounter with The Rachel showed how far from common humanity Ahab’s obsession had taken him.
While reading The Chase chapters, I found this video of a breaching sperm whale as he leaps into the air. Yikes! https://youtu.be/85UXx5Vf8Dk
As well as monomania, Ahab seems to suffer from hubris. Perhaps making your living by killing these enormous, powerful whales can create a sense of more control over nature than you (or anyone else) has. This is tangential, but there are so many Biblical references in MD that I’ll throw this one in, too. I’ve been thinking of the passage in the Bible in the Book of Job where God cites the Leviathan as proof of his power and the smallness of man. Seems to me a whaler might get a little cocky reading it and saying we do (some of) those things to whales. And that last line—
Job 41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
Just a quick note to say many thanks to David for leading the discussion, and for all the great comments. Sorry not to find time to be so active on the forum myself this time, but I have been following the discussions and was pleased to at last make it to the end of Moby-Dick. As with my previous attempt, I got a bit bogged down in the middle section (digressions into cetology, whaling history, etc), but was lucky enough to pick up a second wind this time and make it to that dramatic finale.
Like Macbeth, the prophecy about Ahab's life and death was very unlikely to happen. But the arrogance that put them in the heights brought them down.
I think the ending is made even more tragic by the use of the word only.It was the devious-cruising Rachel, that in her retracing search after her missing children, only found another orphan.It seems to imply that the captain's son was not found, and from their perspective, the miraculous rescue of Ishmael, after floating for two days on a coffin in shark infested waters, seems a disappointment to them.
Thanks, everyone for the fantastic adventure. I'm still a little asunder... especially regarding fate vs. individual choice. Still, I loved the reading. At points in these last few chapters I found myself covering my eyes and saying "oh, I can't look!" I *almost* cried for The Rachel, and I *almost* cried at the way Queequeg came through for Ishmael in the end.But, well, Ishmael keeps whaling after this crazy encounter with the white whale. Why? Has he taken on Ahab's mission? Or has he simply decided he was meant to be a whaler (he doesn't have to pursue Moby anymore)... what's with the constant quest?
Also, kudos to Melville on this wonderful microcosm. Everyone on the adventure was quite different, but all become united in the great face of nature- some kind of awesome thing binding humanity. Huzzah!
Finished the text last night--thanks to everyone who kept commenting and making me think over what I'd read and to David for setting up each chunk of discussion.I too felt the ending was bit abrupt, but I think it was a small fault--I was almost expecting the epilogue to have a few more comments about the entire episode (given that Ishmael has explained everything else to us!), but it probably would have been too much if he had. This way, it's left to the reader to figure out.
It's interesting what Philbrick has to say about Moby Dick the whale--I think he's right; Moby Dick is just a whale (if just can be used here), but it's what Moby Dick represent to Ahab that matters.
I have the Norton edition, with some critical essays after the text--I haven't gotten to them all yet, but it was interesting to see that the text of the first American edition was different than its English counterpart. Melville had a chance to correct more things in the English version, but to complicate matters, his English publishers chose to edit some objectionable material and make changes on their own. So nobody's exactly sure what Melville's 'original' consists of, though most of the changes (and the Norton lists them all) looked more to be stylistic than substantive. The main difference, that I can see, and why I put this here instead of the background discussion, was that the English publishers chose to omit entirely the Epilogue, and to place the Etymology and Extracts at the end rather than the beginning. I'm not sure I ever understood exactly Melville's intentions behind E&E, but I know if I'd found them at the end, I would have pretty much ignored them, thinking they were incidental. At the front, at least, they take on an added importance.
If they were at the end some will ignore them. It was smart to put them at the beginning, sure, people could still ignore them, but at the beginning they were seem more important that if they were at the end. But to me they are very important.
Bryan wrote: "Finished the text last night--thanks to everyone who kept commenting and making me think over what I'd read and to David for setting up each chunk of discussion.I too felt the ending was bit abru..."
