RotE1: The Farseer trilogy (BR)

[Anthony]

So this thread will be for folks to post — with spoiler tags — about any or all of the three books in The Farseer Trilogy: Assassin's Apprentice, Royal Assassin, and Assassin's Quest.

Looking forward to hearing folks’ thoughts and impressions!

[Anna]

For those who are starting the first book, Assassin's Apprentice, for the first time, please use the established threads for discussion:

First impressions *no spoilers*
Finished reading *spoilers*

Once you start the second book in the trilogy, move the conversation here. Naturally it's allowed to talk about the first book here, too, but since it's a past group read, let's try to make sure that the majority of the discussion that's only about the first book stays in the official threads.

For full schedule and details of Realms of the Elderlings buddy reads, go here!

[Kaa]

Thanks for clarifying, Anna. I wasn't sure how to approach all of the different threads.

[Eric]

I'm about mid-way through Royal Assassin. I was a fan of the wolf at the start. Now, I'm really liking this four legged character.

[Anthony]

Eric wrote: "I'm about mid-way through Royal Assassin. I was a fan of the wolf at the start. Now, I'm really liking this four legged character."

Yes yes yes (view spoiler)[His relationship with Fitz, and the manner in which Fitz uses their relationship, is one of the most compelling aspects of this novel, to me. How far along into their interactions are you at this point?> (hide spoiler)]

[Eric]

Anthony can you show the spoiler trick to me. I assume it's some HTML thing? Hide and view?

Wolf just blasted one of the coterie. I don't think that reveals too much.

[Mareike]

Anthony wrote: "Eric wrote: "I'm about mid-way through Royal Assassin. I was a fan of the wolf at the start. Now, I'm really liking this four legged character."

Yes yes yes [spoilers removed]"

Aaaah! You've met him!! (view spoiler)[I LOVE the wolf. (Avoiding the name because I'm not sure uf you've learned it yet. My particular fondness for him is definitely due to having grown up with large dogs, I think.) Their relationship has so much depth and grows beautifully over the course of the books. I love how sarcastic he can be and how his outlook on life is so different to Fitz's and makes him reevaluate certain things. (hide spoiler)]

This is another one of those elements that could feel stereotypical and cliché, but Hobb handles it so well and makes it truly her own. And again, the fact that all her characters are unique, fully fleshed-out personalities really helps with that.

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: " And again, the fact that all her characters are unique, fully fleshed-out personalities really helps with that."

I agree. Hobb developed the four legged character from the very beginning as the cub. I have since learned its name. And I just found the spoiler tag, so will try that.

(view spoiler)[Nighteyes (hide spoiler)]

[Anna]

Eric wrote: "Anthony can you show the spoiler trick to me. I assume it's some HTML thing?"



Click on "(some html is ok)" in the top right corner of the text box (on desktop version) as you're typing your post to copy/paste the code. Or go to this help page if you're not on the desktop version.

[Eric]

@Anna: Thanks found all the above.

[Anna]

Eric, yeah I noticed that after I'd already posted :D Oh well, it's there should someone else need it :)

[Eric]

Anna, probably not a bad idea to repeat these hints periodically. Everybody is a newbie once. :)

[Gabi]

Royal Assassin: Regarding the wolf: (view spoiler)[ I love how his view of circumstances is led by quite sensible, quite natural, and therefore quite logical instincts. Whereas the conduct of the human beings is marked by rather questionable upholds of loyalties and a rather large amount of exclusion of common sense. (hide spoiler)]

[Eric]

Gabi wrote: "Regarding the wolf: [spoilers removed]"

Wolf is 'mint' !

I am much farther into now. The deceit and treachery is amazing. I wonder if Hobb has some Agatha Christie genes in her?

[Mareike]

Gabi wrote: "Regarding the wolf: [spoilers removed]"

I agree! (view spoiler)[He is such a good counterweight to the forces of the court and, sometimes, especially Chade (about whom I have a lot of conflicting emotions). In some respects, Chade and the wolf could be considered foils for each other, I think. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

Eric wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Regarding the wolf: [spoilers removed]"

Wolf is 'mint' !

