Sanditon at last! (ITV/PBS)

[Louise]

Jane Austen’s actual description of Miss Lambe is: “Miss Lambe was beyond comparison the most important and precious, as she paid in proportion to her fortune. - She was about seventeen, half mulatto, chilly and tender, had a maid of her own, and was to have the best room in the lodgings, and was also of the first consequence in every plan of Mrs Griffiths.”

[Beth-In-UK]

Gosh, she comes across as incredibly vulnerable - I wonder what Austen planned for her? I do hope something happy.

I wonder what she could best have looked forward to? Marrying into the landed/titled classes would have been difficult for her, as there would inevitably have been some kind of insidious (at the least) colour bar - not in respect of herself, but of her children. (Think, horribly, how much has been both said ....and unsaid! ....about Meghan - imagine what might have been said had not there been three existing heirs to the throne!)

Marrying new money would have been her best option. I would assume (??) that staying in England would have been happier for her rather than returning to the West Indies, where the colour bar must surely have been a lot more virulent?? (or possibly not? I don't know enough about the social history of the Caribbean to know just how 'nasty' things got out there in terms of intermarriages.) (We know, for example, that in India, those who were descended from the earlier generation/18thC intermarriages were NOT regarded as 'white' by the 19thC Raj - and they remain, I believe, somewhat 'between cultures' to this day.)

From a literary POV, I wonder what inspired Austen to create an obviously contentious aspect to Miss Lambe. Was she trying to 'push boundaries' I wonder, or what was it that 'required' Miss Lambe to be 'half mulatto'? I can't imagine Austen did anything in her books by accident - they were very carefully thought out. So there is some reason for Miss Lambe's background, not just that she is an heiress. Maybe it will test the character of those around her - so that the 'good guys' can be demonstrated by their behaviour towards her? In the TV adaptation we can already see that Charlotte is fundamentally 'good' because she is colour blind.

[Beth-In-UK]

I've just watched last night's episode and I have to say it's growing on me! Either I'm getting used to it, or people are getting nicer (OK, not the sleazy bro and sis duo!). Mainly, I suspect, because Sidney's stopped being a AH (sorry, but he was!), and things are coming together a bit more with him and Charlotte.

The young architect chappie is lovely,and I hope he ends up happy - not entirely sure who with yet, but I'm sure there is someone nice for him.

Miss Lambe was last seen looking lovingly at a miniature portrait of a young man - a black man......so, her brother, the man she left behind in the Caribbean, or what??

[Emmy]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "'ve just watched last night's episode and I have to say it's growing on me! Either I'm getting used to it, or people are getting nicer (OK, not the sleazy bro and sis duo!). Mainly, I suspect, because Sidney's stopped being a AH (sorry, but he was!), and things are coming together a bit more with him and Charlotte."

Sidney has become nicer, that's true and a welcome change. Unfortunately I don't quite get why he was such a cockwomble to begin with. Like what was that bee up his bonnet? And the things he said to her! You'd think she personally murdered his favourite pet. Darcy doesn't speak to Wickham the way that dude spoke to Charlotte.

Beth-In-UK wrote: Miss Lambe was last seen looking lovingly at a miniature portrait of a young man - a black man......so, her brother, the man she left behind in the Caribbean, or what??

Yes I was intrigued by this too. Her plotline is my favourite one tbh. I also like the bits about Sanditon, and it was interesting to see that doctor.

I have a book, Jane Austen's Worthing: The Real Sanditon, which is very illuminating about how these sort of towns really were striving to grow and attract people.

Unfortunately, the romance part is important to me in stories of this kind and Sidney might very well ruin this for me. At least, if he's not to ruin it for me, he'd better do a more thorough reformation than what is happening right now. And Charlotte better make him do that too. Her being so quick to forgive and drool after him makes me think poorly of her character tbh. Lizzy wouldn't have done this. She'd have held a grudge until the man saved her entire family from complete ruin.

[Beth-In-UK]

"Lizzy wouldn't have done this. She'd have held a grudge until the man saved her entire family from complete ruin"

Spot on! :) :) :)

(I think it's still one of the tropes of romantic fiction to this day, that a heroine never forgives an AH hero until AFTER 'the grovel'!)

[Beth-In-UK]

Interesting that Austen based Sanditon on Worthing - to my mind I always see Sidmouth as the setting. However, both are, as are all, I believe, the seaside towns of the period, constructed around the key feature, namely the promenade - a stone walkway 'above the beach', where the fashionable could stroll along to admire the view but not get sand in their shoes etc etc.

