Discuss He, She, and It

[Sean Lookielook]

I'm about halfway through and I think the pacing problem is that there is not enough plot outside of the character's relationships to drive the story forward. With books I often get the feeling of "I can't wait to find out what happens next!", but with this book, it's more like "When is something going to happen?". I like the world she's created and the people she's populated it with, but it seems like a waste not to do something with them.

[Frakki]

Kim wrote: "When the rabbis were asked if Yod could be a Jew and they went off bickering and shouting and hand-waving at each other and the narration said, "She had just made six people very happy," I thought, ahhh, the song of my people! lol"

That was one of the funniest lines in the book.

I found it slow going as well. I really liked a lot about it. It just wasn't written in tha roller coaster ride style like so many books are. Ones that keep you on the edge of your seat. Nobody talked about loving Yod until after he was gone. That bummed me out.

[Susan]

This book took me a long time to read, and I am not sure how I feel about it. At first I was really not a fan, however as it went on I began to find little pockets of interest. I liked the Joseph bits once that story line picked up.
I found Shira kind of hollow as a character. I liked Malkah, Chava and Nili much better. I would have loved to have found out more about Nili and her people, they sounded amazing.

[Susan]

The house reminded me a lot of SARAH from Eureka.

[Gina]

Is anyone else picturing Data from Star Trek when they read about Yod? It doesn't help that I watched "First Contact" a few nights ago when Data has sex with the head of the Borg.

Also, is "He, She and It" a total stand alone, or did she write anything else about these characters?

[Gina]

Carrie wrote: "Wow, I wasn't but now...... wasn't there a scene with Tasha Yar where Data was "fully functional"?"

Yes, it was in an episode of The Next Generation called The Naked Now. I like Star Trek, but I did have to look that one up.

[Allison]

He's fully functional and anatomically correct! ;)

http://youtu.be/odHivt77qkk

[Jessica]

This book and I had a love/hate relationship. At times I was forcing myself to pick it up, but at others I couldn't wait to read it. I'm going to be honest that I skimmed the Joseph the Golem story a lot, but I mostly enjoyed the Shira story, even if it got a bit stale at the end.

I kind of loved the fact that she thought about building her own love slave and said...because, what?

[Lindsay]

Susan wrote: "The house reminded me a lot of SARAH from Eureka."

The House reminds me of GLaDOS from Portal!

[Whitney]

Caryn wrote: "I agree with what many of you have said. I like the story in this book and think it deals with a lot of interesting concepts. But at 73% done it's still a struggle to read. I have to force myself t..."

I just finished this book and Caryn has pretty much described exactly how I feel about this book. It was really interesting and I really wanted to get into it, but the entire time I've just felt very meh about the whole thing.

Also I think Sean said something about the book not having enough plot to go around and I really think that might have a lot to do with it. There is this great world and characters but for much of the story I feel like they aren't doing anything!

[Whitney]

Jordan wrote: "I saw two big themes/questions here:

1. The question that is present in a lot of other cyborg/"artificial" life books, including Cinder, of whether or not a cyborg is a person. This one was clearly the most prevalent in this book, paralleled by the tale of Joseph the Golem in 1600s Prague. It was brought home by the phrase, repeated several times, that Yod was certainly "a person, but not a human one."

2. The issue of corporations having so much power in a technologically based future. Like when Shira is having a conversation with her mom and Lazarus in the Glop, and this conversation ensues."

I have to say that one of the current issues that this book kept making me think of and kind of combines the two themes Jordan brought up is the idea of corporation as people.

This has been in the news lately with corporations like Hobby Lobby. I'm not looking at getting into the whole religious aspect of it with Hobby Lobby and healthcare reforms, but just the idea in general of treating corporations with the same rights as people.

I felt like the corporations of the futuristic world in this book (where there are no longer governments, only the corporations) could easily be progressions of what is happening now with giving corporations the same rights as people and considering them people.