I am much farther into now. The deceit and treachery is amazing. I wonder if Hobb has som..."
The twists and turns are always fun for me. Robin Hobb frequently surprises me with developments I never would have expected. I also enjoy re-reads so I can come back and see all the little hints and clues I didn't notice the first time.

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: "I agree! [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I'm sure we can all agree we loathe Regal. I marvel how some authors can devise such miscreant characters. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Gabi wrote: "Regarding the wolf: [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Also loving his pack mind about sharing everything, and Fitz then desperate to set him some 'human boundaries'. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Regarding the wolf: [spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed]"

Haha, yes! He can be a source of much needed comic relief.

@Eric: Agreed.

[Jemppu]

Eric wrote: "...The deceit and treachery is amazing..."

Seriously, I was pleasantly surprised. The amount of court intrigue in this succeeds even the last one: constant scheming, and drama around royal duties and loyalties, and clashes between ranks and social statuses... (loving it!)

Also (view spoiler)[ Seafaring! Finally! Excitement increased ten folds. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Eric wrote: "...The deceit and treachery is amazing..."

Seriously, I was pleasantly surprised. The amount of court intrigue in this succeeds even the last one: constant scheming, and drama around ..."

Oh my God, Jemina! (view spoiler)[ you will absolutely LOVE the second trilogy in this cycle. I can't wait for you to get there. I might even throw my plans over board and re-read those along with everyone else. (hide spoiler)]

[Eric]

@Mareike, @Jemppu: Quite the roller coaster! I pushed the clock last night on a chapter and then had to re-read it again this morning to be sure I got it right.

[Mareike]

Oh! Which one of them? Can you share underneath a spoiler tag?

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: "Oh! Which one of them? Can you share underneath a spoiler tag?"

(view spoiler)[Chapter 29, Escapes and Captures. The king dies. "Royal Assassin," book two. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Oh yes. That one is a lot. I definitely stayed up way too long reading that.

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: "Oh yes. That one is a lot. I definitely stayed up way too long reading that."

This book is also chipping into my classical guitar practice. lol!

[Gabi]

Eric wrote: "
I am much farther into now. The deceit and treachery is amazing. I wonder if Hobb has som..."

(view spoiler)[I have to admit, that those court schemings made me skim pages. I hope there's less in following books. For me this is like too much of a good thing. I started to stop caring. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

@Gabi, I must ask, since this has come up with other work, and I suspect it might have jumped on you as well: any opinions on the name "Justin" here?

Because, for me (view spoiler)[ it rings even worse here than it did on ST. Sounds way too modern, although it has apparently been around since Middle Ages. (hide spoiler)].

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "...Oh my God, Jemina! you will absolutely LOVE the second trilogy..."

This is exciting!

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "@Gabi, I must ask, since this has come up with other work, and I suspect it might have jumped on you as well: any opinions on the name "Justin" here?

Because, for me [spoilers removed]."

It's the "Tiffany Problem"! (https://amp.reddit.com/r/writing/comm...)

I'm endlessly fascinated by things like this. Here's another example (under a tag so people who aren't interested can ignore it more easily. (view spoiler)[ So: apparently, the Victorians were totally into nipple piercings. Like, it was a THING. For both men and women. But write that into a historical novel/fantasy novel modelled on that era and people would think you're projecting modern trends into the past. (hide spoiler)]

Basically, what we think we know about the past is very often incomplete or influenced by re-writings or omissions.

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "@Gabi, I must ask, since this has come up with other work, and I suspect it might have jumped on you as well: any opinions on the name "Justin" here?

Because, for me [spoilers remov..."

Yes... which is why it's probably good the name is what it is here - so that audience get used to seeing such names in historically inspired context as well *applauds*

[Eric]

Gabi wrote: "Skimming"

This word was buried in the "spoiler." I will say that I skim also, but then things catch up and I end up re-reading to find the gems I missed. I am sure I am not alone in this, regardless of the book.

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "@Gabi, I must ask, since this has come up with other work, and I suspect it might have jumped on you as well: any opinions on the name "Justin" here?

Because, for me..."