Very interesting. I can’t imagine the book without the Epilogue. We know from the Town Ho chapter and other references that Ishmael survives, so without the Epilogue, it would become a puzzle how he survived (although I guess the clues are there). But it would be very powerful to end with the image of the sea rolling on.
There would seem to be a certain realistic feel to an abrupt ending without wrapping things up, as spare as Melville does, in an epilogue. Everyone died and mortality is such an in situ process that an epilogue almost seems out of place. But Ishmael does survive and he gives us enough to explain his survival.I never felt it was about Ishmael anyway, if that was his name. He was just a bystander. His only influence on events seems limited to choosing Queequeg's ship. He had no significant discourse with anyone that altered events. He didn't save anyone, or cause anyone's death, and he did not influence any of the thoughts, discussions, or decisions made on board the ship.
David wrote: "I never felt it was about Ishmael anyway, if that was his name. He was just a bystander. His only influence on events seems limited to choosing Queequeg's ship. He had no significant discourse with anyone that altered events. He didn't save anyone, or cause anyone's death, and he did not influence any of the thoughts, discussions, or decisions made on board the ship. "So true.
I do know that at some point I would like to re-read this again and take in a lot of what I glossed over the first time. I already knew the way the story ended, to a large degree, though I didn't know the details--concentrating on those plot details sometimes made me miss incidentals.
Cphe wrote: "Susan wrote: "Sue wrote: "Rafael, I am with you in being glad Moby Dick outlasted Ahab. Do you think that the physically closer Ahab got to Moby the greater his obsession and his actions more erratic/frantic?
****
I agree. The destruction of the quadrant and the refusal of the Rachel’s plea, for example (although Ishmael does point out that the Rachel’s request is unusual, since ships don’t usually hunt so long for missing whaleboats. But contrast Ahab’s reaction with Stubb’s)
Kerstin wrote: "David wrote: "I never felt it was about Ishmael anyway, if that was his name. He was just a bystander. His only influence on events seems limited to choosing Queequeg's ship. He had no significant ..."Ishmael is the reader’s guide to the world of whales and whaling, but seems more of a dreamy, philosophic type than the typical man of action like Queequeg, Stubb, or even Ahab. Since he is the only survivor, though, he can tell any story he wants ;) — just like the Ancient Mariner. But he seems pretty reliable as a narrator.
David wrote: "I think the ending is made even more tragic by the use of the word only.It was the devious-cruising Rachel, that in her retracing search after her missing children, only found another orphan.
I..."
Good point. I figure the Rachel has been searching for awhile: after meeting the Rachel, the Pequod goes 3 or 4 days looking for MD before Ahab takes to manning the masthead, then awhile later they meet the Delight (no number of days given, just “the rolling waves and days went by..”), then the 3 days of the chase, then the day Ishmael spends floating on the lifebuoy/coffin, so at least a week and probably longer has elapsed by the time they find Ishmael.
Dave wrote: "Just a quick note to say many thanks to David for leading the discussion, and for all the great comments."I second that! Very helpful summaries and comments, and everyone's comments made it possible to get through this leviathan of a book! I loved reading it again, it has been many years and I barely remembered the details. There were definitely slow and challenging parts, but the final chapters were so exciting, so rich in detail and realism. What a ride!
Susan wrote: "As well as monomania, Ahab seems to suffer from hubris. Perhaps making your living by killing these enormous, powerful whales can create a sense of more control over nature than you (or anyone else..."One of the things I found poignant is that we do get to know Ahab a little better, and we see that the men truly care about him. There is something charismatic about him, but he is also a tragic figure, undone by his pride and hubris, as you point out. Several times we are told that the crew are as if "enchanted" or fascinated, either by the whale itself or by Ahab's obsession, and feel bound to him and his fate.
On the other hand, so many times Ahab has the opportunity to turn away, but refuses. He won't even listen to Starbuck's heartfelt pleas. Starbuck pleads for himself and for the men, but you do get a sense he does truly care about Ahab as well. But Ahab acts as if he is possessed by some sort of demon and allows his obsession to overwhelm even his most human feelings. To some extent, it seems he is unable to help himself (he feels doomed, fated to kill the whale or die trying), but he also refuses, again and again, the opportunities to save himself and his crew.