[Frakki]

Allison wrote: "He's fully functional and anatomically correct! ;)

http://youtu.be/odHivt77qkk"

(0.o) lol

[Frakki]

They joy of living in a capitalist democracy is knowing that corporations own your government officials. Or, should I say they rent them.

Has anyone read Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood? In that world the corporations merged with universities. It made for some great satire.

This book had great world building, but, without any humor or emotional connections, it a bland read. I finished it a few days ago and I can't remember any of the interactions between Yod and Shira.

I do remember the house... Star of the book.

[Gina]

Allison wrote: "He's fully functional and anatomically correct! ;)

http://youtu.be/odHivt77qkk"

Go, Data! Thanks for posting this, Allison.

[Allison]

lol Glad y'all liked it! ;)

[Melissa]

I really enjoyed this book. At the very start, when Shira is having the custody battle I wasn't very intrigued by the story. After that I found myself fascinated by the book and I read the whole thing rather quickly.

I've read quite a few cyberpunk books lately, and especially in that context I really enjoyed hearing a feminine voice in the highly male genre. I don't know more female authors who have written similar books, but I'd love to get to know more. I could see quite a few similarities to Neuromancer and I enjoyed comparing the two in my mind.

I liked the diversity of strong female characters. I think Shira was the least likable because she was the most conforming one, but I didn't dislike her. The other female characters are more memorable in my opinion.

I enjoyed the interweaving of the Joseph story very much. It was another story to compare the main story too. I felt it gave insight in the main story as well. I also enjoyed learning more about the figure of the golem. I knew the very basics and that it was summoned to fight, but this personal telling of the myth was nice to read.

There were lots of details that I really liked: for example how they had to wear a skin to go outside, how Shira and friends went swimming in the water, even with the enemy ships that could appear any moment. I found it fascinating to read about the animals that survived and those that didn't. I thought Gadi was a jerk, but I liked reading about his creations.

Most of all, I really liked the female community in Israel. I loved how the book dealt with ownership of technology and how this community was separate and held the control themselves. Malkah's embrace of technology in her own body and rejuvenation, helped by the female community, was a nice element.

(I'll have to check Oryx and Crake out, Frakki, thanks for mentioning it!)

I was sad to see what happened to Yod and Joseph, but I couldn't see it ending any other way.

It was not a fast-paced book at all, but I was okay with that. I liked the stay in this odd, but intriguing literary world.

[Minsta]

One positive thing in this dystopia future - at least the US has finally gone metric!

[Frakki]

Minsta wrote: "One positive thing in this dystopia future - at least the US has finally gone metric!"

Win!

[Frakki]

I would love to see a whole series in Nili. It would be so awesome.

[Gina]

Frakki wrote: "I would love to see a whole series in Nili. It would be so awesome."

Nili, and her people, are definitely intriguing.

[Gina]

At 52% I had my first moment of emotional connection. The book is totally interesting to me intellectually, but up until now it was not emotionally engaging.

[Heather]

I just finished the book tonight. Although it was a bit slow to start and there were a few moments when I almost put it down, I really really really liked it a lot.

For me, it seems that the author was discussing the creation of life and love, when to hold on to it, when to end it, and when to let go. It is a very layered book and as I'm typing here, I keep thinking of different topics that the book touches on: feminism, the definition of life, technology, morality, the environment, and how those things all interconnect.

This is definitely a book to sink into and think about. I'm sure it will be bouncing around in my head for days to come, as I try to figure out what it meant to me. I'm curious to see what everyone else took from it as they finish it.

[Anna]

My feelings about this book are similar to many others. I felt somewhat torn.

Much of the writing, particularly at the beginning, was super clunky and awkward to me. I noticed one thing in particular, which was that in much of the dialogue, the names of characters being addressed where said too often. E.g., in a conversation between Shira and Yod, with nobody else involved, Shira would say "Never mind, Yod", "She giggles at everything, Yod". Why did she need to keep repeating his name? It felt off.

At the same time, I came across some lovely turns of phrase that I thought were really beautiful and haunting. "He is a lizard-man, Itzak thinks, he is a man of shale", "Every life is new. Every word is consistently speaking itself for the first time: birth, love, pain, want, loss."

