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Red Queen (Red Queen, #1)
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ARCHIVE 2018 > Red Queen: Chapter 15-21

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message 1: by Winter, Group Reads (new) - rated it 4 stars

Winter (winter9) | 4596 comments This is the discussion thread for Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard Chapter 15-21

message 2: by Ann (last edited Aug 03, 2018 07:37AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ann (hammiam) | 161 comments I am trying very hard to keep myself from skimming some sections. Chapter 15, in particular, felt like filler to me.

Maven! joining the cause... I was surprised by that, but wondered why he hadn't mentioned it to Mare sooner. They're both 17 years old. Do you thint that Aveyard has accurately portrayed older teenagers? Are they realistic?

Aveyard is also setting up a love triangle between Cal, Maven and Kilorn. Who will Mare choose?

Is there a stand-out character for you now? I enjoy a story with alternating viewpoints and would have enjoyed hearing more from Kilorn.

Is there a character you wish was a more vocal storyteller?

message 3: by Octothorpe Reader Leora K (last edited Aug 03, 2018 06:08AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Octothorpe Reader Leora K (octothorpereaderleorak) | 276 comments I skimmed through the previous 7 chapters.

I was surprised by Maven joining the Scarlet Guard, I didn't see that coming. It left me feeling more skeptical and made him even less trustworthy.

I prefer 3rd person narration and I would have loved to hear the events from one of the other characters. Specifically Cal and Kilorn.

I am very aware of Cal, Kilorn and Maven's (albeit skeptical) feelings toward Mare, but Aveyard is not doing a good enough job in letting you feel/think what Mare is feeling/thinking (towards Cal, Kilorn and Maven).

I am still not enjoying the writing style of this author. I find myself repeatedly re-reading events leading up to dramatic scenes as I feel Aveyard does not build up the suspense very well. I'll expand on this in my final review with a bit more detail.

message 4: by Kim (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kim | 123 comments Maven joining the Scarlet Guard was a surprise indeed. I recall my own post in the chapters 8-14 thread: Kim wrote: "He does not come across as a very strong personality, because he didn't really try very hard to change the situation he is clearly not happy about. Or maybe he just knows better and this reflects more on his parents than on him. Still, weak or not, he has my sympathy."
So I guess that wasn't about weakness. Maybe he already intended to join and quickly realized Mare would likely be a good ally to have close by. Anyway, in the reasons he gives to join, it really looks like he is a good guy with his heart in the right place.
That he didn't tell Mare before is not illogical. They did not have that level of trust in their relationship yet and he couldn't be sure of her joining until he saw her at the meeting.

I find it hard to judge whether they are 'realistic' as 17-year-olds. Level of maturity is much more a result of the society you live in and the things you've experienced than simply your age.
Mare has had a rough upbringing, in poverty, with a disabled dad, seeing her three brothers shipped of to war, forced to find a way to contribute to help her family out. Maven has never felt these hardships himself, but he has seen the horrors and injustice of his society firsthand on a relatively young age. I think the way they act is not illogical considering these factors, maybe a bit too naive...

I'm not a fan of the love triangles (or squares?) that seem to be prerequisite in most YA books. They rarely bring anything to the story that I feel is necessary for the character or story development. In this case, yes, it is obvious the three boys are meant to be Mare's love dilemma (trilemma?). But I don't feel any 'love interest' from her side. Let's analyse:
Kilorn: he is obviously a good childhood friend, and if 'the story' hadn't happened and they would have both survived the front somehow, it is possible they would have ended up forming a family together and become happy together. Mare does love him, and is very protective about him, but I never feel there's any attraction besides friendship between them. He's like the brother she didn't have to say goodbye to (yet). Let's be honest, they're both 17, they both lived a very unsheltered life and they've spent a lot of time together. If anything was meant to happen between them, it would have happened years ago...
Cal: there have been plenty of hints about a crush from both sides throughout the previous chapters. But this is a purely physical thing. It is the attraction that is missing in the relationship with Kilorn, but without the loving emotion. These two are too different to develop actual love. He is the embodiment of the Silvers Mare hates so much. The dancing lessons scene was cringeworthy to me. First of all, oh my, is there a less original way to make your move? Second, dude, she said no...
Maven: I don't see this as a love interest yet, but it still has the potential to become one. They're just starting to know each other, but already it becomes clear they have quite a few things in common despite their very different upbringing. They both grew up in the shadow of a more successful sibling and they both want to act to change the world they are living in for the better. So it's definitely not love at first sight, but I think they can still grow on each other.

Mare is starting to lose my interest and sympathy a bit as a protagonist. In the first chapters, she felt like a strong girl, but I am no longer feeling that. There is very little about the story that is her initiative. She joined the Scarlet Guard on a whim, an impulse after hearing her brother was killed. In the shooting incident at the ball, she is nothing but a pawn in their hands. Her contribution is not even that important because as we now from the first meeting, they have other means to shut down the lights and cameras for a short while. Even Maven had a significantly bigger part in the hit, deciding who the targets would be.
And then, when she finally does take action of her own, I don't like what she does. She uses someone who has been nothing but nice to her, fully realizing that he will have to take the fall for it. She realizes it, but shrugs the thought off and continues without a second thought or regret...

Personally I think Maven would have made a much more interesting narrator. I would have liked to have eyes in the meeting where the hit on the ball was planned, and read his internal struggle having to decide on the targets and coming to terms with that.

One last note: after the somewhat strange decision of Cal to let- Mare make a visit without his presence (see also my post in the chapters 8-14 thread), now here's the brilliant decision of the queen to let Mare participate in training. Seems like a great idea to have someone whose cover can be blown just by bleeding participate in an activity where blood is drawn on a regular basis. These royals must not be very bright...

message 5: by SarahKat, Buddy Reads (new) - rated it 3 stars

SarahKat | 2839 comments I'm on my phone so I can't really look at the other comments while commenting like I'd like to.

I try not to be picky about "accurate" teenagers because it depends on the type of person and how they are raised. I think all the characters react to things in a way that a teenager might react in the situation. i think the reason Maven joined the cause is because of his younger sibling complex. he wants to change the world and he knows he won't be king so he'll change it his own way. I was surprised that he did that. I hope he continues to be a strong character.

I don't really care for the love square. I don't care for that trope in the first place but it is a little guilty pleasure. The "romance" isn't even that romantic or hormonal or anything. It's basically just who, out of the 3 guys she knows, will she end up with? I don't want it to be Kilorn. I think they are better as friends. out of the princes I just don't really care. I like both of them for different reasons but Mare doesn't seem invested in either.

I didn't like her going to Julian either. Seemed like a very Silver thing to do. I sort of appreciate her doing that if a theme of power corrupting. Like a case study of the Stanford Prison Experiment, with Mare playing the part of Guard (Silver).

Melissa | 138 comments I am disappointed in the plot-driven writing that this story has become. Mare had such potential as a character, but has now become a backdrop in the story.

There is little to no character development at all in the story, and therefore I have become disinterested in what happens to any of the characters.

The love triangle is riddled with awkward cringeworthy moments. And the strong female character that was previously developing is being pushed aside in this section.

My prediction is that Mare will end up with Cal and become Queen. Maven will turn out to be a double crosser whose loyal to his mother. And the story will end with some open-ended plot line that paves the way for book 2.

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