Rutherfurd Edward, Sarum: The Novel of England, Informal Buddy Read, Start date 4 June 2018

[Victoria]

I finished The Founding and phew that was a long chapter. The good thing about it though was that you followed the families through an entire generation and I felt as though I was finally connecting with some characters.
(view spoiler)[ Osmund in particular was well drawn out and I liked how Rutherford described his long life through the 7 deadly sins. Although I could have lived without the lust portion.
There's also the continued feud over land between Willam eta Brigge's family and the Shockley's. Well, it's more of an animosity on William's sign, I think the Shockley's have mostly forgotten it. I just think it's fascinating and insane how there are family's who hold grudges towards each over countless generations. And I'm really interested to see how this grudge plays later on. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Victoria wrote: "I finished The Founding and phew that was a long chapter. The good thing about it though was that you followed the families through an entire generation and I felt as though I was finally connectin..."

I've got that chapter up next. Will get to it probably this weekend. I've also been feeling the disconnection between the generations. Each chapter is nearly like a separate novella.

[Victoria]

I think the Castle, Founding, and Death chapters are more connected than the others. There's still a big gap in time and you're obviously dealing with different characters, but the families are more easily identifiable and their are certain conflicts and other plot points that are carried over for several generations.

My library audiobook is set to expire in two days and there's no way I'll finish it by then! I reserved another copy but I'm 3rd in line :(

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

I'm aiming to finish by the end of the month. Phew, don't know if I'll make it but I'll give it a red hot go.

I've committed to finishing this one as well before the end of Tower Teams. I think I go slightly mad in these challenges.

[Kate S]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Each chapter is nearly like a separate novella. "

I completely agree! It feels like I have read a bunch of books, with only a common setting.

[Kate S]

Victoria wrote: "I think the Castle, Founding, and Death chapters are more connected than the others. There's still a big gap in time and you're obviously dealing with different characters, but the families are mor..."

This is really good news! I am about halfway through the Founding chapter, and can see the carryover from the Castle. It is nice to hear that there will be a large section of familiarity here in the middle of the tome.

[Kate S]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "I'm aiming to finish by the end of the month. Phew, don't know if I'll make it but I'll give it a red hot go.

I've committed to finishing this one as well ..."

I, too, am hoping to finish this soon. I am not committing to another Rutherford book, but I do have my eyes set on The Eye of the World for this TT cycle.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Victoria wrote: "My library audiobook is set to expire in two days and there's no way I'll finish it by then! I reserved another copy but I'm 3rd in line :( ..."

All good. I'm well behind you guys as I've had to pause it to start another BR. So maybe when you get your book I'll be up to where you are now ;)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "I've committed to finishing this one The Rebels of Ireland (The Dublin Saga, #2) by Edward Rutherfurd as well before the end of Tower Teams. I think I go slightly mad in these challenges...."


^hands up^ guilty!
I have 5 books on the go at the moment. two are over 1000 pages. and the other 3 are all over 500. What was I thinking?!! :o

[Sophie, The other one]

Wow Karen! Definitely going for the big book points!

That's such a pain Victoria. Hopefully they'll all read it quickly. I'm waiting for my library's copy so I can read it during the day, rather than a third of a chapter a night.

Just finished Twilight and managed about 6 pages of the next chapter. Hearing about their laws was interesting. I'm looking forward to recognising more of the characters/families

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Twilight and The Two Rivers

Out of these two I enjoyed the Two Rivers more. Maybe because I love the Vikings TV show so it kind of made sense and I could see it in my minds eye.
That scene with (view spoiler)[ the blood eagle. Ew! I remember they did that in the TV show, but the book version was so much worse. Probably because I can't close my eyes when reading. LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "The Two Rivers , now we get Vikings!

I found this an interesting chapter, know a lot more about Vikings these days from the TV show. Well, the glam, hot men version anyway, LOL) It was a nice cha..."

haha
Glad I'm not the only one thinking of that show!
Oh yes, Aelfgifu was amazing!!

[Victoria]

My library stole back my audiobook soon after I started the New World :(
(view spoiler)[ I was so upset when the Shockley's lost the farm in Death - those Wilson's are evil! And boy can they hold a grudge!

Also, forget exactly when it was first mentioned, but I like how Rutherford gradually introduced surnames into the novel. (hide spoiler)]

I'm #3 on 2 copies at my library, which isn't terrible. And I probably wouldn't have time for it anyway once the next round of quidditch starts. So, fingers crossed it's available by the time quidditch ends. If not, I might just use one of my audible credits.

Meanwhile, I think I'll get a head start listening to my next doorstopper - Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Oh that’s one of my favourite books Victoria. I’ve read it twice and actually the TV adaptation was pretty good too!

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

The Castle

I'm glad to read your comments that this chapter connects with the next few because I felt a bit ripped off at the end. lol
(view spoiler)[ I didn't think he would be hanged, I though they would go off into the sunset to have a family and that family would be followed into the next chapter :(

It is so hard to imagine being killed for killing a deer isn't it? I guess the official was just waiting for him as he likes his bribes
(hide spoiler)]

[Victoria]

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "The Castle

I'm glad to read your comments that this chapter connects with the next few because I felt a bit ripped off at the end. lol
..."

Well, you might still be a bit disappointed since it's more of a loose connection... (view spoiler)[The biggest connection is that the animosity between William and the Shockley's and Masons carries down several generations and really carries the plot - making it feel like the chapters are part of one novel and not just a ton of novellas like the previous chapters felt. And the connections are more significant in the subsequent chapters since there's less of a time jump between them - at least from what I've read so far.