The writing style aside though, I'm pretty much decided that I did not like the book. There was no real plot to speak of and there were elements that the author took a lot of time discussing (like the apparent tradition of the grandmother raising the child) that ended up being discarded so offhandedly that they felt pretty pointless in the first place.

I had absolutely no attachment to the Joseph sequences and pretty much completely skipped them by the end. The only point to them seemed to be making the connection between the cyborg and the golem, but that could have been done much more simply. As it stands if felt like the author was hitting you over the head with it unnecessarily.

Shira was pretty pointless as a character. She was supposed to be some tech genius, but she never did any actual work on the tech side for the most part. Her strange obsession with Gadi was really obnoxious and didn't feel all that realistic to me. Her character was more or less defined and motivated only by the male figures in her life (Gadi, Yod, Ari). The big climactic motivation for her was to get back Ari, but in order to do so she drugs him, kidnaps him violently, murders his father, and it really isn't clear his circumstances were really bad enough to justify putting a child through that. Besides, it's hard to buy her attachment to him when she goes on and on at the beginning about how she should have given him to Riva, a person she barely knows. Then, her hissy fit about Yod and Malkah getting it on was the icing on the cake. I wanted nothing to do with her by that point. Also, just in terms of the story flow, that moment was built up to for a while, she threw this big fit, and then it got dropped by everyone and didn't end up being any source of conflict or growth. It just felt weird.

Anyway, I wasn't into it. I made myself finish but it was a drag.

[Maza]

By coincidence, I just visited Prague and I HAD to visit the jewish town, but it was kind of disapointing.

After finishing the book, I get an after taste that seems better than what I thought during the reading. It was too long for a big part of the book and I felt like I missed jewish knowledge to understand some of it. But now, I like the thinking of the author and the idea of mixing the old golem story with a cyborg story even if I think she could have gone further with it.

[Amanda]

I loved Malkah and the Golem storyline. I loved the Jewish history and the...I don't know how to say what I mean here. Jewish futurism, perhaps. It was really interesting.

I was really upset that poor Malkah was forced to mourn her daughter when she wasn't dead. That was beyond cruel. Also, I hated how once Ari was "rescued," there was so little mention of him. Like, Shira spent the whole book pining after her son (understandable), but once she gets him it's like "meh, I'll let the house babysit him."

[Beth]

I'm just starting and I'm finding the parts with Shira boring and/or annoying. I look forward to jumping back to the golem! I feel very sorry for Ari, because both his parents just use him as a tool to hurt each other or prop themselves up.

I've just met Yod, so I hope this next part will interest me more, or at least give me a reason not to despise Shira.

[Caitlin]

I loved this book. It was slow going for me, but that's due to all the layers the author created. It seems as though everything in the book is there to represent something, rather than just move a plot along.
Did anyone else get a vibe that Shira was projecting her insecurities onto the house?
I loved the comparison between Nili and Riva - looking at the outsides, you'd think Nili the warrior woman was hard as rocks and Riva the older lady was soft, but Nili cared more for everyone than Riva did. I also appreciated the commentary that older women are invisible and make great spies because of that - wouldn't it be great if there was a female Bond and she was played by like Debra Jo Rupp or someone else who has played a TV mom?
And count me in with the people who thought the back and forth between Yod and Joseph was great. To me, the difference in how their lives played out was underscored by Yod having a maternal influence where Joseph did not.

[Livana]

I have not finished this book yet, but from where I'm at I'm super excited for the ending. I know what I want to happen, but I'm sure it won't be like I want it to. It never is.

[Tsukiori]

Caitlin wrote: " I also appreciated the commentary that older women are invisible and make great spies because of that - wouldn't it be great if there was a female Bond and she was played by like Debra Jo Rupp or someone else who has played a TV mom?"

There was actually a series of books in the 60s called The Unexpected Ms. Pollifax that was about an old lady who decided to become a spy. She was perfect at it because no one expected the bumbling old lady!

