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Moby-Dick - Reread > Chapters 71 through 82

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message 1: by David (last edited Aug 22, 2018 02:18PM) (new)

David | 2859 comments Chapter 71. The Jeroboam's Story
The Pequod meets the Jeroboam. The Jeroboam's Captain refuses to board the Pequod for fear of spreading a disease, despite Ahab's not fearing the epidemic. The Jeroboam had been taken over by a strange religious fanatic calling himself Gabriel. When asked about Moby-Dick, Capt. Mayhew tells the story of a man who was killed by Moby-Dick after lowering for him against Gabriel's advice. An attempt to exchange mail with the Jeroboam reveals the letter the Pequod had been carrying was for the man killed by Moby-Dick. Gabriel returns the mail by impaling it on a knife and throwing it back. They depart leaving the crew of the Pequod to whisper among themselves.

Chapter 72. The Monkey-Rope
Does our free will shrink in the interdependencies of another or society? Is self-reliance confused with free will here? Is it just me or is being asked to stand on and strip a rotating bleeding whale in the midst of sharks in a feeding frenzy asking too much? I am not sure what to make of the ginger scene, other than being thankful for Stubb to once again providing more comedy relief.

Chapter 73. Stubb and Flask Kill a Right Whale; and Then Have a Talk Over Him
Stubb and Flask discuss Fedallah; what Stubb would do to Fedallah; what Fedallah might do to Stubb, while towing a whale back to the ship. We learn of the superstition of hanging a sperm whale head on once side of the ship and a right whale head on the other, and that Fedallah urged Ahab to do this. Ishmael makes a metaphor of it demonstrating the problem of trying to balance too many philosophers
So, when on one side you hoist in Locke's head, you go over that way; but now, on the other side, hoist in Kant's and you come back again; but in very poor plight. Thus, some minds for ever keep trimming boat. Oh, ye foolish! Throw all these thunder-heads overboard, and then you will float light and right.
Is the question here, are no philosophers better than a balanced number of philosophers?

Chapter 74. The Sperm Whale's Head - Contrasted View
While the sperm and right whales heads are weighing the ship down but keeping the keel even, Ishmael compares and contrasts the heads. He discusses the eyes being on opposite sides of the head and therefore the whales inability to see straight ahead. Of course they did not know about their echolocation abilities back then. For those who do not like so much science in their novels, dated as it is, this little sidebar may inspire you to see things differently:

You're Eye-to-Eye With a Whale in the Ocean—What Does It See?: A deep dive into how the most intelligent creatures in the ocean perceive their world.

The article has some pretty great pictures too. Be sure to view this huge composite picture that doesn't quite render correctly from the article on my browser.

Chapter 75. The Right Whale's Head - Contrasted View
What should we make of this last paragraph? Are these the only two choices?
Can you catch the expression of the Sperm Whale's there? It is the same he died with, only some of the longer wrinkles in the forehead seem now faded away. I think his broad brow to be full of a prairie-like placidity, born of a speculative indifference as to death. But mark the other head's expression. See that amazing lower lip, pressed by accident against the vessel's side, so as firmly to embrace the jaw. Does not this whole head seem to speak of an enormous practical resolution in facing death? This Right Whale I take to have been a Stoic; the Sperm Whale, a Platonian, who might have taken up Spinoza in his latter years.
Chapter 76. The Battering-Ram
Ishmael describes how the sperm whale's head seems obviously built like a battering ram and could be used as such. Hmm. . .foreshadowing?

Chapter 77. The Great Heidelburgh Tun
More sperm whale head anatomy, this time we are told where the whale's junk, no not that junk, and spermaceti is located. Setting things up for the next chapter.

Chapter 78. Cistern and Buckets
Queequeg performs his second life-saving rescue, this time he saves Tashtego who had fallen into the head of a whale while recovering oil. I am not sure what to make of the question this all leads Ishmael to ask us,
How many, think ye, have likewise fallen into Plato's honey head, and sweetly perished there?
It sense it has something to do between passive thinking vs. action as demonstrated by Queequeg's life-saving actions.

