Fool's Assassin > Part 1: Ch 1-5

[Hanne]

thread one! as always, whoever is ahead of the pack, feel free to make the next one.

[Rob]

FYI, there is a prologue as well, but I'll assume we're including that here.

Prologue/Chapter 1
It's so nice to be back!

I'm done with the prologue and and Chapter 1 and nothing has happened. Yet somehow I'm loving it. How does Robin Hobb do that?

I think anyone else trying the sort of pacing she does would fail at it horribly.

It's just nice to be back with Fitz, Molly and Patience!

I'm sure the 3 "minstrels" are going to be the catalyst for what's to come. I wonder if the young "messenger" is the one they are looking for, and why. I suspect if I'm right she doesn't want to be found by them.

It was really hard to get to work this morning. I just want to sit out in my car or in the break room with my headphones on. lol.

[Hanne]

Rob wrote: "FYI, there is a prologue as well, but I'll assume we're including that here.

Ah yes. (I don't have a copy yet, so no clue here).
And now i will venture out of this thread and not come back in until i have a copy in my hand. Have fun!

[Rob]

This weekend was kind of a blur. I don't remember exactly what happened in 2-5 and what happened after, so I'll err on the side of caution and wait for other people to comment to chime in again.

Good start overall though.

[Rob]

I read Tawny man in late 2012, so I didn't have those issues. It felt like picking up right where I left off.

Also lol for autocorrect turning Burrich to burrito.

[David Sven]

Rob wrote: "I'm done with the prologue and and Chapter 1 and nothing has happened. Yet somehow I'm loving it. How does Robin Hobb do that?"

I actually enjoyed seeing Fitz happy. Except I'm bracing myself for when Hobb drops the axe.

[Rob]

Haha. No kidding.

[David Sven]

Ch 2. So the Woman had a message from the fool which he never got. I wonder if the assassins were from around where the fool came from. Maybe that's why the wit doesn't pick them up

[Rob]

David Sven wrote: "I wonder if the assassins were from around where the fool came from. Maybe that's why the wit doesn't pick them up"

Was Fitz not able to sense the Fool with the Wit? And if so was it because of where he came from, and not because the Fool is the White Prophet?

[David Sven]

Rob wrote: "Was Fitz not able to sense the Fool with the Wit? And if so was it because of where he came from, and not because the Fool is the White Prophet? "

I think NightEyes used to say he had no smell? I'm only guessing about it being where he came from. We know he's not exactly from around here

[Rob]

Hmm. I vaguely remember the no smell comment. I guess it's been longer than I remember on some of these details.

[David Sven]

So we quickly move from 10 to 17 years after Tawny Man. Patience dies. Molly losing it is hard to take.

[Rob]

Yeah well things can't be happy with Fitz for long, or we wouldn't have a new trilogy!

[David Sven]

Ch5 - Wha...!? Molly wasn't crazy after all? What's going on - is this a skill baby? Maybe Fitz has magic sperm?

[Rob]

His sperm is witted and skilled..

[Hanne]

done with the first five chapters (i didn't dare venture into the threads before)

first of all, I'm glad that we got to see a bit of Patience before she dies. i especially liked the "feathers to bid all our troubles take flight and horsetail hairs which is what we will show to our problems as we flee them".

to be honest, i was/still am partially afraid that the messenger was in fact the fool. a young pale girl, we've seen the fool in many disguises, but it might just be the title of the book priming me into that direction, and as i told myself multiple times, the fool would probably not have waited in his office for so long and just marched into his private rooms.

the end of ch2 was a very deafening piece of foreshadowing if only we knew what about.
i love what she does there though, it's a big big warning for all us, and yet in chapter 3 we settle back into some small stories. (btw, chade? stupid much?)

i was also surprised about the pregnancy. but a child so tiny and pale? could she be a new white prophet? what do we know about them except that they live much longer? would they have a longer pregnancy too?

i know here is a trend here - i might be seeing way too many white prophets :))

[Hanne]

David Sven wrote: "Rob wrote: "Was Fitz not able to sense the Fool with the Wit? And if so was it because of where he came from, and not because the Fool is the White Prophet? "

I think NightEyes used to say he had ..."

i don't remember all of this, but it's interesting indeed. nighteyes couldn't smell him, i think fitz couldn't sense him both with wit (his being) and skill (his mind) like he can sense other people. so perhaps they all come from that country. they certainly sounded odd enough.

