Editors and Writers discussion
Former 'Paper' Editor new to EBook Editing... Help with Software/Tech Methods?
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OddModicum Rachel
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Aug 06, 2014 01:52PM
Hi there, everyone! Hoping someone can point me in the right direction, as 'googling' and 'binging' my way to a solution has been less than successful. I did quite a bit of academic and fiction editing in the (ancient!) past. I was primarily a line-editor, but did some content editing as well, and always found ways to assist with continuity, awkward wording, and ponderous language. I did coverage/correction/continuity work with movie scripts for a production company shortly after college. Fast forward 18 years, and here I am, trying to get back into editing. My biggest question is about the 'tech' of the day. Clearly, a paper manuscript, red pen, and a highlighter aren't going to work for me at this stage. I've played around a bit with the Calibre epub editor, but it leaves something to be desired, or I'm just doing it wrong. Its very important to me that I can not only correct a manuscript (epub), but also 'mark' and 'note' one. I've found it helpful in the past for a writer to see the proofed 'before' and corrected 'after' versions of an editing project. Can anyone offer me any guidance on the actual process you use for editing an ebook... software, etc? I'm astounded that wanting to find a software program that highlights, allows 'sticky notes', actual text changes, and keeps both corrected and uncorrected version (with my notes/highlights intact) of the epub is proving such a difficult task. I'm VERY appreciative of any help anyone can offer. I've been hunting online with absolutely no success. Somehow I think I'd get laughed out of a job tout de suite were I to give a writer a printed manuscript with marked up pages at this stage of the game. ;)
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I'm not a pro-editor (yet) but I use word's track changes and review comments. I believe you can also mark up notes in pdf but I haven't worked out how yet. Saying that, I don't edit FOR people, but merely point out everything I see that should be changed and leave them to make the final decision. Not sure if that helps or not, but thought I would mention it.
Yeah, that's kind of my thinking as well. I likely will provide a corrected copy of actual errors in spelling/syntax etc.. but so much of what I do is in suggestions for wording, pointing out repeated phrases, pronouns that leave you wondering who the writer is referring to.. that sort of thing. That's why its essential to me to be able to highlight, and then add a note re: the highlighted chunk. 'Word track changes and review comments'... that's actually in microsoft word? You're literally the first person to mention that to me! lol I'll check it out, for sure. I certainly don't count as a pro-editor at this point, either, and I very much appreciate your help! Oh, forgot to mention... pdf thing would never work for me. PDFs and I flat out don't get along. ;)
I cross out words and re-order sentences on the main document (the ruled out words and my entered words are in a different colour), for plot questions or further comment I write a review/comment note. I don't highlight as such.I know if I copy the content and re-paste it on a new document it ignores all my ruling out, if you then deleted the comments you would in effect have an edited copy too. (Although you'd need to test that theory out).
I take great pleasure in ruling out unnecessary adverbs and the words 'had' and 'that' :) It's an obsession of mine.
The way I see it, is that if you edit in word, you can then convert it to the chosen e-book format (but I know very little, well, nothing, about that side of things).
You know, I've not done any actual paid editing jobs recently, so I may just be understanding the process incorrectly. I have been doing arc reviews, and for that, the writer provides an epub. I assumed it would be the same for an editing assignment, and that I'd have to be able to edit the epub itself. I imagine it would be more valuable to have a word copy. I'll play around a bit and see if I end up with a jumble converting from epub to word... thank you guys so much for the help! I'm already thinking in a new direction. edit: Ok, its official... I just looked up the capabilities, and it looks like word w 'track and review comments' may just be ideal for my purposes. Thank you so much!
No problem. Glad to be of help. I'm not paid either (yet), been offering my services as a beta reader, but have done a fair bit of editing where the writer's have asked me look at grammar too (and having a brilliant time in the process).
OM Rachel,Don't toss your red pencil and Post-Its! Many authors do want their work edited with Track Changes (which is the most-used program), but many still want paper copy marked instead. Let us know if you need any help with TC. If you haven't already discovered this, it can be customized to a fair degree depending on your preferences or the author's. And it will display the edited text as the "Final Showing Markup," "Final," "Original Showing Markup," or just the "Original." It's still a good idea to make a back-up copy of the original text — hard or electronic — just in case something happens. But you probably already know that.
Ruth
Ruth Feiertag
PenKnife Writing and Editorial Services
http://www.penknife-editing.net
lol Ruth, I had one horrifying (never to be repeated) experience when I was in UCLA English department that taught me full well never to edit the original. Oy. Trainwreckery. ;) I truly can't thank you all enough for your help! I'm just starting to poke around a bit with word now, and there's some helpful information online. Now that I have a specific software to research, the online hunt has gotten much more productive. It is lovely to know I can ask if I get into a pickle, though.