Chapter 79. The Prairie
Ishmael attempts to regard the whale as an amateur physiognomist, by studying its face, and a phrenologist, by studying its skull but decides he cannot and we can read those features for ourselves, if we can. What I don't get in this chapter is, how is the chapter title, The Prairie, relevant to its content? My only guess is that this chapter, like a Prairie, is broad and empty. Or is the quote from chapter 75 a clue to which can also apply as to phrenology:
a prairie-like placidity, born of a speculative indifference. . .
Chapter 80. The Nut
Ishmael discusses the whale's brain and decides that such a small brain in such a large animal
The whale, like all things that are mighty, wears a false brow to the common world.
Phenomenologically Ishmael decides the whale has no need for esteem either in itself or towards others but places more emphasis on its spine. He declares that I rejoice in my spine, as in the firm audacious staff of that flag which I fling half out to the worldand that a large vertebra in the gives the whale its hump which:
From its relative situation then, I should call this high hump the organ of firmness or indomitableness in the Sperm Whale. And that the great monster is indomitable, you will yet have reason to know.
Chapter 81 The Pequod Meets the Virgin
The Pequod meets a German whaleship, aptly named The Jungfrau, who's captain, Derick, visits the Pequod to obtain some oil for his own lamp. On his way back to the ship, whales are spotted and there is a race to harpoon an old bull whale, obviously in some distress. The boats from The Pequod get to the whale first but they have to let it go when it starts to sink and nearly pulls The Pequod over. Ishmael seems to feel a little sympathy for the laboring old whale, with not one, but two harpoons in him, one of which is made of stone. The Jungfrau is last seen proving her inexperience by mistaking an uncatchable Fin-Back whale for a sperm whale. Ishmael informs us Oh! many are the Fin-Backs, and many are the Dericks, my friend. which seems like an observation that we are to apply more generally about the world.

Chapter 82. The Honour and Glory of Whaling
Ismael takes great liberties and poetic license to declare the knightly days of his profession in which certain ancient or fabled monsters were indeed whales killed solely to rescue humanity from them instead of for the profit of their oil putting Perseus, St. George, Hercules, Jonah, and Vishnoo and Coffins, i.e., nantucket whalemen, as members of the same club of heroes. Does anyone want to argue against him?


message 2: by Susan (last edited Aug 21, 2018 06:26PM) (new)

Susan | 530 comments Chapter 81 The Pequod Meets the Virgin

Yes, I thought Ishmael showed sympathy for the old, handicapped whale they were pursuing, too. And this chapter shows a cruel side to Flask who deliberately hurts the dying whale. (It seemed only poetic justice when the whale upset Flask and his boat). And once again Queequeg saves the day by being the one to break the chain holding the sinking whale to the Pequod.

The Jungfrau or The Virgin reminded me strongly of the New Testament parable of the foolish virgins who don’t have oil for their lamps. In this case, their foolishness leaves them like their captain in the dark, I guess.

Here’s the parable:

Matthew 25: Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom [a]is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour [b]in which the Son of Man is coming.


message 3: by Susan (last edited Aug 22, 2018 05:17AM) (new)

Susan | 530 comments Chapter 71 The Jeroboam’s Story

I got curious about the origin of “Jeroboam” and checked it out —it’s another Biblical reference. Among other things, Jeroboam was a King over ten tribes of northern Israel, and he built two temples to allow his people to worship a golden calf instead of worshipping God in his temple in Jerusalem. Jeroboam seems an appropriate name given the influence of the (false) prophet Gabriel on the ship’s company.

Reference is to I Kings 12:

Jeroboam thought to himself, “The kingdom will now likely revert to the house of David. 27 If these people go up to offer sacrifices at the temple of the Lord in Jerusalem, they will again give their allegiance to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah. They will kill me and return to King Rehoboam.”

28 After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.” 29 One he set up in Bethel, and the other in Dan. 30 And this thing became a sin; the people came to worship the one at Bethel and went as far as Dan to worship the other.[b]


message 4: by Susan (new)

Susan | 530 comments So, the Pequod has encountered four ships so far (if I’m counting correctly) and their names seem to be in sync with their behavior—
The Goney (The Albatross) passes without speaking, just like the original
The Town-Ho has a nice matey gam with the Pequod (although I don’t know how the name fits the story of Radney and Steelkilt)
The Jeroboam has its false prophet
The Jungfrau (The Virgin) has no oil (and appears unlikely to get any)


message 5: by Susan (new)

Susan | 530 comments David said: Chapter 82. The Honour and Glory of Whaling
Ismael takes great liberties and poetic license to declare the knightly days of his profession in which certain ancient or fabled monsters were indeed whales killed solely to rescue humanity from them instead of for the profit of their oil putting Perseus, St. George, Hercules, Jonah, and Vishnoo and Coffins, i.e., nantucket whalemen, as members of the same club of heroes. Does anyone want to argue against him?

