A Court of Frost and Starlight
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A case against the constant vilifying of Tamlin
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Charles wrote: "https://worldsnotsaid.tumblr.com/post...https://worldsnotsaid.tumblr.com/post...-..."
I swear I read somewhere in between ACOWAR and ACOSF that Feyre says in her internal monologue that Rhys was the one to kill Amarantha and I was like ???? it was actually Tamlin??? Just goes to show how much sjm actually cares about this character. And the double standards!! Did Rhys even do anything when the whole Amarantha and Feyre showdown was happening? He 'loved her so much' that he didn't even risk trying to save her when Amarantha killed her.
Also, people have been categorizing Feysand as 'enemies to lovers' when it's not even close lmao?
Holy shit, that whole tumblr thread makes some really great points. I will never understand how the stans excuse sjm and her poorly conceived character arcs!
UM LITERALLY?!?!? I felt so bad for tamlin he literally just wanted his girlfriend back like Ik my homie joined the enemy and all but like he was just trying to fight back for his gf , and I know some may say that he locked her up and shi YES HELLO HE DIDNT WANT HER TO DIE :/ and the fact that in acowar she destroyed his court, she had no reason for that, and in acofas and acosf when Rhys goes there to taunt him, JUST LEAVE THE POOR MAN ALONE HELLO HES LITERALLY ON THE VERGE OF SUICIDE AND UR THERE BEING RUDE AF TO HIM. I honestly lost all respect for Rhys there like what a lil bitch boy. Rhys kinda annoys me like he was oh so hot in acotar and acomaf then he just turned all soppy and shi and then by acofas I couldn’t bare him anymore especially in acosf. Azriel on the other hand ;) (heyy) anyways yes JUSTICE FOR TAMLIN I HOPE HE GETS A NICE GIRLFRIEND OR SOMETHING I still like him
The Celestial wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "I also think she should be held accountable for the destruction of the spring court, and acknowledge how that affects hundreds if not thousands of people. Her revenge against one..."Reading through all the comments, especially yours, in this thread have given me a new perspective to how I view the characters.
Cait wrote: "The Celestial wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "I also think she should be held accountable for the destruction of the spring court, and acknowledge how that affects hundreds if not thousands of people. H..."That's awesome! And thank you. :) I honestly do love the characters and story Sarah has written but man, I do have issues with how she handled things, and in particular how she keeps trying to tell the audience how to feel - esp where Tamlin is concerned. I don't like when authors do that.
Happy new year folks ! 🥳🙏Thank y'all for all of your posts, they give me life 💖
We also cross our fingers that if SJM releases something this year that it'll bring a better outcome for our beloved TimTam 💚🌹🤞
Wish you well !
Xoxo
Marion wrote: "Happy new year folks ! 🥳🙏Thank y'all for all of your posts, they give me life 💖
We also cross our fingers that if SJM releases something this year that it'll bring a better outcome for our belov..."
Happy new year!
Yes I too have faith - crossing my fingers his story isn't over!
I love this view on it!! I felt sort of forced into disliking Tamlin once Rhysand was introduced.
I will admit, I am team Rhysand all the way, purely because of the fact that I actually really like his character.
When that is said though, I never got the complete and utter Tamlin slaughter.
His character has his flaws as well as every other one, but his downfall in the books was just not executed in a way which (at least to me) made sense.
Totally agree with this. Just finished ACOFAS and am wondering when the hell Tamlin is going to get a fcking break. I love this so much.
Honestly I am not a fan of Tamlin, but I don't think he is evil. I think he has a lot of development he needs to do and that Feyre is not the right person for him.I started to dislike him prior to the second book. The fact that Tamlin tried to have sex with Feyre before the last challenge when he got her alone rather than help her escape or assist in any way was one of the first reasons. Another was that when Feyre was dying he just begged rather than actually trying to do anything. Those were the first times I truly disliked him.
I think he needs to work through his depression, anger issues, etc. He obviously still made the decision to fight against Hybern in the end and then saved Rhysand. Those both make me agree that his character is not past redemption.
ehhhhh elain is not going to be better (but that's just my opinion)
@Tiffany the thing is though, he couldn’t help her escape because Feyre made a bargain to complete the trials. She HAD to stay, which is likely why Rhys didn’t try to help her escape either, even though he had more means of being able to succeed in that since he had an entire court hidden. But even if we pretend that wasn’t the case, shes a human in Prythian and has nowhere to go and would be hunted down and slaughtered in a day. She also kept Tamlin under her watch like a hawk. I’m not sure what he could have done, tbh. Rhys is the only one who really had the means to help because he had Amaranthas trust and freedom. It’s unfortunate to be sure, but in this case I can’t blame Tamlin tbh.
