Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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Heyer Heroes: Types, Similarities and Disparities
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Heyer's heroes were also mostly tall, weren't they? I can only think of Ivo Barrasford and Freddie Standen described as average height.
Maith wrote: "Heyer's heroes were also mostly tall, weren't they? I can only think of Ivo Barrasford and Freddie Standen described as average height."Gilly in The Foundling is not a tall man, and neither, I believe, is St. Erth in The Quiet Gentleman.
I don't know if I'm right, but I think of the Duke of Sale as being undersize.
Great minds, Margaret! We posted the same idea at the same moment.
Abigail wrote: "Great minds, Margaret! We posted the same idea at the same moment."I rarely re-read The Foundling so yeah, no recollection at all. St.Erth is tall I believe, though not very much so: There's mention that Ulverston, his friend, is quite short compared to the three Frants (Martin/Theo and Gervase)
Sale is noticeably short, but I honestly only remember because so much is made of it.
❇Critterbee wrote: "Sale is noticeably short, but I honestly only remember because so much is made of it."I always picture Gilly as being around 5ft 5in.
❇Critterbee wrote: "As mentioned in the spoiler thread of the current group read The Foundling:How many Hero 'types' did GH write in her historical novels? As Carol mentioned:
"GH put herself down & sai..."
❇Critterbee wrote: "Immediately, I would say that Oliver Carleton from Lady of Quality and Miles Calverleigh from Black Sheep and certainly the same type, but the stories are also very simil..."
Critterbee, I'm a little late to the discussion, but I found your classification very interesting. Love it that you put Avon into a category of his own!
In my mind I've always sorted Heyer's heroes into certain 'types' but never analysed my own classification much. But now that you've set me thinking, here goes:
I have fewer, and broader categories, and I don't take physical appearance into consideration at all. Obviously, there's nothing scientific about the classification, so lines between groups can be quite blurred. I've named the groups after Jane Austen's leading men, entirely for my own amusement. :-)
Darcy
This hero is a 'romantic' figure. He is cool, sophisticated, experienced, a little cynical and somewhat enigmatic - he doesn't reveal his inner self easily. Other characters, including the heroine, can't always read him very well. He needs the love of the heroine to realise his better self! Sylvester, Worth, Rule, Sir Richard Wyndham, Cardross, Vidal, Alverstoke, Beaumaris, and Avon fall into this category. Also perhaps Beauvallet and Jack from The Black Moth.
Tilney
This man is great husband material. He is kind, considerate, easygoing and very capable, and has a sense of humour too. He can be depended upon to get everyone in the book out of a jam. Unlike the Darcy, the heroine really doesn't have to make many improvements before marrying this guy. I'd put into this group Kit Fancot, Hugo, Jack Staple, Sir Anthony, Sir Gareth, Gervase, Waldo, Ashley, Adam, Carlyon and Tristam (although these last three might fit the next category too).
Wentworth/ Brandon
This type has a strong and quite passionate personality, but he's a little more jaded, a little rougher around the edges than the previous two. He doesn't care for fashion or appearances or other people's opinions. His life hasn't been all smooth sailing but he's capable of great love. Miles, Damarel, Ivo, Max, Charles Rivenhall, Oliver Carleton and maybe Charles Audley belong here. (Miles could be a Tilney too.)
Bingley/ Ferrars
This is a younger man, still in the process of growing up. This hero's personality isn't fully formed at the beginning of the book, but by the end he's become a worthy match for the heroine. I've put Freddy, Gilly, Sherry and Philip into this category. I know that Freddy and Philip don't completely fit the criteria - but to me they seem to belong here more than in the other groups.
What fun this has been!
It is never too late to join the discussion, Anjali! :)That's a great analysis and categorization, too. And it is fun to compare and contrast our fav Heyer heroes with our fav Austen heroes.
Freddy being like Bingley, I can see the similarity, although Freddy is one of my faves, and Bingley was not. Perhaps because he is a bit of a secondary hero when accompanying Mr. Darcy. My opinion only, guys, not meaning to ruffle any feathers, haha!
Colonel Brandon and Captain Wentworth are my fav Austen heroes, with all that devotion and resilience.
I love your list/Analysis!Fun to read! You put a lot of time into that post! I appreciate it!
I’m a Henry Tilney fangirl. My next. Read of those books are going to be fun looking out for Tilney-esque elements!
I like your categories, Anjali! Like Andrea, I'm definitely a Tilney girl (in fact, Tilney is the only Austen hero I cotton to at all). Hugo Darracott is definitely my fantasy man!