****

A lot of his arguments here seem specious to me, especially his arguments about St George killing a whale instead of a dragon. He’s done this before in several places where he’s asserting the importance of whales — one previous example was how the King of England must logically be anointed with whale oil. It must be this way, Ishmael asserts, but really, it could be olive oil or neat’s foot oil or something else (and probably is). He gets a little carried away, I guess.


message 6: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments Anyone knows if Melville is right about the whale's brain? That the whale see two images in two separate parts of the brain because the eyes are so aparted one from another?


message 7: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments The article in the opening post linked to under chapter 74 says yes, the whale sees two distinct and separated visual fields without a common focal point but their echo location may make up for a lot of the missing picture.


message 8: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments David wrote: "The article in the opening post linked to under chapter 74 says yes, the whale sees two distinct and separated visual fields without a common focal point but their echo location may make up for a l..."

Ouch! Thanks I didn't see that there's a link. Great.


message 9: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments No worries. Thank you for letting me know it was missed. I have edited the post so the link stands out more now. Depending on what one is reading these comments on, it was probably a hard link to see buried somewhere among such a sparse and tiny post.


message 10: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments David wrote: "Chapter 72. The Monkey-Rope
Does our free will shrink in the interdependencies of another or society? Is self-reliance confused with free will here? Is it just me or is being asked to stand on and strip a rotating bleeding whale in the midst of sharks in a feeding frenzy asking too much? I am not sure what to make of the ginger scene, other than being thankful for Stubb to once again providing more comedy relief.o..."


I know that Ishmael says that his "free will had received a mortal wound." I don't see it. Ishmael still has free will to move as he will; to pull on the rope as he will; etc. As in life...he has free will which must be exercised within the circumstances of his life..

But for Ishmael here and for people everywhere... no matter the decisions and actions that we undertake ourselves... we can be undone by the actions of another [your banker, your druggist... the drunk-driver...the guy you're tied to by a monkey rope] over which we have no control... Maybe it had never been so visually obvious to Ishmael before.

Yet Ishmael, here, DOES have the ability to exercise free will and cut the rope if Queequeg goes under. Yes, "usage and honor...demanded" that the rope not be cut. That doesn't negate Ishmael's free will. He has a choice. He CAN cut the rope should he choose to. Also... this "usage and honor" rule applies only aboard the Pegquod...instituted by Stubb.

Maybe Ishamel is going to have to learn to go against the group or against what has been accepted by others as "the rules."

Regarding Aunt Charity's ginger tea, how, I wondered, did she even know that the harpooners (she mentioned them specifically) drank spirits? Or was it that she was specifically against the harpooners drinking spirits?


message 11: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments Susan wrote: "Jeroboam seems an appropriate name given the influence of the (false) prophet Gabriel on the ship’s company."

Just as a pathological liar will tell the truth on occasion, a false prophet may call the future correctly on occasion. He did seem properly forewarn Mr. Harry Macy of the Jeroboam not to lower for Moby-Dick. Are we sure he is a false prophet? I wonder what Elijah is up to?


message 12: by Adelle (last edited Aug 22, 2018 07:52PM) (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 73. Stubb and Flask Kill a Right Whale; and Then Have a Talk Over Him."

Couple of things. The "superstition" seems to have originated or been spread by Fedallah. That's the source Flask heard it from. Stubb, a seasoned seaman himself, had never heard of this. Indeed, Stubb is rather disgusted by the Right Whale "lump of foul lard." So...what does Fedallah want with the Right Whale?


The other thing that gave me pause was that short paragraph in which the sharks are circling about... rushing "
to the fresh blood that was spilled, thirstily drinking… as the eager Israelites did at the new bursting fountains that poured from the smitten rock."

There's a certain amount of ambiguity here. In Exodus, God had told Moses to strike the rock and then water gushed forth. But in Numbers, God told Moses to speak to the rock... and Moses disobeys... he struck the rock anyway. Through arrogance? Through dis-belief? God tells him he will be punished and those with him will be punished.

https://christianity.stackexchange.co...

