Questions to Ask When Beloved Books Haven't Aged Well

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

CBRetriever wrote: "but this topic is about specific books - there's another thread based on problematic authors. That thread is ore of a free-flowing expression/discussion and some of the posts here belong there more..."

Also an excellent point. We have another thread. Please, if we must go through these arguments again, please help me by confining it to one thread I have to set to email me anytime someone responds.

[Baelor]

My broader point is that discussion needs to actually involve interaction; otherwise, it is simply a series of monologues. If agreement or support of others is allowed, then disagreement and respectful pushback should be as well. If the latter is unacceptable, then simply instruct everyone not to respond to anyone else's post for any reason whatsoever. Problem solved.

Someone in this discussion asserted that different actions -- which are entirely the point of this thread in the first place -- are appropriate depending on whether a book is fiction or non-fiction. It is therefore entirely within the purview of this thread, as stated, to seek specific clarity on why different actions are, in fact, appropriate given different genres etc.

I am really not trying to be contrarian or obtuse, but I am somewhat disenchanted with de facto policies that prevent posters from engaging in stimulating disagreements that lead to deeper and well-founded thought precisely through being able to respond to rebuttals and requests for justification.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

No. Not in the context it was initially stated. I am following along. I see the genesis of these conversation threads.

If you'd like to reframe the question to ask what sorts of variables go into the types of questions we ask ourselves upon reading different types of problematic content, that would be great, and each person could answer individually. We have to know going in that there will not be consensus, because this is a matter of personal experience and taste. We won't sway minds, and we don't get to tell them they're wrong for that personal opinion.

If we can keep the conversation there, by all means, go on!

[Baelor]

I am having trouble understanding the implications of your post. Could you elaborate on the following:

1) How does one express that one believes another is wrong in this thread? Or are you asserting that "Truth is not truth" like Rudy Giuliani and that we are all equally correct regardless of whether our beliefs are mutually exclusive? By your reasoning about personal experience and taste, you would permit, for example, someone to advocate OSC's works on the basis of his anti-homosexual rhetoric for whatever reason, correct? Because that position is a "personal opinion" and thus not subject to open disagreement, correct?

2) Why should your belief in the inability of any mind to change through intellectual conversation preclude all such conversation? Could I create my own thread precisely for such a conversation?

The second point is actually more salient than the first. I would actually like to create a thread in which I argue against not reading books and have people poke holes in my argument so that I can see it is untenable or simply reinforce its potency.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

You may start any thread you want and it will be moderated per the group rules. If you don't understand the difference between the way you asked your question and the way I suggested, i definitely think it's time we move on from discussions that require this level of sensitivity. Let's pick things to debate that don't dismiss real people's life long struggles. Let's disagree about things other than someone's right to be respected for who they are. That isn't up for opinions here. May I suggest one of the book discussions for last month? There was lots of disagreement there.

[Ine]

Wow this thread makes me think of Dune! One of the few books I didnt finish and Im still bitter about it (I mean, giant alien sand worms, if thats not awesome I dont even know)

Ive seen it on so many "best of" and "timeless classics of the genre" lists I had to give it a try.

But the misogyny and homophobia... ugh. I felt so betrayed by all those list making people!

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Here's my thing: Just because you wrote a book doesn't mean I have to read it. And I don't have to separate anything - I don't have to like you to read your book AND I don't have to read your book if I don't like you.

Anytime I hear people start lecturing about how reader/reviewers "have to" not conflate the author with the book - I say hogwash! Stop trying to force me to agree with your POV. Also, there's an entire section of literature based entirely on the author and their influence on their own works.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

MrsJ, is this for the authors on GR thread?

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Allison wrote: "MrsJ, is this for the authors on GR thread?"

No, I'm just now catching up with this thread - first notification this month.

Maybe 'you' isn't the best word.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

OOH I'm back on track, my bad! Yep, I agree, we get to make choices about to read (or not) and why. Ine, it's true, there's so many books that just do not hold up, or that have this glaring thing we just can't see past, even if we want to. I look at most lists and think "who...wrote this?? And for whom? Why do they get to pick and what am I going to do with this now?"

Usually the answer is "scurry back to things I like" ;-)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Quickly scurry.