[David Sven]

Hanne wrote: "to be honest, i was/still am partially afraid that the messenger was in fact the fool. a young pale girl, we've seen the fool in many disguises, but it might just be the title of the book"

Oh, that never occurred to me. Now I can't wait to find out.

[Hanne]

in the end i don't think it was him, he would not have nicely waited for so many hours, but it was intriguing, especially given "the vision" of the fool screaming he got afterwards when he touched the blooded figure

[Wastrel]

Certainly seems clear that the messenger was a White. Remember, not all Whites are Prophets, I don't think (eg the Pale Woman only thought she was? Or were there two genuine but conflicting white prophets? I think Beloved implies the former, although he might be biased...)

Molly going bad made my eyes distinctly moisten. I'm normally that frightened of dementia, of the sort of forgetting-everything kind, but the unbreakable-psychotic-delusion-in-someone-otherwise-completely-sane is really creepy.

Although possibly less creepy than it not being a delusion...

[Bryan]

Wow, I think this is the first time I've been able to actually read a book at the same time as this group. Exciting!

An excellent start, although I disagree with a few of you who think nothing happened in the first few chapters. It seems to me that a lot of stuff has happened. The murdered messenger, the healing of Chade, the death of King Eyod, and the weirdness around Molly's pregnancy (really didn't expect that to go the way it did). I think with contemporary fantasy we've perhaps become accustomed to a high degree of action, but as much as I enjoy a good action scene, I really appreciate that Hobb
can move a story along without needing to insert a battle into every chapter.

By the way Hanne, interesting theory about the child being a White. I hadn't considered that, but I buy it.

[Hanne]

Bryan wrote: "Wow, I think this is the first time I've been able to actually read a book at the same time as this group. Exciting! "

the more, the merrier :)

i agree that a lot of things have happened already. perhaps there haven't been grand action scenes, but i do enjoy these sort of introductions a lot.

regarding the theory, i get a bit suspicious whenever Robin Hobb uses a particular adjective one too many times. normally i'm not such a conspiracy-seeker but it has served me before in her books :)

[Linnea]

I'm glad to be back with Fitz, although I just reread The Tawny Man. I agree with you that alot of things has happened in these first chapters, but I also understand people who says not much has happened. There are many pages where we just get to read Fitz thoughts of things. I think that's why I love him, and Robin Hobb's writing, so much.

I was also thinking that the infant is a white prophet, but, as some of you pointed out, Fitz couldn't feel Fool with his Wit and the baby has a strong life spark to his Wit. Hmm...

[David Sven]

Linnea wrote: "I was also thinking that the infant is a white prophet, but, as some of you pointed out, Fitz couldn't feel Fool with his Wit and the baby has a strong life spark to his Wit. Hmm... "

Ahh, good pickup. And the Fool was not so sensitive to the skill. But I'm still going with this being a white prophet and is probably the result of the Fitz connection with the Fool - Maybe those times Fitz and the Fool connected through that little bit of silver patch on the Fool transferred something.

[Hanne]

linnea, that's a good point and it made me think. the fool came from another folk as well. perhaps this not sensing with the wit has more to do with race (for lack of better word) than with being a white prophet?

that might explain the visitors from chapter 1-2 better as well. the not wit-sensing is race-related not a point of destiny.

[Scarletine]

David Sven wrote: "Linnea wrote: "I was also thinking that the infant is a white prophet, but, as some of you pointed out, Fitz couldn't feel Fool with his Wit and the baby has a strong life spark to his Wit. Hmm... ..."

This is what bugged me about molly's freaky pregnancy. You would think Fitz would have put his hand on Molly's belly AT LEAST once in 2 years, and quested with his wit to see of there was a second life force. But no, the idiot believes she's going mad! Facepalm!

[Wastrel]

Little wrote: "David Sven wrote: "Linnea wrote: "I was also thinking that the infant is a white prophet, but, as some of you pointed out, Fitz couldn't feel Fool with his Wit and the baby has a strong life spark ..."