The Pequod "was not commissioned to cruise for them [Right Whales] at all." Is Ahab in effect dis-obeying the owners? If so, why? And if so, what will happen to Ahab and the crew as a result?


message 13: by David (last edited Aug 22, 2018 08:27PM) (new)

David | 2859 comments Adelle wrote: "Couple of things. The "superstition" seems to have originated or been spread by Fedallah. That's the source Flask heard it from."

After reading that Fedallah was behind convincing Ahab of this "superstition" of suspending Right and Sperm whale heads on opposite sides of the ship I began equating Fedallah with personalities like Rasputin and Stevan Bannon. Then I remembered reading this:
[Fedallah] and his men from Manila are much more than infernal window dressing. They are essential to what makes Ahab Ahab because no leader, no matter how deranged, is without his inner circle of advisers, the handlers who keep him on task.
Philbrick, Nathaniel. Why Read Moby-Dick? Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.



message 14: by Susan (new)

Susan | 530 comments David wrote: "Susan wrote: "Jeroboam seems an appropriate name given the influence of the (false) prophet Gabriel on the ship’s company."

Just as a pathological liar will tell the truth on occasion, a false pro..."


*******

Ishmael presents Gabriel as a fake and gives example after example of his duplicity, starting with his descents “from heaven by way of a trap-door”. Ishmael also says “Nor is the history of fanatics half so striking in respect to the measureless self-deception of the fanatic himself, as his measureless power of deceiving and bedeviling so many others.”

Gabriel says The Jeroboam shouldn’t attack Moby Dick because he is “the Shaker God incarnated”. Given the normal hazards of whaling that Ishmael has presented so far (with maybe more to come) along with accounts of Moby Dick’s attacks and “the havoc he had made,” it appears that a prophecy of “speedy doom” to anyone who attacks MD has a higher than normal probability of coming true, either during the attack on MD or later on the voyage.

It’s interesting that Gabriel is somewhat like Ishmael as a novice whaler, “a strange, apostolic whim having seized him” to go to sea. And the pairing with Elijah earlier in the book is also intriguing. (There seem to be certain repetitions in this journey. Another example is Fleece’s sermon to the sharks versus Father Mapple’s sermon to the seamen)

As for the accuracy of Elijah and Gabriel’s predictions about the Pequod, time (and many more pages) will tell ;)


message 15: by Susan (new)

Susan | 530 comments BTW, thank you, David for the great summaries, probing questions, the links to pictures, articles about whales, videos of whaling ships, etc. They really are enhancing and richening this reading!


message 16: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments David wrote: "You're Eye-to-Eye With a Whale in the Ocean—What Does It See?: A deep dive into how the most intelligent creatures in the ocean perceive their world.

"


Wow! That eye was, in a certain way, frightening. The whales are so beautiful. All that size.


message 17: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments Keeping a whale's head on each side of the ship reminds me of my uncle advising me many years ago when carrying heavy buckets of feed to the cows. He said I should carry not one, but two at a time, one in each hand, to keep my balance and make it easier to walk than carrying only one bucket in one hand. At the time I was too small and needed both hands to waddle along with one bucket; trying to carry two in each hand was just beyond my junior farmer abilities. However, he has been right ever since and there is no superstition about it.


message 18: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 5097 comments David wrote: "What I don't get in this chapter is, how is the chapter title, The Prairie, relevant to its content?.."

Hey, this is the great American novel, is it not? And America has prairies. (I'll try for more sense, less cynicism after I get Chap. 79 read/listened to and check out Cotkin's Dive Deeper: Journeys with Moby-Dick. (view spoiler))


message 19: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments Chapter 78, Tashtego really born again. and literally too. As Ishmael narrate the ocasion to us.

I was very happy about be able to perceive the words chosen to narrate the rescue that led me to think about the rescue as a second birth and soon Ishmael tell the story as Tashtego was born in that moment, as I was perceiving.


message 20: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments Chapter 79

How many people in the 19th spoke up denying the reliability of Phrenology as Melville does in this chapter? I thought that that science was considered true at that time by pretty everyone.


message 21: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments Chapter 80

Again, Melville exposes the physiological resemblances between mammals and humans but not saw this as a link between our species.


message 22: by Ashley (new)

Ashley Adams | 328 comments David wrote: "Chapter 71. The Jeroboam's Story... An attempt to exchange mail with the Jeroboam reveals the letter the Pequod had been carrying was for the man killed by Moby-Dick. Gabriel returns the mail by impaling it on a knife and throwing it back."