[Michelle]

The mrs. Pollifax books were so funny. I think there were thirteen of them, some in readers digest and a few movies with the agatha Christie lady

[Tsukiori]

Michelle wrote: "The mrs. Pollifax books were so funny. I think there were thirteen of them, some in readers digest and a few movies with the agatha Christie lady"

I didn't know they made movies of them! I will have to track them down!

[Anna]

Oh! I forgot I wanted to get in the habit of saying my "fuck, marry, be" variant of the game for the books we read:

Fuck - Malkah (as one of her male personas in the net). I feel like she would be an awesome lover and would know exactly what she was doing, even as a man.

Marry - Yod, assuming Avram was out of the picture and couldn't pull the plug on him.

Be - Nili for SURE. Super badass.

Anyone else wanna share their three?

[Mandy]

crackpot theory here (well maybe more like crackpot speculation): Did anyone else get the vibe that there were some odd time-line related issues going on, especially with the "present-day" women in this novel? ---> (view spoiler)[ So I was like three-quarters of the way through the book when Shira was complaining to either Malkah or Nilli about her mother (Riva) and they said (or thought) something like "If only you knew" and I was like "Whaaat?" and then became convinced some kind of mix up was going on - like Shira in the future will become Riva/Nilli and then Malkah. And like maybe not them specifically but maybe just like them (naive young love phase --> warrior stage --> wise old woman winning at career?) I was reminded of the fate characters in Piers Anthony's Death Rides a Pale Horse/Incarnations of Immortality series (the young, middle aged and old representations of one person but in three distinct forms?)

Various things characters casually mentioned throughout would get my spidey-sense tingling such as Nilli's picture of her 6 year old daughter who she left behind at home for the mission and we believe she's been with Riva a while but don't know how long and she says something like "it's very out of date" when she shows it to Shira.

Then in the end you get the distinct impression that Shira has transformed from believing in the "one true idealistic love" to a philosophy of doing what's pleasing based on physical needs/desires alone (like Malkah)

It's probably all crazy-talk but I definitely feel there were a couple hints thrown out there that seemed to "confuse" what we thought we knew about the characters. Either that or its just meant to represent that all women throughout time/space have similar struggles (yada-yada)

Oh and Shira being Nilli's aunt (or was it the other way?) I need to find and read the part where they discuss that again.

Also I thought it was neat that the remains of Joseph were left behind in clay while Yod's were in crystal (both earth elements) (hide spoiler)]

[Caitlin]

Tsukiori wrote: "Caitlin wrote: " I also appreciated the commentary that older women are invisible and make great spies because of that - wouldn't it be great if there was a female Bond and she was played by like D..."
Awesome! I have to read them!

[Michelle]

Angela Lansbury in the TV movie the Unexpected Mrs. Pollifax. 1999. I think she totally fits the character.

[Alicia]

I finally finished this morning - the only cheap copy I could get took ages to arrive and then the book itself didn't lend itself to concentrated reading.

I liked Nili, house and the cats, everything else I could pretty much do without.

The writing was disjointed and repetitive. How many times did she have to explain vat food, or the sterility problems? And how many interesting ideas did she throw in and then abandon? Shira's distaste for Malkah having test-driven Yod was just dropped as if it had never been, after all that secrecy. Yod shows them some ways to manipulate travel and appearance in the Net (which I kept wanting to call the Matrix - I am sure they were all wearing dystopian knitwear - I suspect the Wachowskis had read this) and then it is dropped.

The Golem allegory bored me, although Malkah's telling of the story, and her giving Joseph's perspective, was the closest we got to a real interior life for the golem/cyborg.

[Frakki]

Fuck Yod - you know he comes with a vibrate mode
Marry House - an actual house wife
Be Malkah - I have brain envy *sqeee*

[Gina]

Frakki wrote: "Fuck Yod - you know he comes with a vibrate mode
Marry House - an actual house wife
Be Malkah - I have brain envy *sqeee*"

Ha ha.

[Anna]

@Frakki awesome!