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Sword and Serpent
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8. Mix of elements
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John
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Jun 02, 2018 11:40AM
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To insert the Arthurian elements, Marshall had to twist, both history and the Arthurian legend itself. Thus, for instance, Merlin is moved from the sixth to the first century. He also has to move the forge of Excalibur from the sixth century to the first, further identifying it with the sword in the anvil that made Arthur king (there are two different swords in his legend, although Marshall was not the first to identify them).
The British chieftain Caratacus is said to be the father of Linus, the successor of Peter as Bishop of Rome. In fact this is not Marshall's idea, it is an unhistorical theory defended since the 17th century, first of all in Baronius's Annales Ecclesiastici, Antwerp, 1614.
I think the contamination of Arthurian elements in St.George's legend may have been prompted by Marshall's wish to make the pun by Linus to Linus from Linus, meaning from Mer-linus through Linus to Marcel-linus, prompted by the coincidence that the name of the Pope during the beginning of Diocletian's persecution (Marcellinus) ended in Linus, the same as the first successor of Peter. He then added Merlinus as a third element in the pun.
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T..."
I agree. I thought it was added to foreshadow a trip to Britain to "return" the sword. I expect the next book is about rescuing Menas and the one after that a trip to Britain, that ties in deeper a recrafted Arthurian legend. I would hat to think he rewrote that much history just for a pun.
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You are probably right. I wasn't aware that there were two more books in the series.
Manuel wrote: "John wrote: "I thought it was added to foreshadow a trip to Britain to "return" the sword. I expect the next book is about rescuing Menas and the one after that a trip to Britain, that ties in deep..."This is the key of the issue this is the first book of a trilogy, and the idea was to Jurian went to Britannia, surely he will be with Constancius father of Constantine, although it was ossible my idea. The Idea that Merlin can travel in the time was told by T.H. White, and in the novel "The last legion" Valerio Massimo Manfredi, converdted Romulus Augustus in Uther Pendragon, Arthur`s father.
Taylor R. Marshall wants to do the opposite of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" converted the legend in facts.
About the story of Caractacus would be the Liunus Father, Taylor R. Marshall told to me that he read in the Italian Wikipedia. I read it, and it was true.
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Well, if it's in Wikipedia . . .
;-)
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I can see that the reason to include Excalibur in the plot was to open the way to a continuation.
John wrote: "Fonch wrote: "About the story of Caractacus would be the Liunus Father, Taylor R. Marshall told to me that he read in the Italian Wikipedia. I read it, and it was true. "Well, if it's in Wikipedi..."
Yes in the Italian Wikipedia, but it is possible that it was as Manuel Alfonseca said that Italian Wikipedia was inspired in the Baronius writings, everybody can write in Wikipedia.
Manuel wrote: "Having read the fight, I am confirmed that any old sword would have done. Excalibur is not used at all to vanquish the dragon (a lignum crucis does it), just to cut its head.
I can see that the r..."
For this reason i spoke about the McGuffin and i said that the present, which had more value it was not the most value. I am not surprised that the lignum crucis finished with the Dragon. The Dragon comitted the same mistake. He undervalued the spear and the piece of wood, and of course Excalibur it was an excuse to Jurian went to Britannia, surely he will be with Constancius Chlorine (father of Constantine). I wrote to Alfonseca telling that the wars against Carausius and Alectus was over, but i know that Constancius Chlorine had compaigns against Franks, and Alamans, a part of rejecting Pictus. Rose Marie Sutcliff spoke about this topic in her novels.
Excuseme for my mistake. There isother novel with Arthurian elements. I am reffering to "Silver Chalice", where it is told as Sculptor or Silversmith Basil Sculpt the face of Jesus Christ, and the Twelve apostles in the chalice. The Canadian writer Thomas B. Costain wrote thinking in a prequel of the Arthurian myths. This has in common with The Sword and Serpent. I must recognize that i am a lover of the movie. It is my guilty pleasure i love the Victor Saville`s Paul Newman`s Nathalie Wood`s Virinia Mayo`s and overall Jack Palance`s movie. I love the performance of the last as Simon the sorcerer. I will tell my impression.With this message i want to prove that exist Sword and Sandals novels with Arthurian topics as The Last Legion for example.