Yes! Though I wonder whether Hobb had to fight her editors about keeping that name precisely because it would seem out of place.

[Gabi]

Jemppu wrote: "@Gabi, I must ask, since this has come up with other work, and I suspect it might have jumped on you as well: any opinions on the name "Justin" here?

Because, for me [spoilers removed]."

Tbh, the name didn't evoke any opinion at all. For me none of the names (be it common names or destiny names) made me think twice (with the exception of fitz, what has been clarified in another thread) It's a fantasy novel, so I go with what is thrown at me :)

@Eric: usually I don't skim through the pages. But with longer stories it sometimes happens, when I realise that only a part of the going ons can pique my interest. Most notably was the last book of the Song of Ice and Fire saga, where I not only skimmed, but completely skipped whole POVs.

[Mareike]

Well, ADwD is the weakest book in that series.

To me, what was so intriguing, and sometimes frustrating, about all the court intrigues was that Fitz didn't pick up on some things that were staring him in the face. But then, since it's a story told in retrospect and he's so young (God, he's so young in those first books....), that made perfect sense to me at the same time.

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: "Well, ADwD is the weakest book in that series.

To me, what was so intriguing, and sometimes frustrating, about all the court intrigues was that Fitz didn't pick up on some things that were starin..."

Yes, Fitz is young and naive. (view spoiler)[However, as Chade points out, Fitz cannot grasp that he is but a piece on the game board and when he goes off on his own, he destroys the strategy of the game player. (hide spoiler)]

And @ Gabi: I read Fire and Ice so long ago I don't remember much of how I read it, but I do remember "slow" spots where it was easy to spot enough to maintain the thread while just turning pages. Skim, skim. BTW, I have never watched any of the televised "Game of Thrones" series.

[Mareike]

Yes. (view spoiler)[But that is also why I am of two minds about Chade. For him, the throne comes before everything else, even protecting the family member closest to him. It's a little more complicated because the throne is family, of course, but he always puts the institution first. Even though he knows so well what it is like to be in Fitz's shoes. And that's where Nighteyes comes in as his foil. For him, "we are pack" is the guiding principle, after all. (hide spoiler)]

As for ASoIaF (view spoiler)["court time with Dany" (as we call it in my circle of friends) is such a draaaag. (hide spoiler)]

[Eric]

Mareike wrote: "Yes."

Gotta love wolf. I finished book two and have started book three, "Assassin's Quest."

[Anthony]

Regarding Chade, (view spoiler)[ I’ve been under the impression that the vow made to Shrewd had a certain amount of magical bonding/binding built into it. Being a “King’s Man” seems to be something that goes beyond honor. Am I the only one who feels this way? (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

End of book Royal Assassin: (view spoiler)[ apart from my personal quarrel with historical court scheming drama tropes, I just have to say, that my heart is completely with the Fool. The mysteries around this doomed, fragile and yet so wise character completely dragged me in. I hope for more in the future.
The Fool and Nighteyes are my personal heroes here. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Royal Assassin: Anthony wrote: "Regarding Chade, [spoilers removed]"
(view spoiler)[ I had the impression that this meant, that one of the aspects of that was, that the person in question was drained for the Skill of the King. Not sure If that was the case with Chade, but Burrich said something along that line. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Uh oh … I've just seen that the third book is over 900 pages. This will take some time.

[CBRetriever]

don't be discouraged - I made it through all of them

[Gabi]

CBRetriever wrote: "don't be discouraged - I made it through all of them"

:D - I'm certain of that … but I was thinking about reading the first trilogy before the start of the Connie Willis BR, which of course I won't do now.

[Eric]

Gabi wrote: "Uh oh … I've just seen that the third book is over 900 pages. This will take some time."

Goodreads says 757 pages. There could be previews of coming books at the end of "Assassin's Quest." I personally like longer books. I am only through all the introduction stuff in "Quest."

[YouKneeK]

It depends on which edition you look at. Since Gabi isn’t in the U.S., maybe the edition she has access to has a different page count than the edition shown by default on Goodreads? On Goodreads’ “Editions” page, the page counts are all over the place.

