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Intersectional Feminism > How do you reply when someone says, “but not alllll men...”

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message 1: by Heather (new)

Heather | 5 comments I honestly have no idea what to say when this happens. I find myself upset but flustered and unable to argue my position. What would you say?


message 2: by Heather (new)

Heather | 5 comments Also! How do you even talk to people about feminism? I am super shy and really hate confrontation, but this is something I believe in! And I really want to learn how to tell people about it!


message 3: by Michaela (new)

Michaela (yuvilee) | 124 comments Depends on what is argued.

Could be either "but not all women", or "but some men and others do not speak up" or "what is your point, what do you want to say?".
I think it's difficult to answer without having one particular situation in mind where this argument is used.


message 4: by Michaela (new)

Michaela (yuvilee) | 124 comments I think asking questions is a good way to talk about feminism without confrontation. If someone says sth sexist then ask why they are saying that, if they realize that it can be/is hurtful, what their thought behind it is, etc. Question the stereotypes of others, because often those are things they don't really think about.


message 5: by Heidi (new)

Heidi | 7 comments It depends on the situation. There's a couple responses I have to qualify overgeneralizing statements like " enough that it matters" or "there are always outliers". But what I want to address more is that the phrase "all men" can be alienating. I think an important distinction in a feminist argument is the distinction between an overgeneralization and just facts of society. For example, "All men are pigs" as generalization vs "Men get paid more for the same jobs" which is a statistical fact.


message 6: by Susan (new)

Susan Edelman (beyourownbrandofsexy) Heather, Can you give an example? I'm not sure I understand.


message 7: by Robin (new)

Robin (z_rob) | 128 comments Hello Heather,
I think you could say that that real feminism isn't about putting every man in the same bag and taking people case by case.
I'm a bit like you, I mean I'm not a fan of confrontation. Anyway, in a case you're talking with open-minded and comprehensive people, you have to right to say what you think, politely but resolutely. If you know you're in front of narrow-minded people then talking to them might not be worth the confrontation.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Hello!

First I would say that some people are super narrow-minded, they will not question themselves and won't consider any single of the point you will approach. Just don't waste your energy/time with them.
Michaela brought a good point, questions are a good way to avoid direct confrontation but in my opinion you will still confront the person.
If someone is making generalization, an example that shows his/her point may not be valid is a good start. You may also use a more sophisticated manner, you can tell another generalization for which both of you will agree it wrong and ask "what do you think about your first thoughts now?".

I mean this is not exhaustive at all and every situation will be different. In that case, confidence and attentiveness may be keys, the more you'll talk about feminism to people the less you will feel uncomfortable/shy I suppose.

Good luck 😉


message 9: by Debbie (new)

Debbie When I was as younger I had encountered so much sexual harassment while taking walks or riding my bike that it caused me to seek other ways to exercise. This is when I started joining an exercise club or exercising at home.
Later in life I hated to go for walks or ride my bike. I didn’t associate the negative experience with my past. I tried to explain this to my husband at the time but he couldn’t understand. He said, “You are a sexy beautiful woman who should take this as a compliment.” I struggled with a way to make him understand. Then I saw true crime movie in which a male cop was raped by a gang of men. Then I realized if they can’t relate put it in a way that they could. So I asked my husband how would he feel if someone whistled, followed and made rude comments to his twelve year old daughter. He said he would be furious. I then asked him if our daughter should feel like this was a compliment. He became even more upset. Then I said this is how I feel and it’s not a compliment. Therefore I will continue to exercise is a safe environment.
Sexual harassment is very misunderstood. Try to put it in a way so the the other person can see it as horrific as you. Hopefully they can see the ugliness of this problem.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Debbie wrote: "When I was as younger I had encountered so much sexual harassment while taking walks or riding my bike that it caused me to seek other ways to exercise. This is when I started joining an exercise c..."

👍 Quite good strategy!


message 11: by Pam (last edited Sep 04, 2018 05:44AM) (new)

Pam | 1091 comments Mod
Heather wrote: "Also! How do you even talk to people about feminism? I am super shy and really hate confrontation, but this is something I believe in! And I really want to learn how to tell people about it!"

Completely understandable.

Like anything, talking about your convictions becomes easier over time the more you practice. So keep asking questions here on OSS, post comments about your experience, read other's stories etc.

And take solace in the fact that we're not asking you to become a great debater (Great if you do!). What we and your friends and family want is a way to understand what makes you tick. And if it's feminism or baking or jiu jitso or Ohm's law or whatnot... anyone who cares about you wants to know what you think. We want to know you; your passions, your dislikes, your interests, etc. And for everyone else.... who cares?


message 12: by MaryJane (new)

MaryJane Rings Debbie wrote: "When I was as younger I had encountered so much sexual harassment while taking walks or riding my bike that it caused me to seek other ways to exercise. This is when I started joining an exercise c..."

Well said and a very good analogy.


message 13: by Heather (new)

Heather | 5 comments Thank you all so much!! I am very grateful for the advice you have given me and I will try my best to use it! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!! ❤️


message 14: by Sascha (new)

Sascha | 391 comments Here is a comic strip by Maryne Lahaye adressing this issue:

https://ibb.co/mohhZe


message 15: by Debbie (new)

Debbie Sasha
Thanks for sharing the comic!


message 16: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments reply with the truth there are too many men that are doing and men as well as women need to foucus on that. till it is no men.


message 17: by Benarji (new)

Benarji Anand | 153 comments lol. Yeah, that's the standard reply that you get from people because everybody believes that we are all different but yet so similar on the inside. How you wanna reply to that? Just say, "who's talking about you here? We're talking about men who ..."

That is if you wish to still continue the discussion but obviously it is going downhill from there.


message 18: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Faltesek | 17 comments I usually say something like 'I know it's not *all* men, but it's such a massive proportion of men that we still need to address it. The odds of a woman being raped are 1 in 5. It's not just 12 guys going around doing that. I know you are trying to clarify your position, and I can understand how this subject could make you uncomfortable, but the reality is that this is a huge problem, and we HAVE to talk about it."


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