He does put his hand on her belly (repeatedly, iirc) but feels nothing. I don't know if he tries the Wit, but it's not unbelievable that that might be useless - a tiny creature sharing the blood of the animal that bears it, after all. I don't think it's been explained how the wit deals with pregnancy.

Besides, you don't have to be an idiot to think a woman's going mad when she claims to have been pregnant for two years with no external signs of pregnancy.

[Tanya]

I would like to share with you my observations about one interesting line, that goes on throughout all the Fitz books - bramble. If you chase through the first trilogies, evey now and then you will find Fitz around bramble bushes either hiding in them or getting scratches. Everytime it happens when Fitz is in danger or is feeling miserable and lonely or running for his life. In Tawny man trilogies we also have this bramble issue - first of all we find Fitz living in the place, which he himself called Bramble creek - a place where he is hiding from his past and at the same time feels lonely and still miserable - a coincidence? then in his dreams on the ship on the way to Aslevjal, when Fitz had skill dreams there were huge brumble thorns, and in that dream he did feel miserable untill Nettle made them disappear. I have just mentioned a couple of places and there are a lot more.
This new book also has at least two passages, which have to do with bramble and the first one right in the very beginning: Chapter 1: Fitz doesn't want to put on Jamallian trousers and he says to Molly: "the fabric on those trousers is so thin, the slightest bramble would tear them and..." and here goes Molly, with an exasperated sigh: "Yes, I've heard it from you a hundred times. Let's ignore there are a few brambles inside Withy Woods, shall we?"
So, the bramble theme is back. Fitz had mentioned something about brambles to Molly a hundred times already, which means, that he was not that happy and relaxed. Subconsiously he was so much afraid that loneliness and something bad might happen any moment that he didn't even feel ok to put on trousers with thin fabric. Is he expecting to run and hide in the brumble bushes any moment?
and then one more time the bramble bush is mentioned in Chapter 10, but I won't write about it here, those who are interested will find it there.
I like it about Hobb's writing, one needs to pay attention to small things and follow them, to be able to see the whole idea and dive inside it.
Well, English is not my native language, and I can't express myself as good as I'd wish to, the hope is that you can get my point.

[Bryan]

Interesting point, Tanya. Been awhile since I'd read Fool's Fate, and I didn't remember that. Brambles as a metaphor for Fitz' struggles with depression? Good catch.

[Tanya]

Bryan wrote: "Interesting point, Tanya. Been awhile since I'd read Fool's Fate, and I didn't remember that. Brambles as a metaphor for Fitz' struggles with depression? Good catch."

Yes, Bryan! thank you for understanding :) but not only it is a metaphor for his struggles with depression, but also he himself reminds me of bramble thorns by not letting anyone inside his life.

but speaking about brambles reminded me of one more thing, when Fitz was a young boy he and his friends used to drink CHEAP blackberry brandy, he drank it with Molly as well. Later in Assassin's Quest, when Fitz was recovering after returning back into his body Chade nad Burrich offered to him blackberry brandy saying that it was his favourite. And Fitz answered something like - "I don't like it, I never liked it actually.But it was CHEAP." Normally cheap would mean available, easy thing to get. Which makes me think of the end of the Fool's Fate, when Fitz and Molly in the very end were collecting blackberries and then fled and made love. When Fitz kissed her, he said - her lips tasted like blackberry... CHEAP and AVAILABLE blackberry brandy, something that he didnt like at all, but had because it was easy to get... maybe that's why in the end he says that he is content. Probably, He would be happy, if there was the taste of Apricots in his mouth...expensive Fool's Apricot Brandy, that is...?

[Scarletine]

Tanya wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Interesting point, Tanya. Been awhile since I'd read Fool's Fate, and I didn't remember that. Brambles as a metaphor for Fitz' struggles with depression? Good catch."
..."