Wherever they've managed to film Sanditon, and however lavish the sets and CGI etc, and however real the beach was, the big missing thing is the promenade.

[Beth-In-UK]

I watched last night's episode (except the final quarter, but I have it recorded), and Sidney and Charlotte are back to spatting again! This time over whether Miss Lamb's suitor is suitable or not. I don't think we've heard Sidney's reasons for banning him yet? He is a 'Son of Africa' (I think I have that right?) who is campaigning for emancipation, and I'm wondering whether Sidney's objections are that however loving and devoted her seems, he's after Miss Lamb's money to fund his political activities??? Not sure what else could be 'wrong' with him?? (Or maybe he has a wife and children somewhere??)

One odd, possibly 'off' thing was Charlotte saying with extraordinary naivity that she'd thought slavery was all sorted (or words to that effect), which prompted a 'no, there are millions of slaves still, Miss Heywood!' retort.(It also got the very now-PC comment of 'there is slavery in everything in your life, Miss Heywood, from the muslin of your gown to the sugar in your tea' etc, which is part of the current 'communal guilt' being exposed in British cultural media and awareness right now) (always a tricky one, as Charlotte could have countered by saying, 'And your expensive gown, Miss Lamb, has been woven by illtreated workers in Lancashire, and made by seamstresses on starvation wages'......'guilt' is everywhere.....)

But she could not have thought slavery itself was 'over'....yes, the British Slave Trade had been banned since 1807, but other nations were still trading, and of course British slaves were not emancipated until the 1830s.

[Legne]

My favorite description of Miss Lambe by Jane Austen was the 'chilly and tender'!
I have not seen the show yet. From the descriptions, I am apprehensive, but so enjoying hearing all your discussion.
My favorite 'completed' version of Sanditon has Miss Lambe ending up with Sidney's younger brother. Considering your comments above, I don't see that happening. :(

[Έλλη]

At first, I disliked it immensely. This is not Austen I said when I saw the nudes, the sex scene and now the siblings. But it definitely growed on me and although it could be better if a woman wrote it and not a man I actually like it now! It may not be Austen but it is as close to Austen as it can be I guess given the circumstances and modern times. Sidney is described as lively in the book and not the Darcy type they're trying to portray here. I think they took things from two Austen novels. In the beginning, it reminded me of Northanger Abbey the way the heroine parted from her populous family to a place similar to Bath with people of dubious nature plus the dark elements but in the end of the first episode it is Pride & Prejudice all over. Despite the intrigues which are totally devoid of Austen and the modernised black colour of the half-mulatto Miss Lambe, I totally enjoy the budding romance but I think Austen would drift the story to another direction. Certainly not the siblings but Mr Denham and Miss Brereton and Sidney in a different way, not P&P without the proper decorum of Austen's times. I'm doing a revision of the book and I'll be back with more observations! I hope they would do a "The Watsons" show. I liked this manuscript immensely and you could see more clearly where the story was going in that one.

[Beth-In-UK]

Elli (is that how it comes out in Roman script?!), what I forgot to mention was that for the first time (I think??), it was revealed that the brother and sister are supposed to be step-siblings - the sister tells Clara they don't share a drop of blood.....so it isn't incest.

That is odd, as in, surely she would not be called 'Miss Denham' if she were only a step-sister.

I am getting the feeling that Andrew Davies is starting to make her more sympathetic, as she seems to be besottedly in love with her step-brother, and has asked him to run off with her to Europe, and forget about their schemings. (He's turned her down, and was definitely cagey about loving her in return!!!)

As for the similarities to other Austen novels, one of the interviews with Andrew Davies says he has written in lots of 'clues' that folk will realise are referencing other novels, so we should not be surprised to see them - as you say, it's fun to point them out.

In respect of Miss Lamb's romance with Mr Molyneux, was that in Austen, or has he been created by AD?

Charlotte is getting friendly with the lovely foreman/architect, who is definitely keen on her! I'm starting to speculate whether she will end up with him - and Sydney will marry Miss Lambe?? Or is that more game-playing by AD?!!!

[Beth-In-UK]

I've been catching up with Sanditon. I'm not sure how many episodes still to go, I think I am up to Episode 7? (Another one this Sunday, but it doesn't say it's the last one, so I assume a few more to go??)

It's enjoyable, but mostly 'hokum'. Tom Parker is getting desperate for money to pay the builders, the nice foreman/architect is still sweet on Charlotte, Charlotte is still head-banging with Sydney, etc.

