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Rosemary and Rue
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Rosemary and Rue, by Seanan McGuire (October Daye #1) ; MOD Takeover BOM ; Starts 2 July 2018
I apologize if I’m speaking out of turn but could things that appear in future books be tagged as spoilers? I’m sure it wasn’t intentional but some information mentioned seemed to reference a later book and it spoiled a bit of this one for me. I like to read comments from others after posting but I’m wondering if I should hold off just in case.
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to. The relationship between Devon and Toby seems dysfunctional at best. He does seem to love Toby in his own way but it doesn’t sound healthy for Toby. Even now, he wants her in debt to him and despite Toby knowing she shouldn’t take the deal, she does because of her guilt and fear of facing Sylvester. I think she did love Devin but likely realized after she left how bad that relationship was. I thought both Sylvester and Devin searched for Toby for a decade. I saw both as contrasts to healthy vs bad relationships.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away? It sounds like Evening and Toby were “frenemies” but I wonder if she helped partially out of guilt herself. She already mentioned a farce and it sounds like she mellowed while Toby was in the pond. Taking care of Home after Toby disappeared seems to go beyond that. Maybe she saw them as her chance do what she didn’t/couldn’t do for Toby.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her? Toby never seemed to like her fae heritage but it is part of her and her child. It’s also clearly a heavy and dangerous responsibility. Maybe she felt the Hope Chest would give her an impossible choice or, before the pond, it never crossed Evening’s mind to offer it. I hope we find out why she entrusted Toby with this responsibility to the point of making it literally life or death.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :) I completely agree!! It seems like this is his way to watch her and stay connected when she has separated herself from everyone else. He also mentioned the chance of him never allowing her to clear her debt, which would keep that connection as long as they both live.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off? It sounded like it was starting to wear off by the end of this section with the return of her magic headaches. I think that lure of magic without consequences is what made Toby try to wrap the hope chest rather than keep touching it directly.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me! Sylvester and Luna seem exactly as they were described pre-pond. Raysel was still a child but she seems traumatized and off kilter as mentioned in the book. Her response to Evening’s death is another reason I wonder if Evening was involved with both disappearances even if unintentional.
I think Connor is married to Raysel for family reasons only and he is still in love with Toby.
Eeeep, I spent all of the 2nd trying to finish a different book so I'm a bit behind! Here's Set 1:1. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
Historically speaking, the fae are extremely cruel, cold, and aloof. I have trouble believing that, with all the references Mcguire has made to traditional fae lore, that the very specific length of time doesn't mean or reference something. As for the penance thing, maybe she thinks her difficulties are making up for getting caught?
2. If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
Gilly was, what, 6? It's likely that she doesn't even have very strong memories of October at all. And if my mom disappeared for 14 years with no real good explanation of where she'd been, I'd probably be pissy too. As for the other, there's no guarantee that Gilly is even fae enough to have to make the choice. (But like others, I think she's going to have a role to play elsewhere, or she wouldn't exist at all.)
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
I am super allergic to cats! The only one I've ever known well was at my last job, and she had never even met another cat and was scared of everything.
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
Tybalt's just a jerk, which goes along with the typical fae thing I mentioned earlier. Evening seems a little like being directly in the human world for so long has changed her a bit, though not enough for October to relate to her very well.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
I imagine she just doesn't want to hurt Gilly by forcing her presence on her. So far I really like October--she seems like a traditional noir protagonist without the alcoholism and sexism.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
No guesses. I would think the Queen is just grieving (hence the screaming about not wanting to know how Evening died) but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if she at the very least knew something.
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
I agree with what other people said about October being jaded. October talks so badly about Devin and yet everything we've seen from him so far is relatively positive and happiness at her return. And for 10 years he had people searching for hee and never gave up on finding her
And yet you can't help but seeing him as a sinister figure. While everything we know, we've only really heard from October herself, so what we understand may ne skewed. How reliable is she as a narrator? Without a doubt, though, the relationship he has with his 'kids' is messed up.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
Once again, I think October's beliefs are skewed. She can only see things through her own eyes amd cannot understand there are many sides people. Maybe Evening's motivations at first were questionable and then once she saw the good she was doing maybe they became more altruistic.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
Assuming Evening believed it was a Hope Chest and it did in fact change changelings into purebloods, she didn't trust October not to open it. This is both a comment on October's character and the power of the Chest. Evening didn't trust October to not open the Chest. I think she also realized how much magical power the Hope Chest had in forcing the victim to open the chest.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
I sortof agree that he may have a thing for her. It's definitely a love hate relationship. There's a fine line between love and hate and Tobyand Tybalt may be toeing it.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I do think the Hope Chest made her magic come more easily. Maybe it was a hint for what was to come if the Chest was open. As if the Chest was trying to convince the holder to open it as a promise for what was to come.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I like Sylvester! And his wife (that may change, though!) I'm rather annoyed that October didn't just go straight to him, even before Evening's murder. We don't know much of their previous relationship so it's hard to say id her thoughts of being unwelcome were well founded. I think her own feelings of guilt and fear of rejection made her unable to realize how much she was loved.
Also, it's too bad that Raysel was so badly effected by her capture. I think I remember October describing her pre-pond as lovely. Additionally, I feel kinda neutral about Connor. Just eh.
QUESTIONS 7-127. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
I found it difficult to tell whether there were any feelings left between them re a possible rekindling of their relationship. There is something between them as evidenced by his search... we will see.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
Some unknown relationship between them that Toby did not know about but Winderrose did. Her mother, her aunt?? or Winterrose knew something about Toby that made her look out for her possibly. Something important and to do with the mystery Hope Chest.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
The Hope Chest gives the power to become a Pureblood or a Mortal. I guess Toby is important to the Fae somehow and Winterrose may have been worried that Toby would choose the mortal option highlighted by her life with her human partner and child. This may have been bad for the Fae somehow so Winterrose kept it to herself.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
Yes, I'm guessing Tybalt will prove to be a good guy and ally for Toby. Maybe he has feelings unrequired for her and covers it up with bravado.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
There is obviously much more to Toby and her place with the Fae than meets the eye and no doubt it will be revealed as the series unfolds. Definitely the Hope Chest is affecting her already.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
Actually don't think much of them. No wonder Toby preferred to be amongst humans. They are all too much like hard work. Not sure about Connor, maybe there is some reason he had to marry Sylvester's daughter for the good of the Fae.
7. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to. I think I would have been more surprised if Toby didn't have someone like this in her past. I had to stop reading near the beginning of the chapter, though, as I thought something a bit more unsavory was going to have happened. I also think part of the arc of the book is Toby learning that people are complicated, and her complicated relationships with them doesn't mean they don't care about her.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away
See above re: complicated relationships. :) I also don't doubt that Toby drove Evening just as crazy.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
It's only a rumor. Evening likely also decided that she didn't want to be Pandora, and if she cared about Toby that she didn't want Toby to be either.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
Cats, man. It's Devin, Tybalt, and later Sylvester's reactions that made me think about the relationships arc thing. On the other hand, some of the things Tybalt says are genuinely cruel, but he is a pureblood, sooooo...
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
Maybe and yes. I have nothing to back that up, but there it is.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I really like Sylvester and Luna (and Quentin), and I super hope there's no weird awful twist about them, like one of them isn't who they say they are or something. Girding my loins, though.
Mod
I think the longer duration might have to do with the fact she's changeling not human, but not entirely sure.
As for the penance, she feels she failed Sylvester, Luna and Rayseline.
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
I think this was touched on in the book. As a quarter fae her blood might be weak enough that she never has to choose.
I'd give anything to see my mum again, so I don't understand Gilly's reluctance.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
Not a cat person, but this resonated with my thoughts about them
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I think this is mainly October. She seems to have a v hard time forming relationships and trusting people.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
I'm getting slight echoes of stroppy teenager - things haven't gone perfectly so I'm going to turn my back on everything and pretend I don't care.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
I really don't understand the Queen's unwillingness to help. You would have thought she'd want to know who was capable of threatening and killing an immortal
Mod
Devin seems creepy and abusive to me. Toby doesn't say it outright, but his relationship with the kids is manipulative and controlling.
Just makes me feel that her view of healthy relationships is incredibly warped. He's obviously got issues too, but at least he cared enough to search for her.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
I think Evening cares a lot about Toby. She and Amandine seem to have had a strong friendship in the past.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
as others have said, I think there's an element of Pandora's box to it - you never know what will come out. She may not have had it before Toby turned fish.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
Definitely elements of that from Toby's telling of it. She seems blind to when people actually like her
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I think it has, don't think the effects will wear off. Someone described it well as a teaser effect of look what you could have
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
Aww, I liked Sylvester's response to her coming home. I think Luna is wary but understands a bit more.
Connor doesn't seem strange to me - he loves Toby but was told she wants suitable for him, so ended up marrying someone who is obviously v troubled.
Set 1: Prologue to chapter 51. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
I'm not sure of the relevance of the timing of the spell. I think she was cursed to prevent her from finding the people she was looking for. I think she calls those months her penance because she feels guilty for not finding the missing women.
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
I think Gilly is a changeling, but her power is so low that she is more human then fae and she doesn't need to make a choice.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
Yep speaking from experience. Cats are very good at getting what they want.
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I think it is typical of the fae.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
Gilly and Cliff don't want to speak to October, because she doesn't have a good explanation for why she was missing for 14 years. She can't tell them what happened and they don't want to talk to her.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
I think the "mockery is the mistreatment of changelings. I don't think it has anything to do with why the Queen of Mists won't help her.
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
I don't like him, I think he uses the changelings to get better someway. I think October may have loved him, but he used her for his own gain and I think the relationship they had was an abusive one.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
I'm not sure why Evening kept Home safe, more for the changelings than for October I think. I think October needed a break from Fae politics after 14 years as a fish and she just doesn't trust them. Evening needed october for something that is why she tried to keep contact.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
Because October wouldn't accept it and it is a dangerous thing to give away.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
I don't know he is a bit of a cat. Their relationship is interesting but I don't think it is romantic in any way. He is just a tease.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I think it has temperarily affected her and it will wear off.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I like Luna and Sylvester, their daughter is weird. Conner is a strange guy.
@Heather I assume the spoilers were probably something I said in my first round of answers because I think I'm the only one here rereading. Sorry about that, I try to cut things that I consider plot-relevant spoilers but I'm starting to realize that it's really hard to answer these questions having already read the book because I know all the plot twists and they're so not obvious. anyway, i'm trying to use spoiler cuts more liberally now so hopefully that will helpChapters 6-13
7. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
it's interesting to me that so many people seem to think october is being too harsh in her opinion of him since he is basically an adult that has built his entire life around using, manipulating, and sleeping with teenagers who basically have nowhere else to go and no choice but to let him do whatever he wants to them and he knows it. i mean he acts all 'i was so worried about you!' but like she said, he's basically collecting people and she's both rare because of her mother and also useful because of her skills and knighthood. anyway, i can't stand him and i hate that any time there's a character with my name in a book it's always some super douchey guy lol #thanksauthors
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
eh, i'm just cutting this whole thing for spoilers for the end of this book and also FUTURE books (view spoiler)
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
mmmm refer to answer to previous question. (view spoiler)
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
honestly i'm glad that i read this book several years ago because if i was reading it now then tybalt probably would have gotten on my nerves and i might have even been reluctant to continue the series because of it. SPOILERS FOR FUTURE BOOKS (view spoiler)
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
i think at this point it just kind of recharged her or gave her a bit of a magic boost, which is good for the short term but doesn't permanently change anything. SPOILERS FOR FUTURE BOOKS (view spoiler)
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
i love sylvester. over the series i don't always agree with his actions but i think he tries to do the right thing and he's actually SUPER chill for a pureblood and a duke lol also i think he genuinely cares about toby. luna i am kind of in two minds over but she has a lot of hidden baggage. raysel is just ...it's understandable why she is the way she is but also she's just awful. and connor is really sweet but also fairly boring so i've always just been kind of meh on him.