Michelle (and anyone else who's done beta reading)... I've run into the situation recently when I'm reading for ARC review purposes, so its even less of a 'read' than a beta, and its become very obvious very quickly that the manuscript is a total mess. One notable recent experience... There were two misspelled words on the first page of the book in the section where the author thanks people for correcting his mistakes. (sigh!) This book is currently offered for sale, and I'm obviously going to have to make it clear to the author that it is in dire need of at least one solid edit. In your experience, is that the kind of advice that a writer welcomes from a reader/reviewer, or am I likely to have him calling for my head on platter? It is a self-published ebook, so changes after release are definitely possible.
I make a point of telling anyone I read for that I will be brutally honest, and all the writers so far have appreciated that. Most want to have their book word and punctuation and plot perfect, but there's always the chance of coming across that one writer who just wants to hear how great their book is.I don't know what ARC is, but assuming the writer/author has asked you to read, I would mention finding a few typos etc and recommend a final proof-reading/editing.
As a writer, I'd rather know my book was perfect before releasing it to the general public. First impressions and all that...
I agree with you 100% about the 'First Impressions' thing, and of the few reviews done so far on this one, all have mentioned way too much extraneous detail and typos, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. However, am a bit worried about the 'just wants to hear how great their book is' factor, as it has notably not been edited, even after reviews mentioned it. lol They've all been casual mentions of issues, however. As it is only a matter of time till he's slammed mercilessly by a reviewer, I've gotta bite the bullet. I just have a sneaking suspicion I'm walking into hail of gunfire on this one. lol My 'feelings' aren't always right, but right often enough that I take note. BTW, ARC review means 'Advanced Reader Copy' provided gratis to a reviewer in exchange for an honest review posted at Goodreads, Amazon, book blogs, etc. From what I understand (I'm new to all this with GR and publishing as a whole), an ARC reviewer is basically expected to write a review period, and is typically sought by author just after public release of book to establish a rating and generate some buzz. As a Beta Reader, there's some expectation that you'll be responding directly to author, and pointing out issues as you see them in an attempt to resolve issues prior to book release. Similar animals, but slightly different. Thanks again for all of your help, Michelle.
I've only had one bad experience as a beta, years ago. It did knock my confidence and I vowed never to beta again. it was only through getting an intern placement copyediting that my confidence returned). I am conscious that it could happen again, which is why I always check the author's ok with brutally honest feedback.
Maybe before you do Arc reading you could ask them in the event of finding typos if they'd like to be told or not. I xpect most would say yes.
Oh yes.. great advice. I definitely plan to make it clear that I am incapable of a straight 'read' without making note of issues as I see them. One or two typos are inevitable, esp with a self-published title, but I find it irksome when an author has made NO attempt to seek an edit/proofread of any sort before offering the book for public sale. If the author doesn't want to have me bring them to his/her attention, or have them revealed in a review, I'm probably not the best choice. As far as I'm concerned, never again will I be put in this awkward position. lol Live and learn, I suppose. Congrats on your copyediting gig, btw!
Mod
Coming in a little late on this discussion, but yes, as an editor you would be working with the document well before it's converted to ePub or mobi formats, and track changes is the way to go.
I strongly recommend training as well - this will give you the background knowledge of the publishing world. Editing itself is all very well, but you need an understanding of the complete role and process as well.
Proofreaders often work with PDF so they can see all aspects of the final layout - there are special "stamps" you can use with the file for the proof reading symbols.
And yes, I would expect an ARC to be pretty close to polished, although sometimes they are produced before the final proofread, which is why they usually carry a warning about possibly containing errors and not quoting from them.
Lin
Www.coinlea.co.uk
Thanks so much, Lin! I'm currently trying to find effective and affordable training programs online, but unfortunately my health prevents me from taking advantage of local resources, which tend to be much less expensive. I'm hunting like mad, though. If anyone knows of any online resources for training, I'd be so grateful. I've also found some amazing book resources recently... while they certainly don't take the place of training, they're a fantastic alternative to no instruction at all. The helpful people so far in this thread have given me some great resources. Lastly, I wasn't very clear explaining my specific concern about the ARC review. An ARC copy prior to release with a few errors is definitely not uncommon, as its not had that final polish and is a pre-release copy. The circumstance I'm currently dealing with are a bit different, however. It involves an already released book, and the epub is the final product that consumers are paying to receive. This makes it much more problematic, unfortunately. lol Thanks so very much for your help!
Mod
That's perfect info. I can come up with a similar program here much more simply if I have one to compare it to. Thanks! I just applied for a scholarship for this very short intense course of study in web design. Hopefully the training program will be able to point me in a the direction of a similar program to Publishing Training Center. I really appreciate the info.