I LOVED Melville’s “Bartleby, the Schrivner.” I cannot get over the dead letter landing at Ahab’s feet (as per Gabriel’s request). What symbolism!

Now, what… does it mean?


message 23: by Ashley (new)

Ashley Adams | 328 comments In Ch 72 Ishmael describes the monkey-rope incident with Queequeg by saying “It was humorously perilous business for both of us.” Humorously perilous. Haha! While engaged in various DIY projects, I too have laughed while thinking, “Wow, I could so easily die right now.” I guess you have a choice either to laugh or to seize up in the face of fear.


message 24: by Ashley (new)

Ashley Adams | 328 comments David wrote: "Chapter 80. The Nut
Ishmael discusses the whale's brain and decides that such a small brain in such a large animal...Phenomenologically Ishmael decides the whale has no need for esteem either in itself or towards others but places more emphasis on its spine. He declares that I rejoice in my spine..."


So Melville is setting a decision before us; is the brain more important? Or the spine?

The philosophy? Or the action?


message 25: by Ashley (new)

Ashley Adams | 328 comments Susan wrote: "So, the Pequod has encountered four ships so far (if I’m counting correctly) and their names seem to be in sync with their behavior..."

Thank you for that excellent summary!


message 26: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 74: The Sperm Whale's Head

"Why do you try to 'enlarge' your mind? Subtilize it."

I liked that.


message 27: by Adelle (last edited Aug 25, 2018 07:23PM) (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 75: The Right Whale's Head

Perspectives/Thinking.

"But as you come nearer to this great head it begins to assume different aspects, according to your point of view." How things look different depending on where we stand --- physically. philosophically.

We can "see" so very much that isn't there: .one could take the head for "the trunk of some huge oak, with a bird's nest..."... one can have many creative thoughts ….such an idea will be almost sure to occur to you, unless, indeed, your fancy has been fixed by the technical term. 'crown'"... … in which case you will take great interest in thinking how this mighty monster is actually a diademed king of the sea.." How the bits we already know or have been told influence the line of our thoughts.


Loved this one: "Though the certainty of this criterion is far from demonstrable, it has the savor of analogical probability." Not proved... but it the reasoning is similar to something else that is true.


"Look around you afresh.


message 28: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 75: The Right Whale's Head

"Can you catch the expression of the Sperm Whale's there? It is the same he died with, only some of the longer wrinkles in the forehead seem now faded away."

Just my take: I thought it meant that now that he was dead the Sperm Whale had fewer worries, cares, concerns.


message 29: by Adelle (last edited Aug 25, 2018 08:05PM) (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 75: The Right Whale's Head

David, because I took the chapter to be on people forming their opinions on un-solid reasoning (See post above.) and especially as Ismael/Melville included that bit about the Right Whale's lip (lol: "Probably the mother during an important interval [while pregnant] was sailing down the Peruvian coast, when earthquakes caused the beach to gape {and thus her offspring was born with a gape]."

So Ismael/Melville closes the chapter "extrapolating"/imagining from HOW the whales happened to look, and notably how the Right Whale happened to look DUE TO HOW ITS HEAD LOOKED..."pressed by accident against the vessel's side… From this accidental physical happenstance of placement, he imagines the philosophical outlook of the two different whales.


DID very much enjoy that last line though. Amusing. "....the Sperm Whale, a Platonian, who might have taken up Spinoza in his latter years."


message 30: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 76: The Battering-Ram

Melville opens this chapter by urging us to "investigate...with the sole purpose of forming to yourself some unexaggerated, intelligent estimate..." So...my take is he wants us to think clearly and learn the actual facts. But then...

But then he has that sentence that unsettled me. "Here is a vital point; you must either satisfactorily settle this matter with yourself or for ever remain an infidel as to one of the most appalling, but not the less true events, perhaps anywhere to be found in all recorded history."