Miss Lambe, aided and abetted disastrously by Charlotte acting as go between for letters, has run away to London to meet up with Otis Molyneux, and has ended up being abducted and taken off to Gretna Green by a creepy chap who wants to marry her for her fortune. Otis turns out to be a gambler in debt (now WHY Sidney couldn't have said that that was why he didn't want his ward, Miss Lambe to have anything to do with him is just daft!)

Charlotte has run away to London to find Miss Lambe (!), and would have been raped had not Sidney rescued her (he's also looking for his ward). He then takes her to stay at the Parker town house, where Tom is trying to raise money. Then they race towards Gretna Green, rescue Miss Lambe, and she, too, is taken to the Parker Town House.

It's all quite daft, and annoying in the sense of utterly ignoring the social norms of the day. Not just because Charlotte NEVER puts her hair up (!), but also because of course she could never have stayed at the Parker town house with out a chaperone (nor Miss Lambe) (Mrs Parker stays in Sanditon).

Then they all go off to a ball, Charlotte again without a chaperone, and now Charlotte and Sidney dance, and she falls for him....only to have him go off to a woman he apparently was once in love with (we have never heard of her before, Tom tells Charlotte).

In the meantime, back in Sanditon, Lady D might be dying (or not!).

And it is here that the best bits are happening. For one of the most touching relationships is that between the cynical (and besotted-with-her-horrible-step-brother) Miss Denham, and the thought-to-be-foolish Lord (chum of Sidney). He is falling for her, but in a very 'nice' way, and has asked her to marry him. She is stunned, and touched, but keeps saying no.

However, since her ghastly step-brother has just found, and burnt, Lady D's will (well, at least, he burnt one copy - maybe there is another)(she's left her money to Tom Parker for Sanditon!) (if there is no will, he will inherit automatically, so that's why he burnt it)......plus, he has just had his wicked way with Clara the ward (who found the will, and extracted a deal to get 25% of the money), I am hoping that Miss D will see the light, and abandon the brother and accept the nice Lord instead.

The acting between the two, the Lord and Miss D, is very very good, and very touching ..... they are the two stars of the show to my mind, and the saving grace.

So, let's see what Sunday's episode brings!

PS - oh, amazing, Charlotte actually put her hair up for the London ball!!!!! (didn't suit her)

[Beth-In-UK]

I think the last episode is tonight on UK TV. Last week the plot thickened in the following way -

The Regatta did take place, and it was a social success - this was largely because the guest of honour turned up, who was a society hostess whom Charlotte had encountered at the ball she went to in London with the Parker brothers, and a 'mysterious woman' takes a fancy to her. So the Regatta is a triumph.....

Another guest there is the woman Sidney was in love with in his youth, who spurned him for a rich man, now dead. She is v. keen on Sydney now....and snubs Charlotte a lot, who is hurt and wounded, but in the end Sidney tells the old flame he isn't interested any longer....

The best plot line to my mind is Miss Denham, who has been very skilfully moved from 'villainous' to 'quasi heroine' (or the 'bad girl heroine' perhaps, as opposed to Charlotte's 'good girl ingénue heroine'. By contract Clara, the hapless, abused orphan taken in by Lady D, is heading in the opposite direction. She finds the Will that Lady D, still on her deathbed, has left all her money to Tom Parker, and Clara and Edward burn it....and then, er, celebrate their triumph (Lady D's money will now default to Edward, who has agreed to pay Clara half for finding the will and destroying it with him), on the drawing room floor....

Miss Denham is now sympathetic to Lady D, saying how her money has corrupted her, and mutters about the Will being destroyed and Clara and Edward. Whereupon, of course, Lady D promptly recovers!!!!! Throwing Edward and Clara out of the house!

Hopefully, the way is now clear in this final episode for the best bit of all, which I hope and hope is Miss Denham finally realising she does love Lord B, and their touching and unlikely romance to come to fruition and happy ever after!

Oh, and Charlotte and Sydney have my persmission to get together, but I do feel for the lovely foreman.....

And Tom is reconciled with his wife, and Sanditon a commercial success.

Let's see!

[Beth-In-UK]

Well, I watched the final episode last night and 'interesting'!

The Midsummer Ball is a success socially, and everything is going well. Sydney and Charlotte have all but 'declared' for each other - but crucially, he hasn't proposed - was about to, at the ball, and then, shock horror, there's a fire in Sanditon. The nice Mr Stringer, who has wonderfully just been offered an apprenticeship in London as an architect, to his dad's chagrin, who doesn't want him to leave, and accuses him of feeling his dad 'isn't good enough for him' etc etc, is horrified that his dad started the fire when he fell off a ladder with a fatal heart attack.