Hi OM Rachel, FYI, PDF and epub can be converted to Word documents. PDF is much easier without a converter software. There is a free converter software for changing epub into Word. I do it all the time and it is effortless.
Happy Editing ~Tina E.
Tina E., a great GR buddy of mine is also Tina, and also uses a closeup of an intense eye as her avatar. I thought you were one and the same, for a moment. ;) Here she is in case you'd like to peek at your profile doppelganger. https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/2...Thanks so much for the info re: conversion. I typically use the internal converters in Calibre software, but I've experimented not at all with conversions to word. They might come out flawless or a bit of a mess.. I'll look into in right away. Its lovely to know there's a good free one out there if the result with Calibre is a tad funky. Thanks again for your help!
Holy Mackeral I just made friends with her and we have been giggling up a storm. Thanks for introducing us!!!I have no problems with converting PDF word already has it set into its program. *wiping brow* I had to search for the epub converter on Microsofts website.
(tee hee!) Yeah, I thought you both might get a bit of a chuckle out of that. Although, quite frankly, I think there's something going on lately. Never in my life have I encountered odd little coincidences and moments of serendipity like I have in the last few months. ;)I've just discovered that Calibre doesn't convert to word, so I'm using the free version (ie: finished product with a watermark) of AVS Document converter. I'd want the professionalism of a non watermarked copy, I think, and would much rather not pony up the $40 for pro copy if I don't have to. If your 'epub to doc' converter is a different one, I'd love to know. ;) Based on other advice I've gotten in this thread, I'm guessing that it won't come into play very often, as most writers provide a doc manuscript for the editing process.
I'm officially playing around with my first edits in Track Changes, and it is handy dandy, indeed. I'm certain I'm not using it with full function, as I'm just following the simple directions on Ask.com till I hunt up a comprehensive tutorial. But its lovely so far, and I'm so thankful for all the recommendations of Track Changes. Still have to ascertain if its possible to do my editing, then somehow simply create another copy with all editing notes and crossed out errors gone, and just the proper corrected language in place. Still got a ton of work to do figuring it all out, clearly, but at least I'm on the right track, thanks to you guys! Huge hug for the help... it has been invaluable.
I usually send the author the manuscript with the Track Changes set. They can see what needs modifying. They send me there approval and then I will remove the Tracking, and all correction will automatically take effect. Walla edited polished copy! :)You are correct that most authors will send the manuscript in the Word format. On the off chance of the oddball, you are set up and ready to convert it.
lol... I actually had a career in sales and marketing after my post college years (when I last acted as an editor). The reason I wanted a totally corrected copy was more as a means to illustrate the huge improvement between the original and the result post edit to show my value to a potential client. My plan is to provide 3 versions of the short writing sample a client provides to see my work... Original (only changes made are match spacing on the edited copy, so they line up properly and can be viewed one side by side for obvious contrast). And then of course the proofread copy, with all the red pen action going on to illustrate suggested changes and their reasons, and then 'polished' copy. Probably doesn't matter much for line editing, but I also do quite a bit of content work correcting ponderous phrasing and adjusting things to create more emotional drama, etc. I figure looking at the pre and post copies side by side and reading each aloud is the best way to show off the improvement in flow, emotional intrigue, and lyricism. But yeah... all goes back to marketing and presenting value of a good edit in the best light possible to potential clients.
Mod
Ooh. So you can go back and forth between the views? Well that is amazing news. I've been terrified to 'accept' and see changes because I thought that meant all my edits would be lost forever. That help sheet for TC is a brilliant idea, btw. I'm sure that has helped no end of your clients figure it out.
Thanks so much... very helpful info! I think I need to go track down a comprehensive TC manual asap, as I'm making this harder than it has to be trying to decipher the simpler 'how to' page.
Just saw this discussion (it's been a busy few days!) and it looks like you've gotten a lot of advice.If you do want to edit professionally, I encourage you to join a professional organization. It looks like you're in the U.S., so the Editorial Freelancers Association is one to target. Through the EFA, there are resources (online courses and webinars as well as books) that are available to help you in your work. (You'd also have access to the job list.) The EFA also has a mailing list which is extremely helpful in getting answers to questions you might have along the way.
Although I've been editing professionally for years, I wasn't aware of the EFA until more recently, but I wish I'd joined years ago. The wealth of information available is well worth the registration fee.