Well... that's quite the sentence, yes? 1) If I must settle it for myself... then it would seem not to rely totally on facts, right? but also on my own beliefs, right? Because if it were based solely on facts I wouldn't have to settle it... it would be settled fact already.

2) "or remain forever an infidel"... an infidel implies religion... Religions are based more on belief than on agreed upon facts...

3) WHAT appalling event??? Ishmael/Melville must, I think, be referring to some event to take place later in the book for which we will need to firmly believe in the battering ram power of the Sperm Whale.

At least that is my current view.


message 31: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 76: The Battering-Ram

Intriguing, enigmatic closing:

"For unless you own the whale, you are but a provincial and sentimentalist in Truth." ???? Truth with a capital T. Is he saying we need the big picture Truth??? That knowing only our own provincial truth isn't enough??? That we're too prone to "choose" our truths based too much on feeling???

"But clear Truth is a thing for salamander giants only to encounter" ??? But salamanders are small. ??? We're all small??? Even the giants???


"What befel the weakling youth lifting the dread goddess's veil at Sais?"


https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-v...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of...

???


message 32: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments Sperm Whale's expression in death is a placid one one born of a speculative indifference that Ishmael takes as one belonging to a Platonian, who might have taken up Spinoza in his latter years.

Righ whale's expression in death is one of practical resolution that Ishmael takes as one belonging to a Stoic.

I see the relationship between practical resolution and Stoicism because it instructs one to be in harmony with nature, or at least not to be disturbed, by nature and natural processes, including death. But I am less sure of the relationship between Plato to Spinoza and indifference. What is the difference between being indifferent towards death and being resolved to it? Does being indifferent towards death require a level of carelessness, or willful ignorance? Is it better to be resolved or indifferent about death?


message 33: by Sue (last edited Aug 26, 2018 08:35AM) (new)

Sue Pit (cybee) | 329 comments As my Moby Dick readings occur on the weekends, I am always a bit late in the discussion but I enjoyed catching up/ reading the above comments.

Chapter 71: Was there a real epidemic as in one place it states that "though himself and boat's crew remained untainted..." ; or was it just the words of Gabriel that cast a perceived "plague" in effect? Gabriel with the "redundant yellow hair"...lol.

Chapter 72: I know ginger is actually very good for nausea....so I wondered at first if that is the purpose behind Aunt Charity bringing the same....along other more abstentions type reasons.

Can't imagine the need for the harpooner to have to stand upon the whale whilst it is being prepared with all the sharks swirling about flashing their teeth. Certainly an unnecessary "ritual" of sorts. Perhaps a time to call into question routines that seem to bear no logical foundation at least in current times.

Chapter 73: This was a question I had last week: how does the ship balance whilst porting a large whale/ head or whole on one side? A counter balance makes sense to me but why a Right Whale in specific, I know not. That might be a bit of superstition or tradition based upon...who knows! (see above re need to call into question rituals based upon...superstition/ tradition based not upon logic but emotion?)

Chapter 76, 77 and 80: The structure externally and externally of the Sperm Whale's massive head evidence great protection for the brain. There are no vulnerable parts on the front of the whale, but such are set well back (eyes/ears) or under (mouth) as well as the oil cushion for the brain and other parts. The vast amount of spermaceti seems the perfect protection, a superior helmet design, for the brain as well as other more vital organs if the whale were to employ his head, in effect, as a battering ram.

Chapter 81: I thought that perhaps Derrick's shaking of the lamp feeder at the Pequod's boats was misread by Stubb, etc.. I wondered if in fact Derrick was just reminding the Pequod squad that his boat was in dire need for oil and that the Pequod should stand down. Stubb took it as merely being ungrateful derision against the Pequod. But regardless, the Pequod squad was not about to sand down. Yet, then Derrick does "pitch" his lampfeeder at the advancing Pequod boats, perhaps to thwart as nothing else seemed to be working to hinder the competition.

The stone harpoon finding is interesting, suggesting a very long life of the elderly and damaged whale, for whom I felt pity. Then the whale (who clearly had a long and sometimes difficult life) ends up sinking, losing his life with no benefit to anyone. Melville's reference to the besieged whale's fear gave me empathy for the whale.


message 34: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments David wrote: "Sperm Whale's expression in death is a placid one one born of a speculative indifference that Ishmael takes as one belonging to a Platonian, who might have taken up Spinoza in his latter years.