I don't think Merlin belongs in this story, confuses wizardry with Christianity.
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I tend to agree, and there were elements in the story, Menas' (I think it was him) always knowing and his apparent bi-location, that add to that same potential confusion.
John wrote: "Jill wrote: "I don't think Merlin belongs in this story, confuses wizardry with Christianity."I tend to agree, and there were elements in the story, Menas' (I think it was him) always knowing and..."
It is a bit strange, but i want to remind that in the twenty century the Father Pio Pietralcina had this gift. Besides Saint Nicholas is a very miracolous, besides he was one of the few saintas, who avoid the persecution. About magic, and christianity i would like to know your opinión of J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and J.K. Rowling that they employ wizards in these novels and nobody deny that the two authors were authentic christians. Even we can add to the list G.K. Chesterton, and Robert Hugh Benson.
I don't object to the reality of bilocation, though I don't recall that it was attributed to St. Nicholas. I just didn't think it was necessary or added anything to the plot of this novel.
I was going to ask whether bilocation was attributed to Saint Nicholas, or it's just a reference to Santa Claus being at many homes in one night.The scene where he provides the dowry to 3 sisters is one of the traditions about him.
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I also thought this :-)
In my opinion is much better give to the character more strength. This scene remind to me when Saint Claus gave powerful presents to the Pevensies in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Not all the presents it will be dresses, and oranges. It is perfect in my opinion that he has powerful presents as the piece of the Vera Cross. One of the things that i like more of the novel it was that Jurian defeated the Dragon with the Saint Nikolaos`s pesent, and not with Excalibur.
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I tend to agree, and there were elements in the story, Menas' (I think it was him) alway..."
Fair point. I think it is in part the difference that this is presented as historical fiction, at least in major part, and these elements aren't (at least not yet) woven into the story in a way that feels authentic.
If you have not read the entire Trilogy, I would hold off on commenting on the sword's origin via Mer-Linus > Pope Linus. It becomes rather important as the story continues.Merlinus appears in full color in Book 3 Storm of Fire and Blood. I believe that episode will clear up your concerns and confusions (but perhaps provoke others).
Taylor wrote: "If you have not read the entire Trilogy, I would hold off on commenting on the sword's origin via Mer-Linus > Pope Linus. It becomes rather important as the story continues.Merlinus appears in fu..."
Can Merlinus travel in thetime how in the T.H. White`s novel? The T.H. White`s books inspired the Disney movie The Sword in the Stone. The first part of the Arthurian Cycle Camelot.
Valerio Massimo Manfredi in his novel "The las legion" converted the last roman emperor Romulus Augustus in Uther. The Arthur`s father.
The Arthurian elements--especially those centered around Glastonbury and the Tor--are not uncommon in historical fiction about the Romans and their occupation of Britain. I'm currently reading a novel about Glastonbury and it begins with Joseph of Arimathea's finding a home in Britain with his family to escape persecution. He converts many of the Druids and then his people join the Brits in fighting off the Romans. I found the episode of Jurian and Constantinus in the Tor fascinating.
Madeleine wrote: "The Arthurian elements--especially those centered around Glastonbury and the Tor--are not uncommon in historical fiction about the Romans and their occupation of Britain. I'm currently reading a no..."But it is the third part, and we have not read it :-(. Curiously i am reading the "Silver Chalice" but in the novel Joseph Arimathea is too old, and he will not be able to Britain. I thought that in the Britaian part will appear Saint Alban (a Saint he was martyerized by Diocletianus).
Thank you Taylor I look forward to reading the other two. I didn’t mind the Merlin tie in. However the discussion of St. Nicholas bilocating has me wondering too. Was he known to bilocate?