I know its been a few years since the original post here but as a psychologist I'm here to agree with you. Tamlin is flawed but is a great example of what CPTSD can do to a person. Again its not an EXCUSE for "bad behavior" but it surely is an explanation. I read the series pretty quick so feel like I'll have to re-read at some point more carefully but it seems to me a number of characters get a "pass" for things while Tamlin gets crucified. And I understand its a book and likely written this way for dramatic effect but I feel like if only Feyre communicated better a lot of this could've been avoided. Like I understand she felt stifled and trapped (a la beauty and the beast) but why all the deception and lies? I know the pending war is part of it but it feels like she acted (sometimes) like a child about her relationship with Tamlin. Like there was NEVER a full-honesty, solo conversation about what went down. And yes, I'm not sure if Tamlin would let her explain but that's why the stupid letter at the end of ACOWAR is just stupid IMHO. Reminds me of the scene she tells Lucien "tell him I'm not coming back." Like that's IT?
Julianna wrote: "I really don't think Tamlin should have locked her up, she might have been completely incompetent and ignorant about well, everything, but I think he should have given her a chance to help so that ..."I realize you commented a while back but this is EXACTLY how I felt. Especially after finishing the first 3 books and sitting on it for a second. Like should everyone live in happiness and rainbows and ignore what happened? No, of course not. BUT it also seems like this could've been handled WAY differently. And in many ways I would've liked Feyre MORE had she actually broken up with him instead of literally disappear. Obviously this is half the reason he ends up going all "rage mode" - I feel like Lucien supports this notion with his own anger / confusion that she legit disappears. Considering she died for Tamlin (and everyone else) you'd think they'd weave in some discussion between the two of them that was true, raw, painful and intimate. But instead we got Tamlins rage (right or wrong) and Rhys's equal rage. The difference is everyone bowed to Rhys. Tamlin barely knew WTF was going on. Again, no excuse but I'm irritated for sure. About to read the novelas now but I just wish Feyre and Tamlin could talk about what happened between them. That's how people heal
OL Livy wrote: "Julianna wrote: "I really don't think Tamlin should have locked her up, she might have been completely incompetent and ignorant about well, everything, but I think he should have given her a chance..."Having Feyre and Tamlin talk could potentially show Tamlin in a more understanding light and Sarah could not have it, apparently. The degree in which she went to villainize him is pretty unreal to me. Its like she thinks the only way fans can get on board with Feysand is to make sure they hate Tamlin and that's like, not necessary? Fans can ship Feysand and also like Tamlin?
@WinterRose - 100% agree here. TBH I loved the tension between (Rhys / Tamlin / Feyre) in in ACOTAR but starting in book two definitely felt the authors NEED to demonize Tamlin and 180 everything from ACOTAR. I mean I understand why Feyre isn't with him romantically. Something is just not sitting right for me. Note I JUST finished book 3 hours ago haha (late to the game here). I guess I just wish things would've bene discussed more openly and maturely. Especially given the many *life and death* scenarios these characters find themselves in. In fact, knowing Feyre is SO young, while on one hand makes her decision to just bounce (without legit telling Tamlin anything) more understandable, its also that much more confusing in context of everything else she does which is pitched as "so mature / selfless." Its like which is it? Selfless or naive? I guess in writing this out now I'm most upset with the writing of Feyre in regards to Tamlin. So glad someone agree with me :)
You’re not alone! It would have been SO much better if Feyre had chosen not to commit war crimes against Spring and instead told him she was lying, the Feysand bond is there, and they just had a TALK. Got on the same page, and worked together (with Lucien) to spy on Hybern. Feyre and Lucien could have eventually ran, with Tamlin staying behind as spy.
I am so curious as to how these other court are going to respond to events of the last book. The last we heard; the night court has taken it upon themselves to write the entire treat...by themselves. Especially with Feyre (and to be honestly the entire inner circle) committing war crimes when irked, and now they are the only ones who knows that dangerous objects are in their possession. I would tell them to shove that document up their...