Set 1: Prologue to chapter 51. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
The curse does seem extra cruel, also I don't understand why they would bother. Why was toby so important to bother with? I hadn't considered the length of the curse until now, but you're right that it seems like there must be some relevance to it.
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
Or maybe they used the kid's name as inspiration for the curse. I don't understand why her family wouldn't want to see her to try to understand why she disappeared. That doesn't make any sense to me.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
I'm a very needy pet owner. Right now, my apartments doesn't allow cats, so my cats live with my parents, and whenever I visit I make sure to give them lots of treats to remind them that they love me best.
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I seems like it's typical for relationships between fae and changlings.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
I have more of a problem with her family not being willing to talk to her. It seems like she keeps reaching out to them and they won't respond. If someone disappears for 14 years, and comes back saying she was abducted, even if I thought they weren't being fully honest, I'd still want to see them and find out what was going on.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
Yeah, I think there's a lot of stuff being hidden right no. Maybe it also ties into why Toby was cursed in the first place.
Set 1: Prologue to chapter 51. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
The cruelness of the fae doesn't surprise me much as they are often depicted as cruel, heartless creatures with little to no humanity. I think their may be some significance to the time of the spell, but I'm not sure what it is.
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
I hadn't thought of the connection between the name Gilly and her turning into a fish!
I'm not sure yet if Gilly has enough fae in her to make the choice, or perhaps she hasn't yet lost the ability to instinctually mask her faeness. As for not wanting to see her mother, I think she thinks Toby abandoned them and is angry at her for supposedly doing so. I also think having a parent you thought was dead for 14 years show up suddenly is nearly as traumatic as them dying.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
haha I completely agree! I loved reading that as it was so true :)
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I think it's typical of the fae. In the case of Evening, I think she understood the concept of friendship and wanting to be friends with Toby, but did not possess enough empathy to truly become her friend.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
I think she might be giving her family time to come to terms with the fact that she is back and did not abandon them. She might be afraid of pushing them too much and losing them forever. I also think she's feeling sorry for herself and is unable to move herself out of her current difficulties.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
I haven't yet given it much thought, but do think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists wont help.
Devann wrote: "@Heather I assume the spoilers were probably something I said in my first round of answers because I think I'm the only one here rereading. Sorry about that, I try to cut things that I consider plo..."Thanks and I truly didn’t think it was deliberate. I could tell you were excited to re-read and I was interested in your take because of that. I’m still interested in seeing how it comes about.
I’m usually a “read straight through” person but I’ve been trying to stick with the assigned chapters for the BOM books but it’s really hard...like with the break here.
Heather wrote: I’m usually a “read straight through” person but I’ve been trying to stick with the assigned chapters for the BOM books but it’s really hard...like with the break here. The break is killing me. I'm at 75% already and I don't want to advance as I feel answering the discussion questions having finished the book robs them of their authenticity (as you already know the outcome.)
Gonna actually start reading something else today to take my mind off of it, but it would be nice if we could have the questions out earlier so we could fill them up as we read and in any case post them on the correct day - tho, of course, that would require those asking them to read the book ahead of time which might not be fair to them. So I'm aware it's likely not doable, but a guy can dream :P
Tizzy wrote: "Heather wrote: I’m usually a “read straight through” person but I’ve been trying to stick with the assigned chapters for the BOM books but it’s really hard...like with the break here. The break i..."
I tried to stop at the halfway point, got there, said "okay, time for bed", and then was three chapters on before I could blink. I went ahead and hit the 75% mark before I actually went to bed. Spent today reading something else instead.
I had to finish. I won't say anything else but WOW!
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
Like many of October’s relationships, this is another “complicated” relationship. I agree with October that Devin does use the teens. But the teens need taking care of too. Devin does care for October. I am curious what payment October will have to pay for his help.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
I did find it interesting how Devin and his clan liked Evening so much. It seemed like October turned her back on Devin and the changelings when she fell for a human. And Evening was part of that life too. So maybe that is why October kept Evening at a distance?
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
The ability to turn changelings into blue bloods is probably something that shouldn’t be done indiscriminately. There are always consequences to everything. So I think that may be why Evening kept the secret of the hope chest from everyone.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
I enjoy their interactions too. I found it interesting that October felt the best place to keep the chest safe was in the hands of a so called enemy. That is definitely an unusual way of thinking.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I definitely think that the hope chest has affected October. It will probably wear off eventually.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seem like a strange guy to figure out to me!
Sylvester and Luna seem nice enough. Connor’s marriage is obviously not a love match. I am interested to find out how they got together.
Melissa wrote: "I had to finish. I won't say anything else but WOW!"So now I am dying to know how it ends! LOL
7. During these chapters, we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to. I found myself disturbed by Toby’s relationship with Devin. That relationship sounded horribly abusive and despite knowing this she sounded like she still loved him. From what she said he used and paraded her around like show dog to embarrass the other purebloods. I can’t help but feel like he is preying on these kids and yes he helps them but it sounds like he benefits the most from this arrangement. I don’t like him based on just how she describes their relationship because it just sounds like every abused partner justifying their horrible treatment.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
The thing that I got from these chapters is that Toby doesn’t seem to have a clear view of the people in her life. She didn’t seem to realize how much they cared for her. She is shocked by the things she finds out about Evening and then later the same about Sylvester. It’s obvious that they care about her and she never realized. It probably has to do with the fact that she is a changeling and they are purebloods. From what she says her childhood and growing up a changeling surrounded by purebloods was horrible. I think this taints how she views all the purebloods and why she feels they don’t really care for her beyond her being useful to them.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
From the way that Toby described her interactions with the hope chest we kind of have to assume it’s bad news. There would probably be horrible repercussions from using the hope chest.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
I agree that the way he feels about October is probably not the way she thinks he does. It really does come off as him teasing a girl he likes.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
It does seem like just touching the box recharged her. I don’t know if it will be permanent but for now, it seems to have worked to her advantage.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I liked Sylvester and his wife. His daughter, on the other hand, sounds like an angry teenager. It makes sense that she would be lashing out due to whatever she suffered during her absence. I wonder if we will find out more about what happened during that time. As for Connor, he doesn’t sound very happy. It sounds like he may have been forced to marry Sylvester’s daughter and he isn’t happy about it, which is sad because he seems like a nice guy.