Bryan wrote: "I do know that at some point I would like to re-read this again and take in a lot of what I glossed over the first time. I already knew the way the story ended, to a large degree, though I didn't k..."I'm with you Bryan, looking forward to the eventual reread.
Just back from a vacation in London visiting family and then escaped to Edinburgh to recoup from visiting family :)I'm catching up on all the threads, and I echo many of the sentiments already expressed. I had read MD before but I got so much more out of it this time as a result of all your comments and insights.
To sum up my thoughts of the novel, I'd say I found it uneven. Parts of it were brilliant and breathtaking. I particularly loved Ahab's soliloquy in Chapter 132, my favorite chapter in the book. It was Shakespearean in stature--reminding me of King Lear's final roar. But I found some parts to be very slow reading. I would be willing to participate in a reread--but not real soon :)
Looking forward to our next read. Thanks to all and a special thanks to David for skillfully navigating us through choppy waters.
Susan wrote: "although Ishmael does point out that the Rachel’s request is unusual, since ships don’t usually hunt so long for missing whaleboats. But contrast Ahab’s reaction with Stubb’s..."
I'm thinking that Stubb's reaction was due to the feelings of guilt he carries because of Pip.
I'm thinking that Stubb's reaction was due to the feelings of guilt he carries because of Pip.
Adelle wrote: "Susan wrote: "although Ishmael does point out that the Rachel’s request is unusual, since ships don’t usually hunt so long for missing whaleboats. But contrast Ahab’s reaction with Stubb’s..."Good point. His feelings about searching did seem to change when he learned the missing boat had the captain’s son.
Yes, I have to say I did not feel the ending too abrupt..death does that..but I am glad to have that wee bit more to know of Ishmael's survival so to tell the tale (btw I can understand the Captain of the Rachel being sad that his son was never found but rather 'only' found Ishmael). Alas, thank you all for helping me make it through the choppy waters/chapters as someone above stated and to sail with me through the fun ones; making it an illuminating adventure in all! And to you, David, Captain, my Captain, thank you for guiding us so expertly and so well!
Sue wrote: "Yes, I have to say I did not feel the ending too abrupt..death does that..but I am glad to have that wee bit more to know of Ishmael's survival so to tell the tale (btw I can understand the Captain..."I have to echo Sue's comments. I was thoroughly engaged in the chapters prior to boarding the ship, then things became uneven for me and bogged down at times, and the last 3 chapters zoomed by. I probably would not have continued without reading all the interesting comments by the group. I am so happy I stuck with it. Wonderful writing, and I got an education to boot!! Shortly after I finished, I got Philbrick's slim book Why Read Moby-Dick out of the library and went back to re-read some sections. It also gave me a better appreciation for Melville and his life experience and how he expressed himself through his various novels.
Reading the novel for the first time I was not fully aware of a dynamic going on within the novel, even though it was more than hinted at, and it was touched upon in our discussions. There was something I couldn’t quite put my finger on, and I had to get through this first reading first. Once you’ve read the epilogue it becomes clear that the novel is not a linear story, but a circular one. On the first reading one naturally focuses on Ishmael the character, on the second reading one has the freedom to focus on Ishmael the narrator. I’m not quite ready yet to embark on this second reading, I am quite happy on terra firma right now.
Call me Ishmael. The literal meaning of the name is God listens. The immediate question that comes to my mind, God listens to what?
Enter the story of Jonah with all its parallels and allusions . Jonah, “the reluctant prophet, who does everything a prophet should not,” states Lawrence Boadt. In Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction he makes these remarks:
”The author of the Book of Jonah knew that his audience would enjoy the story and not be forced to choose whether it could actually have happened or not, or whether the fish was a whale or shark. Only in modern times have people forgotten the ability of the Bible to tell stories imaginatively to make its points, and tried instead to explain everything “scientifically.” Jonah is a rousing tale of a prophet gone off the deep end, so to speak. The author makes some important points about prophecy and the nature of God without ever losing his sense of humor while creating his outrageous tale and its several separate plots.”Throughout Moby Dick Melville never loses his sense of humor.