Sidney discovers that Tom never insured the buildings, so faces total ruin. So Sidney goes off to London.....and decides he'll marry the rich widow he was once in love with.

Poor Charlotte.....

The only 'happy bit' is that yes, Miss Denham does, finally, accept she loves Lord Babbington, and they have their happy ending! Thank goodness for that.

BUT, to my mind, the way it was left, with a lot of 'threads' hanging loose still, I am wondering whether, if the viewing figures are strong enough, ITV is thinking of 'another Downton Abbey'???!!

There could easily be another series to my mind.

The only challenge would be finding a better location for it - it really needs to be filmed somewhere like Sidmouth, which has a proper 'Regency promenade'. In Sanditon we never saw the sea except on the beach, and the set with the new terraced houses was completely enclosed. Could have been anywhere.

[Anjali]

Around episode 3 or 4 of Sanditon, I was beginning to get interested, but then it went rapidly downhill.

The most interesting character, Miss Lambe, turned into a tiresome teenaged brat and her story became unnecesssarily melodramatic, just before it was dropped altogether.

I was getting used to Sidney's scruffy stubble and Charlotte's hatless, pulled-backward-through-a-hedge look but in the regatta scene it looked totally ridiculous because everyone else seemed to be dressed quite correctly for the occasion. Also, the director gave up any attempt at all to make the characters behave appropriately, what with Sidney barging into Miss Lambe's room while she is still in bed and Charlotte swanning around unchaperoned all over England - not of speak of Clara and Edward's goings-on!

The end was totally frustrating. Not just because Charlotte and Sidney did not get a happy ending but because Tom, whose obsession and bad judgement has probably ruined more than his brother's life, did; while Miss Lambe's narrative went nowhere at all.

The only positive was the Esther-Babington story which I found far more interesting and well-acted than the main characters'.

Clearly, another series is in the works, but I for one, won't be holding my breath. :-)

[Abigail]

Yikes, it sounds as if this series totally jumped the shark! We here in the USA are very grateful for the timely warning. Thank you for the plot summaries! (I’m not one who worries about spoilers.)

[Beth-In-UK]

I think you have to take Sanditon for what it is - ie, an adaptation and extension written two hundred years after the first 12 chapters or whatever.

It wasn't Austen, but it was still quite fun, once one accepted that 'inconvenient truth'.

I absolute agree that the 'star' was Miss Denham, and her character, and her romance, really developed well, from a most unpromising start.

She was the best actress in it, plus Lord Babbington - and a very lovely and touching romance all round, and I'm SO glad she 'saw the light' and married him. Seeing her finally happy with him was lovely.

The main 'suspension of disbelief' has to be because of the appalling lack of historical accuracy - as QN says, and as I said too about earlier episodes, the very idea that Charlotte could swan off to London on her own, then stay with the Parkers without a married woman/elderly spinster, and go to a ball with non-relatives, let alone her wretched loose long hair (mind you, Demelza was just as bad in Poldark, but hey, she was an ex kitchen maid so probably didn't know any better!), was just risable.

I agree the Miss Lambe story was quite hopeless - why Sidney didn't just say 'Otis gambles, that's why I don't want you associating with him' begs belief, and again, she has just been left hanging in the plot. Ideally, to my mind, she should marry a white person - I don't like the 'trope' that she 'has' to 'only fall in love with a black man' ....shades of the 'quasi-racism' that used to plague American TV in the 60s, 70s and 80s...... I seem to remember that although it became 'OK' to have 'black characters in predominantly white dramas', it was FAR more controversial to have inter-racial romances!!!! (Star Trek, I recall, just about had to axe that particular scene between Kirk and Uhuru where they kissed!)

But I think if one sets aside the dreadful inaccuracies etc, I do think the last episode did have lots of plot twists that kept me guessing. I thought Lady D was going to kick the bucket, and her will leave her fortune to Tom (as it did when her dastardly ward and Edward burnt a copy)(and yes, those two were left 'unaccounted for' at the end of the episode too!).

But all the loose ends do point to a sequel/next series, and I wouldn't mind it if it did.

My biggest objection is not (almost not!) the daft inaccuracies, but the daft setting - the cardboard set for the town itself, no sign of the sea anywhere, and then the endless use of the huge beach for just about every outdoor scene, and the very odd 'river scene' of the regatta, and, yes, that the road seems to only go along the cliff edge (just as it did in Poldark of course!)

The whole is a real curate's egg, but I found myself enjoying the last few episodes more than the early/middle ones, and to my mind it was only the Esthter/Babbington sub-plot that was the scene stealer, every time.