Nadia wrote: "I am so curious as to how these other court are going to respond to events of the last book. The last we heard; the night court has taken it upon themselves to write the entire treat...by themselve..."The problem is Sarah will never acknowledge that Feyre committed war crimes. She'll just justify it, like she always does with her favs. It's very frustrating, in my opinion. Why can't Feyre be called out for her mistakes? Why can't what she did in Spring be a learning opportunity where she could grow from it?
I believe writer should have included pov from Tamlin, Rhysand and Lucien's point of view too, at least Tamlin and Rhysand. I don't know why this book only have Fl's pov. It make this completely one sided
Edit: I don't think Tamlin is a villian and I also don't approve of his action. His action had consequences. Whoever compared Tamlin and Rhysnd by saying he was doing the same thing to Feyre is just wrong. Rhysand never controlled and manipulated Feyre. They are freaking royal faes and if I know about royalties is that they always scheme against each other for power and dominance. It is either kill or be killed so they had to kill many opponents just to ensure their survival and protect their own like Rhysand did to save Velaris. He also told Feyre countless time she is free to leave if she wanted to go somewhere else. And let me tell you this even president or celebrities have bodyguards when they go somewhere, Rhysand is a freaking High Lord of Court of Night and he had many targets on his back like he mentioned to Feyre. To keep her safe, her new family and friends always guarded her and she didn't suffocate like she did in Spring Court. Although she did made a mistake by not communicating her message properly to Tamlin, he was just obsessed with Feyre. I am so mad he sold out both world just to get Feyre back when she never wanted to be back at spring court (I do balme part of it on Feyre). And Lucien is like my mate...bish you serious? Her sister just went through traumatic experiences and all you think about is that part?
BedRaceReader wrote: "Edit: I don't think Tamlin is a villian and I also don't approve of his action. His action had consequences. Whoever compared Tamlin and Rhysnd by saying he was doing the same thing to Feyre is jus..."I don't *approve* of how Tamlin handled things and think he needs therapy (they all do really). My frustrations are more towards Feyre TBH, especially after letting the series settle for a while. Obviously keeping her hidden away in a castle is very "beauty and the beast" vibes, but I also don't understand why she had to go back, pretend to love him and lie...And turn his people against him. I mean talk about manipulation. WTF.
I feel like so many things could have been avoided had the male leads been more open. On ALL fronts. Not JUST Tamlin.
I read through the entire discussion thread, and I resonated with a lot of it! I really wish I knew of it earlier. This may be an example of the Mandela Effect, but does anyone else remember SJM saying in a newsletter or interview that she had to add in Rhysand earlier than she intended? That he was supposed to be a villain initially? Because we know that SJM scrapped the "original" sequel to ACOTAR when she wrote ACOMAF, completely starting over and keeping some of the original elements the same. She says this in a newsletter. I wonder if this could account for some of the character inconsistencies and plot holes.
The situation of Tamlin and Feyre is a domestic violence one. The perpetrator becomes obsessive and wants to control the situation or emotionally control the situation of the victim. While many feel sorry for Tamlin, there is the case to be made for Lucien. He really got the short end of the stick. I got a better case, why was Tamlin not forgiven yet Nesta Archeron was. Didn't her actions show that what she did was a lot worse than Tamlin? If you switched the names in the scenarios, would you be as forgiving to Nesta.
Tamlin has done horrible acts, and as a character he isn’t my favourite. However, perhaps readers like myself could have learnt to like Tamlin more if he had had better character development throughout the series. I think he deserves forgiveness as many charters like Nesta have been forgiven as well.
Many people in the discussion focused more on diagnosing Tamlin. If we take the diagnosis with merit, then a case can be made that he is someone with a disability. While not excusing his actions, can one say if he is suffering from a disability that his disability obscured his judgment. He latched on to someone as a call for help. Yet he is demonized for it.
Not only do I think Tamlin is depressed, he also clearly suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. When Amarantha put the curse he new he had to send his friends out to die. He obsessed over how to save his people, but then ultimately gave up and became more depressed knowing the curse would not be broken. Then came Feyre. He obsessed over this last shot at breaking the curse, but ultimately loved her. My question is did he love her the way Rhys does, or did he become so obsessed that she was the one to break the curse that he could not let her go? Keep in mind when he finally had a shot to see her under the mountain his mind went to "I can have what is mine" instead of "I have a chance to save the person I love".