Ri..."


Really enjoyed reading this perspective.


message 35: by Adelle (last edited Aug 26, 2018 09:21AM) (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Sue wrote: "As my Moby Dick readings occur on the weekends, I am always a bit late in the discussion but I enjoyed catching up/ reading the above "

The structure externally and externally of the Sperm Whale's massive head evidence great protection for the brain. There are no vulnerable parts on the front of the whale, but such are set well back (eyes/ears) or under (mouth) as well as the oil cushion for the brain and other parts. The vast amount of spermaceti seems the perfect protection, a superior helmet design, for the brain as well as other more vital organs..."

Sue, so glad you caught up... and surpassing some of us!😉

Interesting question as to whether there was an actual plague aboard ship.

Regarding the Sperm Whale.... All that protection... the massive amounts of the oil... valuable to protect the Sperm Whale's vital organs...so valuable to man as to transform the Sperm Whale into a hunted creature... death.


message 36: by Bryan--The Bee’s Knees (last edited Aug 26, 2018 08:43PM) (new)

Bryan--The Bee’s Knees (theindefatigablebertmcguinn) | 304 comments I've just caught up as well, and enjoyed all the comments.

I laughed out loud when I got to this passage, it just seemed so droll:

"A nose to the whale would have been impertinent. As on your physiognomical voyage you sail round his vast head in your jolly-boat, you noble conceptions of him are never insulted by the reflection that he has a nose to be pulled. A pestilent conceit, which so often will insist upon obtruding even when beholding the mightiest royal beadle on his throne."

For whatever reason, it struck me as funny


message 37: by Ignacio (last edited Aug 29, 2018 01:54PM) (new)

Ignacio | 139 comments Rafael wrote: "I was very happy about be able to perceive the words chosen to narrate the rescue that led me to think about the rescue as a second birth and soon Ishmael tell the story as Tashtego was born in that moment, as I was perceiving.

I agree, I loved this passage. It is pure poetry. Melville packs such a punch with his use of words: notice how he plays on "deliverance" and "delivery," how Tashtego's escape "in the teeth" is both literal and figurative, and how he manages to use the metaphor of "midwifery" (delivering, rescuing) as a gendered complement to the the traditionally "masculine" abilities of strength and force.

And thus, through the courage and great skill in obstetrics of Queequeg, the deliverance, or rather, delivery of Tashtego, was successfully accomplished, in the teeth, too, of the most untoward and apparently hopeless impediments; which is a lesson by no means to be forgotten. Midwifery should be taught in the same course with fencing and boxing, riding and rowing . (ch. 78)


message 38: by Ignacio (new)

Ignacio | 139 comments Rafael wrote: "Again, Melville exposes the physiological resemblances between mammals and humans but not saw this as a link between our species."

Yes, in this whole chapter he seems to be practicing a kind of empathy or at least an imaginative effort to draw connections between whales and humans. You're right these comparisons remain metaphorical, as he does not mention the evolutionary implications of these similarities (Darwin's Origin of Species would not be published until 1859, a few years after Moby Dick).

If you unload his skull of its spermy heaps and then take a rear view of its rear end, which is the high end, you will be struck by its resemblance to the human skull, beheld in the same situation, and from the same point of view. Indeed, place this reversed skull (scaled down to the human magnitude) among a plate of men’s skulls, and you would involuntarily confound it with them ... (ch. 80)


message 39: by Rafael (new)

Rafael da Silva (morfindel) | 340 comments Ignacio wrote: "Rafael wrote: "Again, Melville exposes the physiological resemblances between mammals and humans but not saw this as a link between our species."

Yes, in this whole chapter he seems to be practici..."


He would be an innovator if he had proposed this resemblances as more than coincidences, isn't? But even Darwin was afraid to publish his conclusions. Melville, coming from a more religious background, probably never thought in these kind of things, if he did he would never publish it, I think.


message 40: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 77 -- The Great Heidelburgh Tun

I absolutely loved this line... it's about life itself:

"[A life] … from unavoidable circumstances, considerable of it is spilled, leaks, and dribbles away, ... (we begin with such promise and potential), or it is otherwise irrevocably lost in the ticklish business of securing what you can."


message 41: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Chapter 81 -- The Pequod Meets the Virgin

When I first read thru this chapter, I found the paragraph in which the boats were closing in on the old whale, about to finish him off, so very sad.