Going back to the epilogue, Ishmael didn’t just survive the sinking of the Pequod, he is saved to serve a greater purpose. When Jonah tries to run off to Tarshish, the ship he is on runs into trouble, because he didn’t listen to God. Nineveh is saved, because they listened to God.
Now that I’ve worked out the frame on which the story rests it becomes easier to pick it apart. What “Mißstände” (deplorable states, abuses, defects, disgraces, outrages) is Ishmael/Jonah warning us against that will lead to ruin? This would call for a second reading, I missed too many connecting details because I had yet to grasp what to look for.
Kerstin wrote: "Reading the novel for the first time I was not fully aware of a dynamic going on within the novel, even though it was more than hinted at, and it was touched upon in our discussions. There was some..."Do you think Ishmael is a castaway that has taken upon himself that second lesson from Jonah as the Father Mapple described in his sermon by telling his story, with all of its philosophical asides, to us?
Jonah did the Almighty's bidding. And what was that, shipmates? To preach the Truth to the face of Falsehood! That was it!
"This, shipmates, this is that other lesson; and woe to that pilot of the living God who slights it. . . .Yea, woe to him who, as the great Pilot Paul has it, while preaching to others is himself a castaway!"
Not polished...bit disjointed actually... But how can I leave Ahab without a word or two?
I choose to believe that Ahab was saved. In the battle for his soul, he was the worthiest character aboard The Pequod..
“Whence then cometh wisdom?” Job asked. “and where is the place of understanding?”
Forget the owners and the crew and Ahab’s societal responsibilities towards them, I read the book as Ahab fighting for his soul. A worthier man making a greater effort than any man aboard the aptly named Pequod. We’re all going to die. How hard do we fight for meaning while we’re here?
Ahab loses his leg. He’s aslant---physically, emotionally, most importantly spiritually. A man can’t make a deal with the devil unless he believes at his core in the existence of God. Such was Ahab’s background. He refuses… he harnesses his great heart and immense will and he REFUSES to be left thus without meaning. {Calvanism… meaning of God behind events.} So the meaning is behind the mask? By God, Ahab will go all Jim Morrison and will break on through to the other side.
“Yes, the world’s a ship on its passage out, and not a voyage complete, and the pulpit is its prow” (45). Ahab captain’s his ship. Nothing… NOTHING makes him put aside his quest. We know he holds in his heart nostalgia for Nantucket (the sand…).
And he’s more soul than any man aboard. That heart-rendering scene:
“Slowly crossing the deck … Ahab leaned over the side, the more and the more that he strove to pierce the profundity…. That winsome sky did at last stroke and caress him; the step-mother world, so long cruel…now threw affectionate arms round his stubborn neck, and did seem to joyously sob over him…. Ahab dropped a tear into the sea; nor did all the Pacific contain such wealth as that one wee drop” (590).
Those 40 years. Like unto the 40 years the Israelites spent in the desert searching for the Promised Land.
Ahab…stays true to Ahab. “Ahab is ever Ahab, man.” Stubb: “And damn me, Ahab, but thou actest right; live in the game, and die in it!”.
“Can it be,” thinks Ahab, “that in some spiritual sense the coffin is, after all, but an immortality-preserver!” The body is finite. The soul immortal. I like to believe that at the end Ahab realized the Truths he was searching for.
I choose to believe that Ahab was saved. In the battle for his soul, he was the worthiest character aboard The Pequod..
“Whence then cometh wisdom?” Job asked. “and where is the place of understanding?”
Forget the owners and the crew and Ahab’s societal responsibilities towards them, I read the book as Ahab fighting for his soul. A worthier man making a greater effort than any man aboard the aptly named Pequod. We’re all going to die. How hard do we fight for meaning while we’re here?
Ahab loses his leg. He’s aslant---physically, emotionally, most importantly spiritually. A man can’t make a deal with the devil unless he believes at his core in the existence of God. Such was Ahab’s background. He refuses… he harnesses his great heart and immense will and he REFUSES to be left thus without meaning. {Calvanism… meaning of God behind events.} So the meaning is behind the mask? By God, Ahab will go all Jim Morrison and will break on through to the other side.