He cared for her and sent her away and gave her and her family lots of money. He wanted to protect her because she was his. But he was not hers to manage the same way. It was a one way ownership. Feyra loved Tamlin or thought she did because she felt so "love bombed" by him. He sent her to go home safe with all this money how could he not love her? See?
I do not think Tamlin is evil, but I do think he has some mental, possessive, and control issues that got out of hand and ultimately caused what happened to him. Rhys and Feyre know he isn't evil, but they also can't forgive him. I think Sarah shows this pretty well.
Ferye destroyed his court and now he is all depressed... yeah.. but in the end he made the actions that made his court not believe in him. He punished his own knowing Ianthe was lying. Feyre just set up situations for him to make bad decisions, and he did. She knew he would. He had a choice not to.
I just finished ACOTAR and I need to vent somewhere. I know most of the story because it’s all over instagram, you just can’t hide from it as the series are so popular. And it makes me angry how delusional most of the fans are. WTF is making Tamlin the villain in the next books when I just read how Rhysand grabbed and TWISTED Feyre’s broken bone!!!! tortured and manipulated a dying girl into making a pact with him that she comes to his court every month!!! Possessive, sadistic psycho. And please don’t tell me it was for her interest and that he is just a gentle hurt boy inside blah blah blah.
Then he drugs her every night and walks her naked as his possession. And of course… it’s only to trigger Tamlin into hating Amarantha more… yeah yeah 😜 He forces himself on her licking tears on her face. Oh yeah.. it’s to calm her down.. What a noble man! NOT.
Fine. I wouldn’t mind Rhysand at all as the grey or even dark character. I like him as the villain, he is hot, sexy, whatever. I wouldn’t mind Feyre swapping camps and being with Rhysand. Only if SJM wouldn’t create a monster out of Tamlin and wouldn’t manipulate readers into hating him. Why butcher their relationship and the character like that? Why making “saint” (he is not but no one wants to see it) out of Rhysand.
In ACOTAR Tamlin sacrificed everything for her! His life and the life of his court, just so SHE lives. He never forced himself on her. And that episode with the bite doesn’t count, stop bringing it in. And if you are so obsessed with that episode, well.. Feyre found it hot and wanted more. She’ll get pushed onto the walls some more and kissed forcefully by Rhysand later. But that’s ok with everyone of course. Keep “he tried to protect her” line to yourself.
Tamlin took care of her family. He gave Feyre all the time and space even if he didn’t have that time! He was attentive and gentle, very patient and really trying to understand. He asked for her consent every step of the way and never manipulated. He told her as much as he could under the curse. He also told her he would never want anyone to be a slave and would fight for their freedom. And then you’re telling me he “imprisoned” her?!
He begged for her! Can you imagine how much he loved her and put her before him that he begged Rhysand. A man on his knees for a woman he loves. And then he let her go even knowing that she loves him. That’s the most selfless thing anyone can ever do. You will never convince me that from this selfless man he becomes an ultimate “abuser”.
Even if he becomes an abuser, everyone is fast to forget how much good he’s done. And I can not bear a thought that he is abandoned and is further crushed by everyone he loved.
Under the mountain he did “nothing” because he couldn’t do anything! There are things much much worse than death. Things when death would be a mercy. If he would show any emotion, just one move, Amarantha would torture Feyre in unthinkable ways. Even worse than she did to that poor girl Clare. The one that Tamlin had to watch being tortured to not give up Feyre. And knowing how guilt driven he is, I can not imagine the trauma he endured. And know who else watched and even assisted in capturing that girl … Rhysand.
Tamlin did absolutely best he could with his will of steel while Feyre was bound by magic with Amarantha. Rhysand was out and about playing his manipulative games because he could. Because Amarantha trusted him meanwhile watching Tamlin like a hawk.
I can’t believe that Feyre would die for her love and then somehow fall out of love. Can you even imagine sacrificing oneself?! All the fake would fall in the face of death. And it wasn’t like Feyre fell in love with him as she first saw him. Many months had passed, they spent a lot of time together. She saw him for who he was. She saw his rage and his animal side and still fell for him. And the curse could be broken only by true love. And then SJM tells us it doesn’t matter, you can just fall out of it and then hate that person?!!