' Probably, He would be happy, if there was the taste of Apricots in his mouth...expensive Fool's Apricot Brandy, that is...?' :-) I LOVE that line!
I also think 'the brambles' are a metaphor for his depression. Depression, by it's nature is a place in the mind where we are trapped within ourselves. Every movement is painful and we can see no way forward. I guess It makes sense that 'in the bramble' Fitz has stopped living his authentic life.(as a vital, passionate, flawed hero!) He dare not venture out of the supposed comfort of Molly and Withywoods because of the memories and pain that would be unleashed. I never thought that their relationship had much going for it to be honest. They were already having problems when Molly got with child. I don't see how they could, after 16 years apart, suddenly be a contented happy family. Molly would have changed as a person- after falling in love and 9 pregnancies(7+2 miscarriages , i think)and Fitz had been through the most incredible relationship with Beloved. I don't see how Molly could have EVER taken the place of that. Molly didn't want to hear it when Fitz had tried to explain what he did for the farseers. Why she would be ok with that after 16 years apart? Fitz wanted a fantasy of a perfect relationship that never actually existed.It was a sticking plaster over the wound that the Fool had left on his parting. While with Molly, internally he was static-stuck in the bramble. Apricot brandy is the only way forward! ;-)

[Tanya]

LittleRed wrote: "Tanya wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Interesting point, Tanya. Been awhile since I'd read Fool's Fate, and I didn't remember that. Brambles as a metaphor for Fitz' struggles with depression? ..."
Ya, Apricot brandy forever!
I think, that if Fool didn't return to Fitz his memories with the aid of that Crown, Fitz would have followed him wherever, but at the same time his heart would've never opened to Fool, because Fitz was half Forged and Fool knew that. So, the only way to let Fitz feel just any type of feelings, was to return to him his selfness. And the Fool did that.(maybe he hoped, that Fitz would love him, when he was able to feel and live again?) And what he got? Fitz suddenly remembered his passion and love for Molly. Having transferred all that rush of feelings to Fitz, which nearly killed Fool, he also got the idea how much Fitz wanted to be with Molly, so no matter how painful it was for him, he "let him go with longing, and the hope that he'll be fine". Fitz is an animal...Buck indeed

[Scarletine]

Tanya wrote: "LittleRed wrote: "Tanya wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Interesting point, Tanya. Been awhile since I'd read Fool's Fate, and I didn't remember that. Brambles as a metaphor for Fitz' struggles..."

ha ha! Buck Indeed! I did think that the Fool was right to let him go and explore his feelings for Molly. They had fogged his vision for so long. I think it kind of back fired for Fool. He gave Fitz his freedom and peace, but fitz just found a hole and stopped there! (literally!) Fitz should have at least tried to find fool once in 20 years. It just baffles me that he never reached out, and never acted on findng him even when the memory stone carving of Fool screamed in agony. HELLO! it was a sign Fitz! Your Beloved was being tortured to the last threads of his dignity. Being with Molly made him so dense!

[Wastrel]

Speaking as someone who lives in a place where there are blackberries everywhere... I think you're reaching.

Of course you only spend time in brambles when you're in danger - you'd never otherwise want to go near the damn things. And of course you worry about brambles when you get fancy new clothes - it's the equivalent of worrying about mud - Fitz isn't metaphorically concerned with his depression or whatever, he has just (as the rest of the scene also makes clear) never adjusted to the fact that he is now in a place where he doesn't have to worry about practical issues like thorns and mud and whatnot anymore. And sure, brambles are likely to occur in nightmares of being trapped or confused - plus that nightmare clearly reflects Western fairy tales of princesses in towers (sleeping beauty's castle hidden within the brambles, for instance).
The blackberry brandy was cheap not because it tasted of blackberries but because it wasn't very good. Yes, blackberries are something ordinary and domestic, but that doesn't inherently make them inferior to imported fruit. Molly tasted of blackberries because she'd been eating blackberries (she couldn't very well have been out picking apricots in the apricot-bushes, could she?).

I think if you take any random item you'll be able to construct meaning around it if you really want - that's how humans (and conspiracy theories) work. I'm sure you could draw up a list of every time that grass occurs, for instance...

(and I think LittleRed, no offence, may be getting carried away from the richness of what's actually in the book by her FF-shipping....)

[Tanya]

Wastrel wrote: "Speaking as someone who lives in a place where there are blackberries everywhere... I think you're reaching.

Of course you only spend time in brambles when you're in danger - you'd never otherwise..."

Maybe you should spend some time and study on the Expressive Means and Stylistic Devices of the language to better understand what we were talking about. Any writer would use those in their books to make them alive, deep and expressive.

[Wastrel]

...how very patronising.

I am aware of the concept of symbolism. I'm also aware that sometimes a cigar is only a cigar.