757 matches up with the U.S. Kindle edition I have. And the U.S. Kindle edition of book 2 is 675 pages, so book 3 is about 12% longer than book 2. That might make it easier to estimate how long it will take to read by comparison.

Either way, I can see how it would throw a wrench in the plans to finish it before a buddy read that’s scheduled to start in 4 days! As an FYI for planning purposes, most of the books from here on out are pretty long, in the 700-900+ page range. The exception is the Rain Wilds subseries where the books are only 433-545 pages. (Going by U.S. Kindle edition page lengths, anyway.)

[Eric]

Thanks YouKneeK.

A German translation could be longer, given the Germans use gender specific articles for names of things and the adjectives must follow the gender rules. Also, many verbs are at the end of sentences extending sentence length perhaps. Changes in tense are another matter altogether.

Different editions of varying length for the same book makes sense.

[Gabi]

Eric, YouKneeK: it was the kindle edition that stated so many pages, but I had to switch to audiobook, cause I have to get a project done this weekend, which forbids me to sit and read. (the audio is 37 hours)

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "Regarding Chade, [spoilers removed]"

Absolutely.

(view spoiler)[Already on the account of them both being of the Farseer's bloodline, and the 'magical' being so closely ingrained to all the members of that clan and their interractions.

And by extention to the people they choose to include in their lifes, educate in their ways, and who will then have the reguired level of understanding and skill to abide to that level of loyalty - ie. the King's Men and the Skillusers.

But! Before agreeing, this prompted a thought about the general definition of 'magic' in that realm. (And maybe this is all obvious and/or irrelevant, but fresh for my brain)

(cut for lenghty flow of thought) (view spoiler)[Because the line between 'real' and 'magical' seems to me rather vague in this reality in general - the 'magic' seems like it exists as a natural part of the world, but only few have the comprehension of it, and for most of the rest it seems unnatural, because they don't have enough knowledge of it or open-mindedness to accept something which they can't understand.

Could the situation be comparable to / inspired by real life history of studies/schooling/research - such as any field of science - and the way they've been perceived in the past?

Those in positions to devote time to studies have the chance to gain knowledge and comprehension of the subject - of the wider world around them. And those who do not, are left to rely on folktales, rumors and legends.

And who have that chance, are of course the royals with priviledge to education and those under their wing - their most loyal servants/confidants. Most 'common folk' with no opportunity for education or those with no desire to study (including most daft of the noble), are then left to view 'magic' as something foreign and strange, much like any real life sciences would've seen for the uneducated.

Fitz might have a natural knack for i'magic', coming from a long line of educated nobles (or it might be coincidence - like with many other non-Farseer kids?), but he too requires years of studying before he can read and write use his skills properly. Luckily he's given that chance. Unlike ie. Molly, who has to go on her own, devote her time to taking care of her drunk dad and to earning a living, and even when in court is tasked with chores rather than free for any academic studies.

Supported by how the Skill/Wit users are constantly depicted as the 'scholarly types: Verity constantly depicted studying geography and drawing sophsticated maps, Skill apprentises studying reading, writing and calligraphy. Studies of medicine and potions even, not only on both the assassins, but also the 'closeted animal lover' Burrich. And the way which Kettricken & co have to study scrolls to gain further knowledge of the legendary Elderlings, and make a presentation of it with them.

All such scholarly stuff. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

A bond/vow made between two educated men would naturally be based on all of their knowledge, and thus include also terms based on their connections to 'magic'.

...I suppose - just a whimsical thought to perhaps add something for perspective. Though there went another perfectly good artsying evening 'wasted' for this whim *hah*

[Mareike]

Slightly random rambling:
I listened to a keynote by Robert Olen Butler earlier today and among the things that stood out to me, this was maybe the one that made the biggest impression:

"If you carefully examine the yearning of any central character in a fully realized work of fiction, you will find that he yearns for a self, for an identity."

I think he has a point for fiction in general, but that line just immediately made me think of Fitz. I think someone has mentioned the melancholy nature of the novels before and I think that yearning for an identity definitely plays into that.

Anyway, just felt the need to share that. Make of it what you will.