But I read it a couple more times, and something else seemed to speak more strongly to me. I was struck by how OLD the whale was... and how very much that shouldn't be in his body...was preserved in his flesh---but as though the flesh had tried to keep it isolated.

"It so chanced that almost upon first cutting into him... the entire length of a corroded harpoon was found imbedded in his flesh... the lance-head of stone being found in him..."

This whale was huge. And not healthy. And because it began sinking, it came near to capsizing The Pequod.

And I suddenly thought of all those arrows and harpoons and such in the whale's body as negative psychological or emotional baggage --- I have my share; I would suppose that most of us do; I read that Melville certainly had his share... I read he came close to a complete breakdown after he had finished writing Moby Dick.


When the whale was too heavy and beginning to sink, the crew knew it had to cut that whale away or the ship itself would be lost. And it struck me that that's how it is with people, too. Sometimes emotional baggage simply has to be jettisoned. I thought, too, back to the chapter on the Right Whale... that if there had been another whale on the other side of the Pequod to serve as a counterweight it might have been different. And a person... if they have a large enough reserve of having been loved and supported in life---the Right Whale--- that that person can right oneself better against the weights they may experience in life. (Melville's father died when he was young... financial support, too, was lost.)


message 42: by Ashley (new)

Ashley Adams | 328 comments Adelle wrote: "Chapter 81 -- The Pequod Meets the Virgin

When the whale was too heavy and beginning to sink, the crew knew it had to cut that whale away or the ship itself would be lost. And it struck me that that's how it is with people, too. Sometimes emotional baggage simply has to be jettisoned. "


Yes, I love that interpretation. The whale is carrying the weight of its experiences (literally in scar tissue). Reminds me of how little baggage Ishmael brought aboard.


message 43: by Sue (last edited Sep 15, 2018 07:20PM) (new)

Sue Pit (cybee) | 329 comments Regarding chapter 74 and the above discussion regarding the whale's eyes' locations creating a blind spot of sorts in the front, as stated above there is echolocation of which we now understand to fill in some visual blanks. Furthermore, evolutionarily, it would seem eyes would be a bit less essential at least as compared to human's needs, as the sea/ocean can be so dark at least in greater depths and thus vision is somewhat impaired naturally that way as well (even if eyes were placed all about one's head!)...so that echolocation seems a great gift for purposes of underwater times especially when deep. I do recall watching some male humpback whales chasing a female (very fast)..and I could see their eyes above water (so determined looking ) but somehow they were following her well...echolocation apparently working even if all were partially but mostly in the water..hmm..(eyes would seem of limited use here as female seemed primarily directly in front of these males, albeit in full light).


message 44: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 5097 comments I've finally gotten through these chapters and finished reading the comments here. Thank you all for them. I agree with Bryan about the (wicked) humor that keeps cropping up -- e.g., the significance of noses in anatomies. My thanks to Adelle for the links about the "veil of the goddess at Sais." I had wondered about that one, but hadn't chased it yet (along with several other allusions, like Spinoza versus Plato). I am curious what has been learned in the years since about the roles of sight (eyes) and sound (ears) in the lives of whales -- but not curious enough to go looking per se. (I see, Dave, you have given a place to start with your link embedded in the description for Chapter 74.) Would rather spend the time right now reading more of Moby Dick.


message 45: by David (new)

David | 2859 comments Lily wrote: "Would rather spend the time right now reading more of Moby Dick."

I will try and save you some time then. This was one of the pics in the eye article I thought everyone should see.
Sperm Whale Composite Two, April 2011. The working file is roughly 60 gigabytes in size and required more than 240 gigabytes of memory in Photoshop. (© Bryant Austin/studio: cosmos)



message 46: by Adelle (new)

Adelle | 3130 comments Wowza!

Thanks.


message 47: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 5097 comments Thanks, David. I hope you also saw the art work by Jacco Olivier here:

http://www.mobydickbigread.com/chapte...

(I "like" the picture you provided "better," but still a haunting representation.)

I'd still like more recent understandings of the way the whale "uses" its parallel perceptions of the world. (Part of my graduate work touched on the work that was going on at about that time about the probable evolution of the human eye, so my interest is biased by that bit of personal history.)


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