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
13. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?She seems nice in general, although I understand why she's not particularly thrilled to have October around all the time, as she basically lost everything due to her. However, I don't think it's fair to blame any of that on October, since it's not like she knew what would happen, so it's complicated.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
Because she's proud. Half her problems with other people so far have happened because of pride - The reason she hadn't gone back Home or to Sylvester was pride, for example. Part of the issue is that the fae seem to enjoy keeping track of favors and calling them in, but partly is just her being proud. Why else wouldn't she tell anyone that she's been bound? I'm sure both Sylvester and Devin would help her a lot more if they knew, and they would at least know the whole story if she died to the binding.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
She was totally fooled, because she wanted to believe it was her daughter, so she believed it. Even when it was totally the wrong choice from a logic point of view. Heck, I expected she'd at least be carrying around that gun with the iron bullets, since I'm sure a couple of those would've done away with the Doppelganger. But she let her guard down totally...
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I'm liking it a lot, but yes at times it feels we're being thrown in the middle of something with little explanation. I find it easier to read than other books by the same author, too, and both the writing and plot feel a lot tighter/less meandering.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
He cares for her, but he uses everyone so who knows. I'm sure he'll call the favors at some point, particularly healing her of the poisoning. His relationship with her is awfully toxic anyway, so I can't possibly like the character. He's an old guy who takes in homeless teenagers in exchange for sex, I mean. That's... not OK.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
We probably will, or at least so I expect, but mostly because it's the logical conclusion to the plot - and most novels, even series, try to close their main storyline in the same book, only leaving overarching ones hanging. I also expect she'll retain all of her limbs, tho I wouldn't put it past her to find a way to get shot a few more times before the book is over. It seems to be a bit of a passtime for her these days.
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
I'm torn on Devin. He's obviously taking advantage of these kids, but at the same time providing them with a relatively safe place to go when no one else wants them. I can see how that would mess a kid up, but also how that person could become important to them. I'm interested in seeing how his character progresses.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
I feel like I need more of their backstory to be able to answer that. I don't know how the initially met, what their interactions were like, and what their relationship actually looked like. Clearly Evening cared for her, but why?
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
I think she probably got it while October was a fish. I don't think that's something she would have kept from her.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
He seems like he will be an interesting character watch develop during the series as well. And October seems to hate everyone she loves, so I think this is just more of the same.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
Either the hope chest, or something about how she was released from her fish enchantment. I'm guessing it will continue or get stronger, as she's a more interesting lead character with more powers. :)
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I'm a little puzzled as to why its October's a failure since she didn't find Sylvester's wife and daughter. Surely she wasn't the only person/group sent out looking for them? I have no idea what Connor's deal is...just kind of creepy right now.
Mod
1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
I wasn't surprised about the Fae as this depiction of them is pretty common in the UF I have read. I hadn't thought about the 14 years being double 7. I think she said it was 14 years and 2 days, and so I just thought it was a random number that the spell wore off because she kept going into the sun. I can only assume she calls it her penance because she walked straight into that trap and didn't save the people she was trying to find
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
That is a good question. I guess not everyone with Fae blood is a changeling - which is what the question was to October when she was young and dragged back to the Summerlands.
I wondered about this too about the daughter & husband. If my partner, or mother, disappeared and turned up 14 years later unchanged I think I would have some questions.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
Lol I liked this too. I have always been a cat person, they are just my kind of creature. You know when they come near you it is because they WANT to. No servitude with a cat.
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
Probably both. She has tried to ignore their world, so I think she has very few bonds. I imgine the fae bonds are generally more about debt and favours
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
Well technically she is in her 60s, but she looks like she is in her 30s. And looks no different to the day she disappeared. How do you go to your daughter and look the same age as her? How do you explain 14 years of being away? This is the biggest hole in the story for me as I can only image tabloids going crazy with a story like that. Abducted for 14 years? No explanation? Not looking a day older?
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
Clearly something big is going on. I guess she wanted October because she is so far removed from the fae and their polictics so she could trust her
Mod
I totally forgot about that.!
Mod
teehee
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
Their relationship is super creepy.Devin has so much control over Toby and the other young changelings, so they can never have aa true relationship- the power dynamic is all screwed up. He's basically hooking up with teenagers. I don't care if he care about her, or thinks he cares about her- he's a creep.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
It does seem like Toby pushes people away a lot. But the fae seem like horrible people who are always one step away from hurting you. So maybe Toby is right to keep everyone at a distance. That being said, maybe there's more to their relationship than Toby knows. Maybe there's some connection between them.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
It seems like no one really knows what the chests are actually for, or how powerful they might be. It's like Toby calling it Pandora's box, do you really want to risk the possible consequences of opening the chest?
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
It does kind of seem like he's the boy teasing the girl he likes- but grow up, dude!
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I'm not sure about this. In other books, it always turns out the main character was actually more powerful than she seemed, and had some sort of spell put on her to dampen her powers. Maybe something like that is happening
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
The family-besides the daughter- seem like the least horrible fae we've met so far. Hopefully it's not all some kind of trick.
13. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?I did wonder a lot about Lily considering that Toby was stuck in her domain for 14 years. Finding out Lily was also trapped during that time explains a bit but also makes it sound like Lily isn’t very strong. She does, however, sound nice and from what Toby said maybe a friend of her mother. I think Lily is also still trying to recover from whatever Simon did to her as well.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and you're going off and leaving me to deal with this alone! "Why would October say she is doing this alone? From what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
I think Toby is one of those people who feel they need to do everything on their own. Toby also has shown over the course of the book that she doesn’t really trust anyone currently. This is probably a factor in why she feels she has to do it alone. She did reach out to the Queen for help as was turned away. I think after that she felt there was no one else who would feel obligated to help her find Evening’s killer.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
I think that she was caught by surprise. She answered the door probably because she was expecting Devin’s kids to show up. Then she was caught off guard by seeing her daughter. I think in the beginning she was fooled mostly because she desperately wants to see her daughter but then reality set in and she realized it couldn’t be her daughter.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I actually do like the writing style as it is all from October's point of view. However, it does throw characters at you left and right as they come into the story. It's not bad but it is a bit like playing catch up to keep the characters straight.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
I don’t trust Devin. I really am finding it hard to like him. Maybe he does care some for October but all I see is a manipulative abuser. He takes already broken children and manipulates them to rely on him and breaks them some more. Dare said it best when October told her Devin isn’t keeping her captive and she replied that if she thinks that October got stupid. Devin is not teaching them how to grow up and survive but instead to rely on and be subservient to him. I think Devin may care about October but most of it is probably that October got away from him.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
I think she will find out more once she gets to Evening’s home. I’m pretty sure she will find the killer but unsure if she will do it without any more injuries.
Chapters 6-137. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
He seems really creepy to me like a drug dealer who is also a pimp. But then again Toby is so jaded and he seemed to actually care about her when he disappeared that I'm wondering if the view we get about him is distorted through her warped sense of things.
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
Again, I think this is because Toby hates the fae, she's jaded, and she thinks that no one truly cares for her.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
The myth's also mentioned that they could turn a changeling into a human depending on their intent. I think Evening didn't offer it or tell her about it right away because even she didn't (most likely) know what it could do and she knew it would be sought after and she didn't want to put Toby in danger but she trusted her enough with it when she knew she was about die. Maybe the people who killed Evening were the ones who had the box previously?
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
Tybalt confuses me. Maybe it's the lack of humanity that makes him act so strangely or we don't know the whole history between him and Toby.
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I think it is the hope chest that affected her. I don't have a clue as to whether it will wear off or not. I'm going to guess not though.
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
It seems they really care about her and it was her own guilt that caused her not to go them initially. They seem genuine, except the daughter, she seems cray cray. Conner, I bet, loves Toby but married Reysaline out of duty.
13. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?I am (was, I've finished the book) insisting on not having expectations, for that way lies figuring out twists way too early and being really annoyed with the book. I liked her, though.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
She doesn't feel safe telling anyone everything, including Sylvester. Metatextually, I think McGuire is trying to take a traditional noir protagonist and give her an arc to be less traditional.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
Hope got the best of her.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
There are sequel hooks all over this book that I'm honestly looking forward to. I read the book very quickly, and while I wouldn't call it amazing literature, I enjoyed it a whole lot. I'm even about halfway through the second book (which is, ah, somewhat less good).
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
I'm not going to answer this one since I've finished the book already, because it seems unfair.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limbs still attached?
See above
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
i don't know if i really 'expected' anything from her back when i first read this, although i do like her and i think she tries to do as much as she can to help
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
i think it's just a combination of a lot of reasons: on some level i don't think she feels like she deserves help, she's probably put off because the queen rejected her so forcefully, she doesn't like owing people things [and in faerie who can blame her], she feels like she has to be twice as good at everything bc she's a changeling, she's embarrassed that she got bound, she's still trying to adjust after being away for so long etc etc. i agree that she behaves completely irrationally at times but i think she's been through a lot at this point so it's kind of understandable.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
i think everyone has that one person who they would just let in with no questions asked and the doppelganger was smart enough to realize that was her daughter. i mean she did still catch on pretty quickly but i think she just wanted it so badly to be her daughter that she immediately accepted it.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
well, i've read it before so i know who everyone is by now but i don't remember being confused the first time through. i guess there are a lot of characters but to me they all have very distinct personalities and descriptions so it's easy to keep them separate [unlike some books that are like here are 10 super bland white men with the least imaginative names ever, good luck remembering who is who!]. this is probably my favorite series of hers so i like the writing style, although i know a lot of people don't like first person [which i've never understood, but it's a complaint i see A LOT]
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
i mean ...he's literally a creepy abusive asshole who has sex with teenagers soooo ...just like by default no you cannot trust that kind of person. as far as evening's murder goes (view spoiler)
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
yeah seanan is pretty good about not doing cliffhangers, at least not on the main mystery in each book, so don't worry you will have your answers soon!
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
To be honest, I didn't have any expectations of this character. None of the characters seem to have positive relationships even when they are supposed to be friends or allies.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
She has a lot of self doubt and doesn't seem to like herself very much. And she is obviously damaged from the curse and her partner's and daughter's reaction when she returned. She seems to trust no one thus her reluctance to ask for help or feel that she has anyone in her corner.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door
I think the hope and love she has for her daughter and the painful circumstances that they have no relationship would have clouded her thinking. She wanted that doppelganger to be her daughter so badly she didn't think it through . Very sad.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I've finished but it wasn't my favourite urban fantasy series by a long shot. And coming off reading a fantastic example in the genre the latest Ilona Andrews probably didn't help matters. (Even though it did take me a couple of books to really get into the Kate Daniels world!) Even though I don't mind "dark" Rosemary and Rue was very depressing as not one character seemed positive or not pushing an agenda of some kind. And yes, I agree the jumping between characters wasn't well explained and it didn't make it a smooth read.. just my thoughts
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
Who knows... it could go either way with Devin, although the writing is slanted that he will stay a bad guy.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
I'd say there will be some kind of resolution to that murder but still a lot unanswered to continue on the series.