Hi Karen! Yeah, a professional organization is absolutely a short term goal. I'd like to get a few jobs under my belt first, just to ensure that my work is strong enough to stand under any scrutiny after nearly a 20 year absence. As an aside, its so funny, but many of the 'never ever' rules of punctuation and grammar have changed SO much in that time! lol I just read Mo Hader's Birdman and I was astounded by how different the dialogue looks than what was the accepted norm way back when. Killer book, though! As I'm sure you can tell I'm rather lackadaisical and casual in my 'online' writing, looking more to get across a chatty true to life feeling than looking for accuracy. It seems that concept is pretty widespread in terms of professionally edited works, as well. Honestly, I think that's rather fun. ;) So I absolutely DO plan to join a professional organization... for reputability and networking, if nothing else. Any jobs that come from it are gravy, imo. Thanks so much for the referral to EFA specifically, however, cause I've come across a few just recently. Oh, just thought of a specific question... Do any of you guys recommend a specific group or bulletin board for catching interest of writers here on Goodreads, offhand? I've been hunting and can't find an all inclusive sort of place for posting. Some here... some there. All seems rather casual. ;)
Thanks so much, again!
Lin wrote: "With track changes you can change the display between final with corrections and final. I usually read through seeing the corrections I make then check again with the final view. Depending on the c..."Thanks so much, Lin! This advice worked perfectly, and I was able to switch back and forth between the 'Original Show Markup' edits and the 'Final' copy. LOVE how you can actually make changes on the 'final' copy, and then those changes are illustrated flawlessly in the 'original show markup' version. Perfect for me, as it's often easier for me to evaluate 'clunky' language and rework it without the distractions of all my previous edits. HUGE thank you! I've finished my first (albeit, unsolicited. lol) job, and gotten all copies off to the writer. This software is a dream. Not missing my highlighters and red pen and post it notes at all, though I definitely see where they'll still come in handy from time to time. ;)
My writer friend has just let me loose on her manuscript (not as a beta reader but as an editor). I've always used word to read and comment, nut since following this thread, I've learned so much more about it, so also wanted to say thank you for the great advice.
Oh yay! Good luck with the manuscript! Must be great fun when you're working with a writer that you know well and 'get' each other. ;)I'd love if you'd peep at me when its released, and I'll check it out!
Will do. I've known her for about two years. We were on a Uni advanced creative course together and gave each other quite brutally honest feedback (and did well for it). She got a good following of authors/writers too, so this could be my break. I've done the beta read part, now on my first attack on grammar / sentence sructure.
lol... Isn't it fun? I just sloooogged through all 400 pages of The Chicago Manual of Style/The Elements of Style as a grammar refresher after such a long hiatus... and then found out there's a much simpler 'pocket guide'! Geesh.
I'm doing a course in copy-editing with the society or editors and proof-reading in september, so will go over it again after that. I've always been quite good at grammar (although I'm not claiming to be an expert). Do you fibd though, that it ruins your enjoyment of books read for pleasure? Just read one by my favourite author and kept picking out words and sentences that I didn't feel added to the sentences. My mind was rewriting the sentences as I read it. I've not experienced that before.
Oh yeah... I've been doing that for years. I'm pretty easy to please in terms of my fiction. I used to be a total book snob, but that's changed along with my health, as I now read for distraction quite often, and just don't have the brain power to tackle heavy contemporary lit some days. There are definitely some writers that can turn a phrase better than others in any genre, regardless of how high or low brow it is. If they're just particularly crummy at it, it just destroys my enjoyment of a book, and I won't read that writer again, typically. It's pretty hard to lose yourself in a story when you're distracted by crummy 'clunky' language and phrasing. That's one of the reasons I'm so fond of great Magical Realism. Alice Hoffman, in particular, has such a lyrical way of getting a scene across. Its like reading poetry with a plot. ;)
I highly recommend editing in Word using Track Changes. It's easy for the editor to use, and easy for the client to see your changes and accept them if they approve. I do occasionally edit on PDF using a set of stamps I downloaded, and it works, but the client has to manually make the changes. It's more work for them and there's a greater chance of introduced errors, too.As for training, I recently completed the copyediting certification course at UC San Diego and found that to be helpful. But if you are looking for less expensive and time consuming training, Mediabistro and the Editorial Freelancers Association both offer good courses at affordable prices. I took a self-paced copyediting course at Mediabistro that gave me a good background, was really affordable, and allowed me to fit it in when I could.
Good luck building your business!
Sincerely,
Erica Ellis
Ink Deep Editing (www.inkdeepediting.com)
"Editing so thorough, it's ink deep."
Thanks so much, Erica! I especially appreciate the specific programs for training. That will save me no end of research, online. LOVE your business name and tagline, btw. Quite lyrical and clever.
Editors and Writers
Books mentioned in this topic
Manual of Style/The Elements of Style (other topics)Birdman (other topics)