“Yes, the world’s a ship on its passage out, and not a voyage complete, and the pulpit is its prow” (45). Ahab captain’s his ship. Nothing… NOTHING makes him put aside his quest. We know he holds in his heart nostalgia for Nantucket (the sand…).
And he’s more soul than any man aboard. That heart-rendering scene:
“Slowly crossing the deck … Ahab leaned over the side, the more and the more that he strove to pierce the profundity…. That winsome sky did at last stroke and caress him; the step-mother world, so long cruel…now threw affectionate arms round his stubborn neck, and did seem to joyously sob over him…. Ahab dropped a tear into the sea; nor did all the Pacific contain such wealth as that one wee drop” (590).
Those 40 years. Like unto the 40 years the Israelites spent in the desert searching for the Promised Land.
Ahab…stays true to Ahab. “Ahab is ever Ahab, man.” Stubb: “And damn me, Ahab, but thou actest right; live in the game, and die in it!”.
“Can it be,” thinks Ahab, “that in some spiritual sense the coffin is, after all, but an immortality-preserver!” The body is finite. The soul immortal. I like to believe that at the end Ahab realized the Truths he was searching for.
Adelle wrote: "Not polished...bit disjointed actually... But how can I leave Ahab without a word or two?"Well said. Ahab certainly seems to exhibit some admirable traits. He cannot be accused of being spineless. But let us not forget he is fatally flawed. We all seem to gravitate toward people who are strong and purposeful, but Ahab's purpose was ultimately misguided. What makes him better than the the lead lemming who is first to go over the cliff taking the rest of the herd with him? What separates him from that ultra-passionate American Idol contestant who refuses to believe they absolutely cannot sing and is apparently surrounded by a crew of friends that don't have the decency to inform them of the fact?
What, as a leader of a misguided lost cause, makes him so praiseworthy? What about other leaders of misguided lost causes like Jefferson Davis and his leadership of the Confederacy in order to preserve slavery, or Hitler. Sorry to go all Reductio ad Hitlerum on you but Ahab's seduction of the crew to wage a war of revenge against Moby-Dick is often compared to Hitler's seduction of Germany to wage a war of revenge upon the world.
And what of his other responsibilities to the ship owners, his crew, not to mention his wife and child? We recently criticized Odysseus for misleading and misusing his crew, but decided to cut him some slack because the hoi polloi cannot keep up with heroes and the situations they create. Is Ahab such a hero?
Is it not wiser to accept things without resigning than not accept things at all?
I wonder what Ahab would have done if Fedallah did not talk in riddles like a Shakespearean witch and told him straight up that chasing Moby-Dick would cause the death of himself and everyone else, save one? Would Ahab had still gone after Moby-Dick then?
He is certainly a force to be reckoned with and memorable, but at best he is an example of what not to do and of who not to follow. Or maybe he is an example of who the rest of us need to fight harder to save?
David wrote: Do you think Ishmael is a castaway that has taken upon himself that second lesson from Jonah as the Father Mapple described in his sermon by telling his story, with all of its philosophical asides, to us?What an interesting idea. One I would have to ponder, as Ishmael was not prominent in the story once they got aboard the Pequod. As everything unfolded and other characters appeared to have a much more important role in the story, I had wondered why everything started with Ishmael. Until the end of course, when he was the sole survivor and the only one left to tell the tale. How do we know it was the truth? Is he reliable?
Adelle wrote: I choose to believe that Ahab was saved. In the battle for his soul, he was the worthiest character aboard The Pequod.. Boy, I can't wrap my head around that one, although you made a passionate defense of your statement. I thought he was totally of one mind to seek revenge against Moby without thought to his crew. A leader who does not keep the welfare of his crew in mind has lost a piece of his soul if not all of it and acts accordingly. He may seem heroic in his dogged determination, but I think he had long been broken inside.