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
I liked hearing the reason she didn't come to help Toby when Toby was in trouble. She seems like another victim of all the bad stuff happening in the fae world.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
She has people who say they will help, but everyone seems to have a price attached to their help. And a lot of people have let her down, so i understand why she would feel all alone. It seems like every time she asks for help, she falls further into debt with the others.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
She's been through a lot, so her defenses were probably not as strong as normal. And she really misses her daughter, so there was a little bit of wishful thinking happening too
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I like the writing style, but I really dislike most of the characters. Or maybe it's just the world they exist in. There's so many characters, and it seems like the majority are awful.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
He makes people pay of their debts by sleeping with him. I really don't like this character.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
God I hope she figures out who did it, i want some level of resolution in this book. Whether it will happen before she gets shot again, who knows
Mod
7. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.
I think he is a pretty bad SOB. Possibly quite evil. He clearly rules with command and control including having sexual relationships with the children.
What she had with him is not a healthy relationship. I would say most people would call it abuse, even if she felt it was consensual at the time, he did have a major hold over her.
I'm not sure why he searched for 10 years. She thinks he wanted her because of her family, but maybe there was more to it
8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?
This is interesting. I would like to know more about their relationship. And Evening was living in the human world and was like 1000 years old so maybe Home became a pet project for her.
9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?
Well that is just a story, and although it likely has some truth to it, the chest is no doubt dangerous. I don't think evening would have had the chance to tell her - October was ignoring her.
10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)
I like her reasons for giving it to him. He is an interesting character
11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?
I think it has had an impact which is why she was right to give it to someone else. Who knows what it may do with prolonged contact
12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!
I loved this. Finally some nice fae who are like "family" to her (other than the crazy daughter. LOL).
As for Connor. Well, jury is still out. He was forced to marry eventhough he still holds a candle for October. Will be interesting to see where this leads
Set 3 Chapters 13-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
Didn't really have any expectations of Lily. I only got the impression that she was and an authority figure to October. She seems nice, kind. It was interesting to find out why she didn't help October when she was being turned into a fish. So she was also a victim of the fish spell.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
October has lots of mixed emotions. Some of them make more sense than others. Guilt, pride, fear, hatred, etc. She couldn't ask for help not because she didn't have the resources at hand, but because she couldn't get over herself.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
Yes, I think she was really fooled. One of the things she probably wants more than anything is to reunite with her daughter. So even the possibility of her daughter coming to her door... October couldn't resist.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
To be honest, I think there's probably an average amount of characters. At the same time I am currently reading The Count of Monte Carlo. Now that has a massive cast of characters!
This genre is out of my comfort zone. So I'm not really sure if it's outstanding compared to others. I'm not overly impressed. Unless something drastic happens, I probably will not continue with the series.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
Devin's and October's relationship is still really messed up. He gets kudos for being there when October really needed him. But then he still took advantage of her. It probably will not happen in this book, but I do not see them having a happy ending.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
Yes I do think she will find Evening's killer in this book. Only really because, well, author's generally try to wrap everything up in a nice meet Bo. I don't think a lot of the plot lines will be finished, though.
So I have a quick question for others that have read books that are similar to this. This is the first book I've read that have had fae in them. From other responses here, I gather that not only are they common characters in the fantasy genre, but a lot of fae in books have similar backgrounds, lore, characteristics, etc. In this book, fae cannot thank each other. Is that a common fae rule or is that just a rule in this book?
Sarah wrote: "So I have a quick question for others that have read books that are similar to this. This is the first book I've read that have had fae in them. From other responses here, I gather that not only ar..."I haven't read many (any!) novels starring fairies before, but a quick google search for "fairy" and "thank you" returned a handful of results, many of them older than this book, stating fairies should not be thanked as they consider it impolite.
So my guess is, it's based in an aspect of mythology or folklore, though not sure of which country. It's clearly not something the author made up on the spot, tho.
Tizzy wrote: "Sarah wrote: "So I have a quick question for others that have read books that are similar to this. This is the first book I've read that have had fae in them. From other responses here, I gather th..."Thank you for looking up the answer when you didn't have to! Much obliged.
Mod
Her penance for screwing up the job & letting down her boss dude? Presumably the fish-curse dude is going to be involved in the murder conspiracy thing?
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
I'd've thought so! I hope we get more of that relationship in the book. I wasn't entirely clear what the cover story was for the disappearance though
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
Cats & fae being similar is a comparison I've seen before. Terry Pratchett, maybe - the "playing with their prey" thing though, rather than the "I'm living my life and you will provide me with whatever I need when I need it" attitude. Gotta love cats, though! :)
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I enjoyed Tybalt! October seems to be in a super-bad place mentally (can't really blame her, mind) and reacting badly to everything. I hope her character improves over the book, because I'm not having much fun in her head right now...
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
See above. She's all depressed about her screwed up life and so isn't making good decisions at all.
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
I was wondering when we’d meet her! I like her well enough and glad to better understand why she wasn’t able to help Toby when she was a fish. But, we didn’t get too much of a glimpse from of her so hard to form a good impression.
14. “Screw you, Evening!" I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!" Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
Could be because she’s the only one who is bound which mean she has to be the one to figure things out. I also think she’s still unsure of her place in the world as well as who her friends are after being gone for so long.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
I think she was just so shell shocked to see what appeared to be her daughter that she temporarily let her guard down and by the time she realized her mistake it was too late.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I agree, there are a lot of characters introduced, but not all seem to have a purpose. And if they do it’s seems to only be for a moment before moving on to something else and another character.
I like it so far, but I’m not sure how I feel about Toby. I like her for the most part, but her self-pity and her interactions with some characters, particularly Devin, makes me dislike her a bit.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
He sounds like a class A predator and I don’t like him at all. I also really dislike Toby for willingly going to him for help and getting in his bed.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
I think she’ll find her killer before the books end. At least I hope it’s not a cliff-hanger!
Set 4: 21-end Finished!