[QNPoohBear]

I haven't read all the comments from the UK yet but all I have to say about episodes 1 and 2: What on earth was that? This novelization sounds like "what if Pride and Prejudice and Northanger Abbey had a baby and that baby was Lord Byron! I think AD missed the satire. Mr. Denham is a wannabe seducer like in the novel Pamela. Jane preferred the spoof An Apology for the Life of Mrs. Shamela Andrews so perhaps the tables are supposed to be turned. In Austen, the would-be seducer would fall in love with the woman who turns out to be a ruthless fortune hunter but I don't think either would actually seduce anyone.

[Nikki]

I found it...interesting.
I was disappointed with how quickly the show plows through Austen’s actual written part, and how much was left out. I was expecting a lot more from that. Also, Charlotte is much more outgoing than her written character, or a bit too modern, maybe. Some of the characters seem true to Austen’s fragment, but much of it seems too suggestive. I wanted to get a better feel for the satire Austen set up for the hypochondriac character of Sanditon. I do really like the costumes and the actors, and if the show wasn’t trying to live up to Jane’s creation, I’d like it more.

[Abigail]

I am recording it but still sitting sickbed so I won't get to see it for a little while. If Denham is portrayed as a wanna-be seducer, that part at least is true to the original. Austen has some funny lines (sorry I can't quote them off the top of my head) about him imagining himself as a romantic seducer, not satisfied until he has ruined the object of his affections.

[Tina]

Just got it recorded and started it last night. Looks yummy so far!

[QNPoohBear]

The part that sticks to Jane Austen is great. I love hearing her words spoken but the rest of it is not even in the same league. It's not even in the neighborhood of Georgette Heyer. It's more akin to the modern day Regency historical romance novels. I have higher hopes for Emma.

[QNPoohBear]

episode 3 was a little better by the end. Andrew Davies is looking old in the behind-the-scenes footage. Hopefully he will retire from ruining Jane Austen soon. (I LIKED his previous adaptations).

[QNPoohBear]

For REAL? Charlotte running around town on her own and sneaking off to London all alone? Nope. When Gen. Tilney kicked Catherine out of Northanger it was the height of rudeness. A young lady traveling alone unchaperoned would be subjected to the worst sort of behaviors from the men! I'll forgive the cricket playing. Catherine Morland played cricket with her siblings at home.

I don't get why Miss Denham is a Denham if she's Edward's stepsister and why he's a cruel seducer instead of a wannabe fool.

Self-Control: by Mary Brunton is a novel Jane read and made fun of in her "Plan of a Novel". In October 1813, Jane Austen wrote "I will redeem my credit... by writing a close imitation of 'Self Control' as soon as I can. I will improve upon it. My heroine shall not only be wafted down an American river in a boat by herself. She shall cross the Atlantic in the same way, and never stop till she reaches Gravesend."

[Beth-In-UK]

Yes, the solo travelling etc was daft, not to mention turning up at a party with a man she wasn't even related to!

I agree about Miss Denham being a Denham...or not. I suspect this was inserted to make the incest less horrid???? I mean, even Andrew Davies must surely condemn sibling incest if on no other grounds that any offspring would be medically at risk!!

[Beth-In-UK]

Interesting, and perhaps revealing about our own society!, is how the term 'self-control' has morphed its meaning. I assume it used to mean 'self-governance', as in Elinor in Sense and Sensibility reproving the over-emotional Marianne challenging her lack of feelings by saying 'I govern them' ....as in, she takes responsibility for her emotions'.

These days, probably thanks to Dr Freud, 'self-control' usually means 'repressed'!!

[Beth-In-UK]

And 'repressed' not in a good way! ie, an emotionally unhealthy way!

[QNPoohBear]

I continue to scratch my head over Sanditon. Why is Sidney such a donkey's behind? (view spoiler)[He had his heart broken! (hide spoiler)] boohoo! For a woman-hater, Sidney should be more conscious of his reputation. Traveling around London in a closed carriage with a lady you are not related to = compromise! Leaving her alone in a room with Sidney = compromise. Tom may be a bit dense but he can't be so dense as to not realize the social rules. Masquerade balls attended by young ladies? I think not. Who on earth is random Susan and why are they on a first name basis sharing secrets when they only just met?

Andrew Davies had read too many Regency romance novels. We have reached "the big misunderstanding" part of the plot. I hate those.

As for the Denhams, yuck. The actors' interviews on Masterpiece podcast explain a lot of character motivation. He should marry Clara with the expectation they will have an open marriage and she should marry Babbington. Lord Babbington is a nice guy.