Anyway SJM manipulates readers into believing whatever she wants them to believe. We hear Rhysand sad story in the next book and just let everything go away. He is simply hurt inside. There is no empowerment in these books but a lot of hypocrisy. I absolutely loved ACOTAR and couldn’t put it down. But I am not going to continue with the series because I don’t like being so upset about books. And I don’t like when authors betray their characters or revenge their own inner demons (people wrote here that Tamlin is possibly based on her abusive past relationship).
And there is no need for redemption for Tamlin because other characters do much much worse things. Torture, manipulation, destruction. It just we hear their sad stories but never Tamlin's. Let's make it fair then - everyone is a villain.
That’s all. Thank you for reading 😜
Nicko Mocanu wrote: "Topic contains spoilers! Read at your own risk!I know I am going to piss off a lot of people with these statements, but it is my firm belief that the reason why Tamlin is such a hated character i..."
I’m late to the discussion. However, if Nesta can be redeemed, so can Tamlin. And he has helped them when it really counted. I hope SJM can give him some peace.
Coming back to this post after so many years makes me so happy to see that there are still so many people who feel the same way I do about Tamlin. Since Hofas was released, the thrill of being back in Prythian has taken over my mind once more and all I can think of is what new horrors are we going to see in the new acotar book that's set to release this year (if I'm not mistaken).
Tamlin, who is currently just a wondering beast, will SJM give us just a hint of a healing arc? or will she do something that's even more awful by killing him off?
There's this theory that's been stuck in my head - a true retelling of Beauty and the Beast - The beauty that is Elain and the beast that Tamlin has well and truly become...
In the past few books, Elain descriptors have been heavily Spring-related. And we've had hints of Azriel and Gwyn pairings as well as Lucien and Vassa pairings. I can't help but wonder if SJM purposely took Tamlin's character to such a breaking point so that this could be the direction that his story takes?
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Am I just being delusional and the only real pairing here is Elriel or Elucien?
I utterly hate the idea of Tamlin being with his former best friend's mate. It's so very wrong and I wish for both Lucien and Tamlin to reconcile so that Tamlin has at least one person in his corner but this theory just makes so much sense in my head.
I don't see any other direction his beastly character is going to take. And the theories of Elain taking over Spring are just next-level ridiculous. That is not how the magic of the High Lords works. The same goes for Lucien taking over.
Any thoughts on this? Do we think Tamlin is finally going to get the healing he deserves or will it be further character assassination? How much further can our boy fall...
i'm a tamlin disliker but he needs a break bro
Bro what annoys me most is that most ACOTAR fans forgive Nesta but don't forgive Tamlin :/
I agree. Tamlin’s character development was written wrong after the 1st book.
Agree. Tamlin character was character assassination. SJM basically wrote that anyone going through that trauma will turn out bad. So stay away. Messed up. She could have wrote him out differently. But I do think there is time to give him a happy ending. Because all the other faeries got redemption and they are not perfect.
WinterRose wrote: "@Tiffany the thing is though, he couldn’t help her escape because Feyre made a bargain to complete the trials. She HAD to stay, which is likely why Rhys didn’t try to help her escape either, even t..."hi, i know its uncool to comment on things from years ago, but i want to introduce a new perspective.
let me first say that its probably canon that Amarantha abused Tamlin. she was obsessed with him.. he was her prisoner... its not a far leap.
so after days upon days of getting abused, he's fucked up. scarred, probably, like anyone is. like even rhysand is. all he can feel is her touch on his skin. all he can remember is submitting to her. he's worthless. he's a failure, disgusting.
and then he sees feyre. the woman who apparently loves him.
but does she? after all, he's filthy now. nothing. stupid.
so he leads her away from the party. he gets her alone. and he kisses her. just to see, to hope, that he's not worthless. that someone wants him, despite everything. and she kisses back.
and now he wants her. wants to remember her touch, not amarantha. wants to remember love, not abuse. wants to stop feeling amarantha's touch, to love her- to get things back to the way it was before...
idk. it's just that i can see why he doesn't immidiently help her. he needs reassurance that he's not an object, not worthless. he needs to feel in control, needs to feel love. so he looks to her. just my thoughts!
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I know I am going to piss off a lot of people with these statements, but it is my firm belief that the reason why Tamlin is su..."
Welcome! Yes, here you can discuss Tamlin and his redemption in peace lol. It's a shame he's such a problem for so many people. There are worse characters by far who get redemption. I wonder why he's so hated. Is it because he was a love interest? Idk.