19. October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect?
20. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
21 Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
22. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
23. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
24. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
i was actually surprised to see how much i had forgotten from thi book and also how many things i THOUGHT were part of this book that are apparently actually only revealed in later books lol is anyone interested in continuing the series with more buddy reads?Set 4: 21-end
1. October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect?
at this point in the story i don't think i really cared about the romance aspect. romance is never an overwhelming part of this series but - devin aside - i do think she has pretty decent taste in men and i am actually so happy with who she eventually ends up with, although at this point i definitely wasn't shipping it yet. SPOILERS FOR FUTURE BOOKS (view spoiler)
2. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
i do really like the luidaeg [i just wish i could spell her name without double checking lol]. she's not always nice but it's usually because she literally can't be [you get a bit of that here what with her being 'bound by the rules' and stuff] and she's definitely interesting. i think toby did it partly bc she was trying to protect herself in the moment without looking ahead but also because she just always has to constantly be pushing people and boundaries so sometimes it's like she does something just to see if she can
3. Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
i can't remember if i was surprised the first time through, but i'm sure i probably just wanted it to be him because i dislike him so much lol. and i think that despite all the bad memories of him she also has good memories as well and wants to believe that like ~things could be different this time~. he represents a very different time in her life and even though she knows better now i think she kind of gets in that old mindset around him.
4. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
haha i loved that part too. toby is definitely always going to be my favorite character, and she's probably the one we saw the most of in this book besides devin. i do love other characters from this book but they haven't really done much at this stage.
5. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
i don't think he knew, although i can't remember for sure and like you said he surely must have kind of suspected something. i definitely don't think her daughter knew because she was 2 when october disappeared so probably too young to notice anything was weird.
6. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
i love it, like i said before it's probably one of my favorite series so i'm excited to be rereading it and hope we can continue the buddy reads. i was surprised how many things were casually mentioned in this book that turn out to be huge plot points later, seanan was definitely planning ahead!
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected?
Actually, she was exactly as I expected. With the exception of what happened to her when Toby was turned into a fish. That was a bit of a surprise.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help?
She does ask for help, however sparingly. I think it's part pride and part guilt and being part fae. In a sense though she is doing it alone. She's the only one who is bound to find out who murdered her. She's the only one investigating (at all it would seem) and she has to do it from beginning to end no matter who helps in between.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door.
Because that's how desperate she is to have her daughter back in her life. She figured it out quickly though. It showed just how she feels about not being in her daughter's life anymore.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style?
I really like her style of writing. Even if I don't quite understand all the characters right now I suspect they will appear in later books and I can get more info then. The author kept it the point and didn't spend time writing too much about others when it just wasn't necessary to do so.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return?
I've finished the book so I'm going to skip this one.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached?
Again, skipping.
Set 4: 21-end Finished!
19. October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect?
Ehh I don't care too much but I like Conner, except for the married part, and I also like Tybalt. Tybalt seems like the possessive alpha male.
20. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
I really like her too!! She reminds me of Ursula from the little mermaid in the way that she helps but you will owe her a great debt and to reverse it on her could cost Toby dearly for it later on. I think she will be important in later books yes.
21. Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
I wasn't surprised no I started to guess it as it got closer to the end. I think she trusted him because even though he had been abusive to her he never seemed insane. Seems he went insane during the 14 she was missing.
22. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
I really enjoyed this part as well especially their indifference to taking her there. Lol this describes cats so well.
I think Luna is one of my favorites after Toby.
23. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
I thought Cliff was just her fiancé? As for controlling the illusion and hiding it from them, no it did not explain that. Maybe since dawn is so early she could sneak out of bed and hide in the bathroom? Or maybe being inside was better than out in the sun?
24. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
I really enjoyed it and will probably keep reading the series. I'm hoping for more on her daughter and for her to come around and want Toby in her life again.
1. October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect?I don't care about it a lot, although I also don't think she's particularly popular - it just happens to be she has a suitor (Tybalt) and an old flame (Connor.) Devin doesn't count for obvious reasons. I wouldn't mind knowing what will happen with her personal life, but I expect whatever does happen will tie up to the main plot of future books.
2. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
I think Toby forced The Luidaeg in her debt to keep her from killing her, as once all four questions had been answered she would be able to dispose of her without a second thought. The Luidaeg openly dislikes Toby's bloodline, so I believe she was just covering her back by doing this - which was smart.
3. Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
Not very surprised, no. Particularly because on chapter 21 the Luidaeg basically called him out by stating she "still hadn't found it." Toby trusted him out of instinct and shared experience, because of the relationship they had. Though then again she should have never trusted him to begin with.
4. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
I liked Tybalt and Sylvester, although the character who I loved the most in the end was Luna.
And by the way, it was Luna's cat who delivered the key to Toby. Which makes me wonder if Luna had something to do with the whole thing - I mean, Evening knew she'd likely get killed. So perhaps she made a backup plan including Luna's cat?
5. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
I believe it is implied that he didn't know she was a changeling. She does mention she had to lead a daytime life when she was married, which she managed with ridiculous amounts of coffee.
6. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
It was good! It's the best UF book I've read, and I wouldn't mind reading more - although I'll probably wait for a sale, as I'm not necessarily itching for more. I just wouldn't frown at book 2 if it landed on my desk.
1. October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect? I’m not really picky about who Toby gets with eventually though I will instantly say I’m opposed to Conner. Arranged marriage or not he is still married and that’s a no for me. The fact he still made moves on Toby despite being married instantly put him on my permanent no list.
2. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
The Luidaeg seems interesting and I want to know more about her. Since Toby does still have an open favor from her I’m sure she will come back into the books again in the future. The Luidaeg also based on what everyone said does not like having open debts and because of this, I feel it could turn out to be a mistake on her part. It could go the other way but it does seem a bit like a mistake.
3. Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
I was not surprised it was Devin as I also did not like or trust him from the beginning. Finding out he was the one behind everything was not a surprise for me. I think it hit Toby hard because he was someone she trusted. Despite their messed up past she thought he was someone she could trust.
4. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
Tybalt was an interesting character. The way he is presented kind of hints that he may be more important later in the series. And you know he will come up again as Toby owes him a favor now.
5. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
At the beginning of the book, she stated he did not know about magic. She stated that was why she could tell him she was a fish for 14 years and that was why she was missing. Toby has already stated he was unaware of her changeling status and that’s why she had to give the unbelievable story of having amnesia for why she was gone all those years. Though you bring up a good point of how he never noticed her glamour breaking. Maybe he was a deep sleeper and he just always asleep when the dawn came up or maybe she would wipe his memory.
6. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
So this book sucked me in and I really enjoyed it. I will definitely be continuing the series and have actually already bought the next two on my Kindle. Unfortunately, I have like three other books I will be reading first before I can get to them. I am hoping to find out more about Tybalt and The Luidaeg because they seem like they may be important. I also want to know if Julie will end up forgiving Toby for the death of Ross now that it comes out that Devin was behind it. I also really want to know if Toby ever has a reunion with her daughter.
Set 3 Chapters 14-2013. We finally meet Lily. What do you think of her? Is she what you expected? I love Lily so far. She matches exactly what I pictured with the outlook to match. She seems to have a “what will be, will be” attitude that I can appreciate considering the other characters.
14. Screw you, Evening!"I shouted. "Screw your duty and your dying and...and your going off and leaving me to deal with this alone!"Why would October say she is doing this alone? For what I can see she has a lot of resources and help available. All she has to do is ask. Why wouldn't she ask for help? She does have a lot of help but she’s the only one who knows the full story. I also think she relied on Evening being there if she needed her like she was after the pond. She lost a friend and I saw this more as Tony mourning.
15. Why did October let the Doppelganger in? Was she really fooled? From what I've read so far I wouldn't have expected her to open the door. I wasn’t surprised. The Doppleganger gave Toby her most desired wish. Toby even admitted that, if Manuel and Dare had been there, she would have made them leave to have time with her daughter. To add onto everything else, Toby was weak from her earlier injuries so I doubt her usual bordering on paranoid cautious nature was working well.
16. I am so confused. There are a lot of new characters and I feel not enough of an explanation as to why they are there. What do you think of the book so far? Do you like the writing style? There are a lot of characters but I’m finding it manageable. I’m enjoying the book so far and am looking forward to the end.
17. Can we trust Devin? Does he really care for October or does he want something in return? Devin always wants something in return and I wouldn’t trust him. I do believe he cares for Toby as much as he can with anyone other than himself but I think he always has an ulterior motive.
18. Will October find Evenings killer in this book? And more important will she survive with all her limps still attached? I hope so because I hate cliffhangers. I don’t mind stories that continue across several books but I need some type of a conclusion within each book or I feel cheated.
Off to read the ending!!
1.October seems to be pretty popular with the men. This section starts with Conner putting the moves on her despite being married. Tybalt also seems to be a potential love interest (which I’m a fan of) and then there’s her husband who we haven’t met yet - I’m leaving Devin off this list for obvious reason. Do you have someone you’d like to see Toby end up with or do you not care about the romance aspect?One hundred percent don't care.
2. I really like The Luidaeg as a character and think she will be important in later books. What did you think of her? Do you think Toby made a mistake by forcing The Luidaeg in her debt? Why do you think she did it?
Probably was worried that if she hadn't, the Luidaeg might have hurt her out of the principle of the thing--and Toby's smart, might have figured she'd need it later with nothing else to trade.
3. Were you surprised it turned out to be Devin? I never liked or trusted him so wasn’t too surprised when he ended up being the bad guy. Why do you think Toby trusted him so much?
I wasn't surprised. It was always going to be someone Toby was close to.
4. I loved it when Toby asked her cats to bring her to their king, Tybalt. Did you have a favorite part or character?
5. One thing I’ve been wondering about is whether or not her husband, Cliff, knew she is a changeling. She can’t control her illusion at the dawn so did he know about it? Does her daughter? If they know she’s a changeling why wouldn’t she have explained what had happened over the last 14 years? Or did I miss something and all this was explained.
They don't know (or at least, she didn't tell them. No bets on future books). Faerie seems to put great importance on hiding to avoid more conflict with the mortal world.
6. How did you like it overall? Do you think you will continue on with the series? If you do continue, what are you hoping to know more about it later books?
Well, I've already read half of the second book. Which, as I said before, isn't as good, but I'm hoping the third will be an upswing again and a bit less filler.
@Alanna the third one is probably my favorite of the early books, although i really liked the second one too [maybe it picks up more towards the end? it's been awhile]. and i just reread the summary for the fourth one and i have literally no recollection of it so i feel like that doesn't bode well *g*also it makes me so happy that nobody really gives a shit about her love life lol #prioritiesinorder
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
A Local Habitation (other topics)Summer Knight (other topics)
Summer Knight (other topics)
A Game of Thrones (other topics)
Throne of Glass (other topics)
1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?
I have always found the fae to be rather cruel, and typically I avoid reading about them -- Tower Teams makes me read all kinds of things. :) I don't know enough about fae lore to know the meaning of the 7 years, but it seems excessive in this case.
2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?
Maybe by the time you get to a quarter fae, your "powers" are so weak as to be unnoticeable. And since neither of them knew October was anything but human, it never really occurred to them something strange could have happened to explain her disappearance.
3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)
The author clearly has cats. That's exactly how the relationship works.
4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?
I think the Fae are pretty limited in their ability to truly care about anyone other than themselves, so I imagine that's pretty typical of all of them. I think October gives off that vibe since she's had to deal with them so much growing up. I think the relationship between October and Evening would have been interesting to watch.
5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?
I'm still figuring her out, but I like her. I like that she doesn't jump when the Fae say jump. My guess is she doesn't push her daughter because she doesn't really want to drag her into her real world and she's too old now to not notice something different about her mother.
6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?
I'm guessing it will all circle back to why she was made a fish, but have no guesses about what will happen yet.