[Beth-In-UK]

Lord Babbington is lovely! His romance with Miss Denham is the best part of the whole serial! It brought tears to my eyes to see him win her over, convince her that she WAS 'worthy' to be his wife, and that they could be happy together. He truly 'rescued her' and it was lovely to behold.

I'm pretty sure the actor playing Babbington has been seen recently on UK TV playing, of all dreadful tradegies, the father of murdered twin boys - he's a very good actor, that is for sure. A real 'nice guy' indeed.

[Beth-In-UK]

To be fair to Regency romances, I would argue that most of the authors are well acquainted with the rules of social etiquette of Regency society! (Well, the ones I tend to read are!)

(But I daresay there are some 'rubbish' ones as well alas.)

[Beth-In-UK]

(Definitely agree Andrew Davies seems utterly oblivious to those rules though - more shame on him, considering he adapted P and P not too badly in that respect)(I mean, all the bits about Mr D having a bath, and swimming etc, were not intended to be viewed by the heroine....only the drooling female audience!!!!!!!)

[QNPoohBear]

episode 7: The Regatta

That one wasn't bad if you ignore the obvious errors like Charlotte running around Sanditon without her bonnet, spencer and gloves. Notice every other woman is dressed properly!

I was wondering who "Susan" was and if she was Jane's Lady Susan but obviously not. There's a glaringly obvious historical error. Susan, Lady Worcester, can NOT possibly be the Regent's mistress of the moment. She's too young. He liked older women- grandmotherly aged women. I just looked that up to fact check another story. His mistress at the time was the Marchioness of Hertford. She was 4 years older than himself and he was born in 1762! Andrew Davies probably knew that and should have known that.

Surprising plot twist in this episode (view spoiler)[Edward got what he deserved but I feel sorry for the women. What will Clara do now? She used her sexuality as a weapon, the only power she had as an impoverished woman. She gambled and lost. What now? Does she have enough money to go to London and attract a wealthy, elderly roue who will leave her money when he dies or will she have to sell her body for money? I feel less bad for Esther. Lord Babbington is a sweetheart. What he said to her was true and I hope she can become free at last.

Poor Georgiana is still broken-hearted. I like Arthur- as a friend. He's cheerful, kind and honest but she can't respect him because her intelligence is so much greater.

I was rooting for Team Stringer to win the regatta. He's a better match for Charlotte than awful Sidney. Plus, two working class laborers are bound to be more fit and have better stamina than one fit youngish man and one middle-aged man. Poor Babbington got the short end of the stick with Crewe as his team mate. (hide spoiler)]

One more episode to go.

[Beth-In-UK]

The other pitiable thing about Clara is that she says she was sexually abused when young. But I agree she's gambled and lost.

I did think it interesting in AD that he played with out sympathies in respect of Clara and Esther. At the start it is Clara who draws our sympathies, and Esther who is bitchy and louche. Now it's the other way round.

I can't remember who Georgiana is! Nor Arthur! (It's a while since I watched it)

Good point that hefty working class lads could outrow a pair of effete gentlemen!

[Beth-In-UK]

Wasn't Lady Jersey one of Prinny's mistresses at some point?

Interesting, and probably psychologically revealing, that he fell for older women. I think Mrs Fitzherbert was older than him as well. Presumably indicates he was deprived of maternal love.

(Shades of later royals perhaps....definitely the Duke of Windsor with 'cold' Queen Mary, and even Harry now, losing his own mum as a child, so falling for a 'managing' older woman now!)

[Beth-In-UK]

Mind you, the Hannoverian monarchs were infamous for being particularly rubbish parents, especially to the heir! I think Prinny did have the virtue of being very fond of his many sisters.

I do wonder why the government and royal family ever took it into their heads to marry him off to Caroline of Brunswick - it was obvious the two of them were highly illmatched from the off. Surely there could have been other available Protestant German Princesses around to choose from (that weren't too closely related!)

[Abigail]

I was bothered too by Charlotte running around without her bonnet and gloves all the time I never episode 7. And I wondered what happened to them because she had them on at the start of the day, when she set out for the beach with the Parker kids.

It seems clear that with a lot of his choices, Andrew Davies was sending signals that would be legible to viewers who don't know as much about the Regency as your average Austen fan! Very distracting for us, though, all these violations of the social code.

I was bothered by all the women traveling down from London (a good five or six hours at a minimum) to Sanditon for the day and then heading back in the evening. Where are their escorts? Why didn't they spend the night at least? And what's with Arthur being admitted to Georgiana's bedroom? (Reminder to inquirer above: Georgiana is Miss Lambe and Arthur is the fat Parker brother.) in general, Arthur seems like a very inconsistent character, and with him acting as coxswain, no wonder the Parker boys lost the regatta!