Anjali wrote: "❇Critterbee wrote: "As mentioned in the spoiler thread of the current group read The Foundling:How many Hero 'types' did GH write in her historical novels? As Carol mentioned:
"GH pu..."
I love your classifications Anjali! Very clear though like you said, some of them would be in other categories than what you decide.
Another category would be Peninsula army/ex-army officer - Adam in CC
Charles - AIA & RB
Hugo - AUA
Gervase - TQG
Jack - TTG
Plus their military friends, and I would allow Kit from FC as well because of the similarities in military/diplomatic. No room for undisciplined idiots in either, and remarkably egalitarian within the military command structure!
All calm, competent, considerate, sensible, have a sense of humour. It must have been a good training ground!
Harry Smith being the odd one out, but then she more limits as he wasn't imaginary (and I have never taken to, let alone finding out what a brutal and arrogant racist he was in South Africa). I do love Johnny Kincaid, though, especially after reading his autobiographies, and although he didn't start at the bottom socially, he definitely was self-made. They are both on Project Gutenberg and archive.org and very funny in places!
Ah wrote: "Another category would be Peninsula army/ex-army officer - Adam in CC
Charles - AIA & RB
Hugo - AUA
Gervase - TQG
Jack - TTG
Plus their military friends, and I would allow Kit from FC as well bec..."
Welcome to our grpup, Ah
Georgette's Gentlemen or Heyer's Heroes This blog post has a good break down of the types but I think there are still more nuances and the heroes can't so easily be contained in a neat box.Joan Aiken Hodge mentions that Heyer was rereading the Brontes when she wrote Bath Tangle. Ivo is modeled after a Bronte hero. That explains his temper and cruelty to Emily.
As it chances, I just read the section of Jennifer Kloester’s biography about Bath Tangle today, and in it she has an extended quote from a letter of Heyer’s talking about Mr. Rochester from Jane Eyre, where she analyzes his appeal. I don’t entirely agree with her or find the peremptory and entitled hero appealing, but she did say something shrewd about how easily Jane Eyre manages him, leading female readers to believe that they could manage their men equally well.Rather glad I don’t live in a context in which I must find ways to “manage” another person!
@AbigailI don’t want to “manage” anyone as well.
It sounds like hard work and a thankless task.
Not always successful either. I lived the first part of my life under conditions in which if I wanted to open a bank account or start a business I needed my husband's permission. My tax affairs were included with his. I had no legal right to choose schools for our children. He was the one whose decision was final. I fought tooth and nail for independence and equality. Guard it well ladies. As the song says "you don't know what you've lost 'till it's gone!"
Rochester doesn't appeal to me either and I don't like the way he treats Jane. I threw the book in the trash midway through but fished it out to finish in time for class. I do like Heyer's rakes and some of the Mark I heroes if they're paired with heroines who are intelligent and resourceful enough to form a lasting friendship and connection. Heyer's husband wasn't a Mark I Rochester type so I'm not sure I believe she believes what she wrote about Rochester. .
She wrote sarcastically a lot of the time in her letters, so you may well be right! After all, she created Freddy Standen, Hugo Darracott, and the Duke of Sale--all among my favorites!
Jane Eyre is one of my favourite books of all time and Rochester one of my my earliest romantic heroes. I see no point in viewing him from 21st century eyes and when I read the book back in the early 1960s, I found him an amazing character. Considering Charlotte Bronte’s own lack of experience, I am amazed at the maturity and understanding of her vision. I love this book.
Susan, I agree. When we read texts written in other times, we should try to view them through the lens of those times for greater understanding. I too, loved the book Jane Eyre when I first read it as a teen, but it's Jane and her experiences that stayed longer with me. My memories of that first reading of Mr Rochester were dark, vague and mysterious. Perhaps I was a little too young to appreciate/understand 'romance' at the time.
My parents weren't great readers themselves, but they did subscribe to a series of classic novels in pseudo-leather covers with gilt scrolling, from Reader's Digest or something similar. One by one, I took them down from the bookshelf and read them. Jane Eyre, Pride and Prejudice, Gulliver's Travels, Great Expectations (I struggled with that one!), Middlemarch (I struggled with that one too!) and a few others I can't really remember. Thanks Mum and Dad for that fantastic opportunity for me to get hooked on the classics.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Bath Tangle (other topics)The Foundling (other topics)
Black Sheep (other topics)
Lady of Quality (other topics)
The Foundling (other topics)
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Jan,
If you are talking about Rule, I agree.
Both Avon and Rule manage to be sexy in those 18 C fashions (wigs, lace and high-heels, e..."
Ooh I love me a man in gorgeous Georgian clothes. *sigh*