Very interesting theories, Kerstin and Adelle, and great questions to ponder as I put MD back on the shelf until the next time. Is there something special about Ishmael that leads to his survival? The line from Job suggests more randomness to me, but then how do the references to Jonah (and the Ancient Mariner) fit in? Ahab does have qualities of a great soul, (which adds to the force of the tragedy) — but he also seems to have given himself up to evil forces — the “baptism oath” he gives his new harpoon and his attachment to Fedallah and his prophecies, for instance. The good men on the Pequod seem to be Starbuck, (whose integrity Ahab acknowledges by trusting his life to Starbuck when he goes aloft, but who is unable to influence Ahab and/or the crew to leave off the quest), and Queequeg.
David wrote: "Do you think Ishmael is a castaway that has taken upon himself that second lesson from Jonah as the Father Mapple described in his sermon by telling his story, with all of its philosophical asides, to us?Jonah did the Almighty's bidding. And what was that, shipmates? To preach the Truth to the face of Falsehood! That was it!
"This, shipmates, this is that other lesson; and woe to that pilot of the living God who slights it. . . .Yea, woe to him who, as the great Pilot Paul has it, while preaching to others is himself a castaway!"
The short answer is yes.
The entire ending is steeped in symbolism. The last three chapters are three horrific days of combat with Moby Dick. This is not coincidental. These three days are echoed in the three days in which Jonah is in the belly of the whale, and these have always been interpreted as a foreshadowing of the three days Christ spent in the underworld from his death on Good Friday to his resurrection on Easter Sunday - death and rebirth.
Even without these biblical references almost drowning at sea is a life-changing experience. It irrevocably marks life before and after. It is a paradigm shift, as we’ve seen foreshadowed by Pip. From now on everything is seen in a new light. When Jonah finally goes to Nineveh he tells them the truth about their wickedness. Now it is Ishmael’s worldview that has shifted, and he is compelled to tell the truth about Ahab.
The way I see Ahab, he is a man who externalizes his own paradigm shift of losing his leg. He makes the whale responsible as if it had a capacity for evil. A creature acts according to its nature, not with conscience, so this is highly absurd already. Since Ahab is unchecked in his pursuit of Moby Dick all around the globe, which is another absurdity, he unleashes ruin and suffering on multiple levels, including his own death. In this maelstrom he takes with him the crew except Ishmael, but he also causes suffering and loss for the families left behind and the owners who lost their investment. (Were they shrewd enough to insure with Lloyd’s?)
David wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Not polished...bit disjointed actually... But how can I leave Ahab without a word or two?"Well said. Ahab certainly seems to exhibit some admirable traits. He cannot be accused of ..."
Well said David.
Looking at the Pequod as a microcosm, you wonder why the officers, Starbuck, Stubb, and Flask were such flounders. Being part of the leadership, woudn't you think that part of their responsibility is keeping tabs on Ahab and if necessary intervene? Since the ship sank, their legacy is as enablers.
David wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Not polished...bit disjointed actually... But how can I leave Ahab without a word or two?"
Well said. Ahab certainly seems to exhibit some admirable traits. He cannot be accused of ..."
Ah, but I didn't read it primarily as a literal story. I usually don't. It's a story---to me---of Ahab's emotional/spiritual/psychological struggle. From my perspective, Stubb, etc... only there in "the story" to aid the reader---me---in seeing Ahab.
I loved it.
Well said. Ahab certainly seems to exhibit some admirable traits. He cannot be accused of ..."
Ah, but I didn't read it primarily as a literal story. I usually don't. It's a story---to me---of Ahab's emotional/spiritual/psychological struggle. From my perspective, Stubb, etc... only there in "the story" to aid the reader---me---in seeing Ahab.
I loved it.
Adelle wrote: "I choose to believe that Ahab was saved. In the battle for his soul, he was the worthiest character aboar..."Ahab's soul was definitely in grave peril. But I don't see in him a desire to be saved. His mad need for revenge leaves no room for that. Among his last words we hear,
"I turn my body from the sun. ... from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee..."