In short, when I start watching Sanditon analytically it seems a total mess, but I enjoy it in the moment.

[QNPoohBear]

I did pick up on the fact Clara had been sexually abused. She was taken advantage of probably because she's poor and unprotected. That makes her an easy target although if I knew Lady Denham was her aunt, I'd stay far far away! Lady Denham is very formidable and vengeful. It isn't right to send Clara away. Yes she seems unlikable but she was doing all she could to make her way in a cruel world where men and money have all the power. (At least she's sympathetic from a modern lens).

What I don't understand is why Edward is so nasty when in the book he's a romantic and full of sensibility. He plans an illicit seduction but I don't think his heart is in it. He's not really wicked but a wannabe. I think he will love Heathcliff and Rochester if he's around that long.

Beth-In-UK wrote: "
I do wonder why the government and royal family ever took it into their heads to marry him off to Caroline of Brunswick - it was obvious the two of them were highly illmatched from the off. Surely there could have been other available Protestant German Princesses around to choose from (that weren't too closely related!)


Prinny's mistress of the moment, Lady Jersey (mother-in-law of Sally, the Almacks patroness) made the suggestion because she was knew the marriage was going to be a disaster and thought her dear Prince George would come running back to her arms. Instead, it sent him straight to the arms of other women. Beau Brummell: The Ultimate Man of Style contains too much juicy dirt on the court of George IV and too much information on the lifestyles of the courtiers and courtesans.

[Abigail]

That Beau Brummell bio is a wonderful book, a must-read for anyone interested in the era!

[QNPoohBear]

Was that IT, episode 8? I'm so confused right now. (view spoiler)[Sidney sacrifices himself and breaks Charlotte's heart for Sanditon? THAT is not a Jane Austen ending! Not that I like Sidney but I wanted Charlotte to be happy. I wanted Otis to overcome his gambling addiction and be allowed to marry Georgiana.

I'm glad Esther found happiness with Lord Babbington at least but she's not the heroine! (hide spoiler)]

[Abigail]

As I understand it, there was supposed to be a second season but the funding got yanked.

[Beth-In-UK]

Poor Prinny - I hadn't realised that about Lady J. Nasty!

I must say I quite liked the ending of Sanditon - the characters of Charlotte and Sydney finally came alive and 'emotionally real'. Sydney 'came good' too, in that he sacrificed himself for his brother.

It did definitely have all the omens for a second 'series' (odd concept for Austen, but there you go!). I can understand why it didn't get funded though - too many fundamental flaws in the whole conception.

I got the feeling that AD was allowed too much freedom to 'go wild' with the plot overall. He gets away (mostly!) with what he does to finished novels, as his wild imagination (!)) is anchored to what the author originally wrote - but with Sanditon there wasn't that anchor, only the original 'set up' of the initial chapters, and I'm afraid he just went off the rails with it.

I still for the life of me can't understand why they never created some kind of plausible Regency seaside frontage, of a promenade and beach below etc. Maybe it's impossible to 'backdate' any of the existing towns, eg Sidmouth, because of traffic etc, but would it have been impossible to build a fake promenade above a sandy beach somewhere....anywhere? The way they did it was hopeless - it was either a fake street with no sea views, or that endlessly overused sand-dune backed sandy beach. Just was NOT Regency seaside at all!

[Beth-In-UK]

I think, overall, my one word summation of Sanditon would be 'weird' - it was ALL 'weird', even Lady Denham's mansion's hideous interiors.

Not one setting seemed realistic to me.

[Tina]

Abigail wrote: "As I understand it, there was supposed to be a second season but the funding got yanked."

That's sad. I would've loved another season or two. Always about the $$! :-(

[Tina]

Booo-oo! re: the ending. I would've written and played it differently. ;-)

Spoiler alert -







Charlotte, no ball and chain for you, me dear. You're too young to be saddled down with marriage yet. You haven't even begun to live! Go forth and invest in yourself, live life and have a ball. Catch up later with Mr. Stringer and have an adventure or two.

As for the movie, I still would've had a different ending. lol Tell me how you really feel.

[QNPoohBear]

I read on Wikipedia that American fans may be able to save Sanditon but I don't want a second season, just another episode or 2 to wrap things up so I'm not left with a puzzled feeling. The ending is so un-Austen that fans are all up in arms, according to the articles linked in Wiki.

[Gerri]

I almost never make any comments but I'm still upset about the ending of Sanditon two days later! I would be happy with one final episode to wrap up the dangling storylines. It actually took me a while to warm to the series because of elements that seemed so un-Austen. Then I reconsidered - Austen wrote about the edgy issues and themes of her time, so why not do the same now. I went along happily after that until the ending. Way to off-base for Austen. I'm still in shock, and consoling myself by remembering that at least Esther and Lord Babington found happiness.

[Abigail]

Thinking about it in retrospect, I realize what felt so "off" to me about the adaptation--Andrew Davies pulled out all the public-life aspects of the story and built a narrative out of them. It became a men's story about men's concerns and aspirations, with women relegated to supports and rewards for the men. (Bits like Lord Babington's promise not to constrain his wife felt like window dressing meant to appease the ladies.) I like men's stories well enough and found the focus on speculation interesting, but Jane Austen placed women at the center of her focus, with the public world revolving around the margins.

[Beth-In-UK]

I remember being struck, years ago, by reading that Austen never shows a conversation between men unless a female is present as well. It acknowledges that she has no idea of what mean speak about, or how, when women are not there.

As you say, her novels are entirely 'women-centric'.

I think we seldom see 'inside' a man's head unless he is telling it to a woman?

(Though I seem to remember there is a passage in Persuasion showing why Captain Wentworth felt so resentful when Anne jilted him years ago??) (Maybe there are other similar insights??)

[Beth-In-UK]

I think Mr Stringer - once he's made his fortune as an architect! - would be a great hubby for Charlotte!!

[Beth-In-UK]

It's funny, overall, how some TV series 'take' and some don't.

I think the reasons for Sanditon's failure to 'take' are pretty clear:

- there is no underlying Austen plot to keep the story on course, - AD was allowed too free a hand and it all went pretty silly about things like social conventions (all the daft stuff with Charlotte careering up to London and going to balls with strange men!
- the whole general 'weirdness' of the settings (Lady Denham's bizarre house, Tom Parker's house's extraordinary interiors)
- the highly unsatisfactory external settings, oscillating between claustrophobic town streets without a glimpse of the sea, to endless scenes set on a deserted dune backed beach (totally unlike all Regency promenade-based resorts!)
- too many characters and very few that we cared about
- ironically, too, I suspect audiences found the 'insertion' of multi-racial characters irritating (the irony is, of course, that Austen actually does have a genuine non-white character in Miss Lambe!)(but semi-ignorant viewers like me may well not have realised she was not a modern virtue-signalling insertion but a genuine Austen creation!)

As I say, to my mind, the whole 'look and feel' of the series was just 'weird' - like nothing I'd ever seen before, and nothing I really wanted to see again. none of the characters appealed, and the only saving grace was the incredibly touching romance between Esther and Lord Babington - beautifully acted.

Another recent TV series that seems not to have 'taken' is Beecham House, which is a shame. In a way, all the signs were good that it would be a hit - because it is based on the East India company, it allows for huge 'natural' numbers of Asian characters, who are not 'merely servants'etc etc, but strong and powerful characters in themselves, and therefore one would think that its ratings would be good at least amongst the UK's Asian population - (and the dear old virtue-signalling lefties!!!!!)(sigh). The story lines were strong and dramatic and 'realistic' I felt, and all the actors persuasive.

Yet it really didn't seem to 'take' and it's a shame. I confess I only watched a few episodes myself, I'm not sure why - it's partly because I have no interest in India as I can't bear the climate etc etc (I'm not a 'tropical' person at all!) (I never watched other 'Raj' productions like the Jewel in the Crown, which I grew up with, and the more recent one set towards the end of the Raj, can't remember its name now, it was pretty dark, which is not surprising, given the social and political tensions abounding at the time of its setting)

I think the one that saddens me most is that the brilliant Vanity Fair didn't 'take' either. It really was outstanding, in its casting (Becky Sharp has never been bettered!) and in the whole presentation (with eg Michael Palin as the voice of the author, ironic and amused and half-admiring of Becky).

I think the reason VF didn't 'take' is simply that it is a highly depressing story and the very opposite of a 'feel good' experience. One admires it, but cannot like it at anything other than a critical level.

[Beth-In-UK]

As for 'sequel series', far rather than waste their time on a sequel to Sanditon (ie, completing the story lines!), I'd infinitely prefer to see a sequel to Downton Abbey.

It's just crying out for the 'next generation' sequel where the children are grown up, it's post WWII, and they are facing crippling death duties, have to open the house up to the public, and all their various romances etc as the fifties progress.

The only sad thing would be that, alas, it would require the lovely chubbly Earl to pop his clogs! Heartbreak!