There is no remorse, there is no repentance, there is no humility in his stance. He is defiant to the last.
Coincidentally, I've just finished reading Dante's Purgatorio with another group. In Canto V there is a character named Manfredo. Dante is surprised to see him there, for his father is in hell, and Manfredo was no better. Manfredo tells the story how he came to be in purgatory, i.e. being saved, but his soul still needs purification. He is on the battlefield dying, his throat cut. A demon is already coming for his soul to whisk him to hell. With his last breath he whispers the name of the Blessed Virgin, seeks her intercession for his soul, and it is granted.
In the moment of death Manfredo is aware enough to take care of his soul. In contrast, for Ahab revenge is more important, and he already made the decision to turn from the sun, that is to say, to turn away from God.
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
Purgatorio (other topics)Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction (other topics)
The Pequod continues on by the repaired line and log in a calm seemingly before a storm. Flask and the men hear plaintive cries which the Manxman says were the voices of newly drowned men. Ahab laughs and explains they are only the cries of seal pups and their mothers looking for each other. The first man that mounted the mast to watch for Moby-Dick in his home waters falls into the sea and is lost because the lifebuoy thrown in after him has aged and degraded to the point it sinks. Queequeg offers his coffin be made into a replacement lifebuoy, how ironic is that? The carpenter does not seem too pleased with the decision but does the work grumbling about repurposing a thing alreaady made as a job that is beneath him.
Chapter 127. The Deck
Ahab too is struck by the irony of turning a coffin, which he calls an immortality-preserver, into a life preserver.
Chapter 128. The Pequod Meets the Rachel
The Rachel has lost a whaleboat with the captain's son aboard while chasing after Moby-Dick the previous day. Ahab refuses to help search for the boy in order to catch up with Moby-Dick now that he has learned he is so near.
Chapter 129. The Cabin
Pip is ordered to stay in Ahab's cabin while Ahab is on deck. Pip protests and laments his cowardice and his own loss as if he was still alone on the sea but vows to stay in the cabin even if the ship strikes rocks and sinks.
Chapter 130. The Hat
With Moby-Dick reported so near, Stubb ceased to smile, Starbuck stopped trying so hard not to smile: I take this as a nervous smile. Everyone felt Ahab watching them all. But all watched Ahab, and Fedallah too who never seemed to go below decks and barely acknowledged each other but there seems a clear sense that they were joined, Ahab the master, and Fedallah the slave. They all seemed joined to Ahab.
Ahab becomes suspicious that those on watch are shirking their duty and he ascends the mast to look for himself. A bird steals his hat and drips it into the sea; another bad omen.
Chapter 131. The Pequod Meets the Delight
The Delight, the most unsuitably named ship we have met, has recently lost 5 crewman to Moby-Dick and are in the process of burying the only body recovered from the encounter. As the Peauod attempts to turn away from the burial at sea, The Delight makes remarks about fleeing the funeral service on their ship but carrying the coffin-turned-lifebuoy. Does death chase The Pequod?
Chapter 132. The Symphony
There is a harmony between the feminine softness of the air and her thoughts manifested as its birds flitting about, and the masculine sea with his chest-like waves heaving and his thoughts manifested in its murderous fish, but these two entities with their distinctly different genders, seem only shades of the same whole.
Someone previously asked about Ahab's early career as a harpooner. Here it is and in addition we learn Ahab is 58 years old and has spent less than 3 years ashore since starting that career. He sounds to me like a Bulkington.He seems to air out some regret as well. Can we make something of the first chapter'sand Ahab's declaration here:.Then Ahab gives a great soliloquy, for Starbuck had stolen away, on fate, determinism, and agency. Then he crosses the deck and looks in the water at what is reflected in the water. Does this mean he see himself again reflected in Fedallah's eyes. Is that the key to it all?
Chapter 133. The Chase - First Day, Chapter 134. The Chase - Second Day, Chapter 135. The Chase - Third Day
I will leave these three chapters to you, with these thoughts from Nathaniel Philbrick,
Epilogue
The drama is done. . .The Rachel in searching after her missing children only found another orphan.