And I was so pissed at the end of that chapter! If only the wife had kept her mouth shut! (hide spoiler)]

[Victoria]

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Oh that’s one of my favourite books Victoria. I’ve read it twice and actually the TV adaptation was pretty good too!"

I read a few hundred chapters of it last year (was still no where near finished lol) but had to set it aside cause challenges got in the way. But I'm excited to start over and actually finish it this time around! And I love that TT gives extra points for longer books, I never have time to read them during other challenges

And if you've read a 1000 pages book twice than it most be good!

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Victoria wrote: "Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Well, you might still be a bit disappointed since it's more of a loose connection... ..."

I'm about halfway through the next chapter and I see what you mean. I like that there is that connection though. And the fact that so many of them have the same names through the generations !

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Victoria wrote: "Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Oh that’s one of my favourite books Victoria. I’ve read it twice and actually the TV adaptation was pretty good too!"

I read a few hundred chapters of it last year (was still no w..."

The first time I read it was around 2006. And, like you, I read a bit. Put it aside. and months and months later finally picked it up again!
Then I re-read in 2015 for a buddy read (probably for tower teams!). It isn't often I re-read books, let alone ones of that size! But I really loved it on the re-read too

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

The Founding (view spoiler)[ All the details about building the Cathedral really reminded me of Ken Follett's The Pillars of the Earth. Checked the publishing dates, this book was actually published two years before. (hide spoiler)]

The Black Death: (view spoiler)[ The ongoing feuds and the up and down fortunes of the families because of it seem to be the linking factor between the generations. Where you were in the social structure seems to be the basis of everything in this time period. I'd read somewhere else how The Black Death was a critical juncture in the moving forward of civilisation in Europe.This chapter re-enforced this . (hide spoiler)]

Next chapter seems to be The War of the Roses. Yay.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Victoria wrote: "I finished The Founding and phew that was a long chapter. The good thing about it though was that you followed the families through an entire generation and I felt as though I was finally connectin..."

The Founding

Yes, that was a long chapter!!! I agree that the framing of Osmon's life through the 7 deadly sins was well done. The lust... well...(view spoiler)[ hard to read seeing it was a bit on the side of paedophilia! Although I guess they did get married at 12/13 back then. (hide spoiler)]
The grudge between those two families is interesting. I wonder at what point everyone forgets why they had it to begin with

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "The Founding [spoilers removed]

."

Oh yes! I hadn't thought of Ken Follett. Good pick up

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Over half way through. Yay!
Next up is "The Death"

Where's everyone else up to?

[Sophie, The other one]

Just picked this back up after a few days off. Finished the castle and about to start the founding. At nearly 200 pages it seems like a big undertaking!

I fully understand everyone's frustration with the end of the castle chapter! Just stay quiet!

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Finished another two chapters..The Rose and A Journey from Sarum.

To be honest, I am finding this a bit tedious. Such a lot of historically important things happened in England at this time and Rutherfurd is concentrating on the petty squabbles between families. As he mentioned (view spoiler)[ The people in Sarum didn't care what was happening between the warring families of Lancaster and York.. maybe not but their everyday life is not as interesting! (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

PS - One thing I did think was kind of cool was another revelation of the saying (view spoiler)[ Chalk and Cheese. Who'd have thought.. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I'm still slowly plodding away. I do find it difficult to engage with at times. I think it reminds me a bit of Russka: The Novel of Russia where it felt more like facts thrown about and very separate chapters rather than a family saga through the ages.
I will certainly finish by the end of the month, but I have a couple of books I need to finish this week and they are shorter and so get priority ;)

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Yes, plodding away does describe it well, Karen. I would make the same comparison to Russka as well.

[Sophie, The other one]

This one does feel v ploddy some how. Just got my eCopy from the library so hopefully will make better progress now

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I think if I’d been able to get the audio easily I would have done it by now. Just need to get some chunks in over the next week or so :)

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

New World -

Found this chapter a lot more interesting - the impact of the changing religions of the Tudor monarchs on the people of Sarum. I'd often when reading Tudor themed books thought about this previously, the revolving door of Catholics vs Protestants. And how the average person handled it.

[Sophie, The other one]

I'm enjoying this more now I'm reading it in larger chunks closer together. It's giving a chance for the family threads to flow a bit better.

Have got through from the founding to journey from Sarum (about 25% of the book) in 2 days after it took me a month to get to the founding.

I can see why you were reminded of Pillars of the earth, Lisa

[Kate S]

I, too, saw the similarities between The Founding chapter and Follett's book.

I have finished this book and am unsure how to rate it. I feel like I read 6 different novels (and a handful of novellas) rather than a single title. There were a lot of sections I enjoyed, but did not find it as cohesive as I would have liked.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "

The Black Death: [spoilers removed]
I'd read somewhere else how The Black Death was a critical juncture in the moving forward of civilisation in Europe.This chapter re-enforced this."

ah. so true

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

The Death
This was an interesting chapter from the historical aspect, but also the characters. I really enjoyed Agnes' character!
One thing about this book though is that (view spoiler)[ you get invested in characters like Agnes, and then he just jumps forward in time and says something like "the later plague that took Agnes"... and just like that she is dead. (hide spoiler)]
So although I haven't finished the book (I'm only at 65%!), I can see what you mean Kate S about it feeling like a bunch of novellas.

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Yes, there is a definitely a lot disconnect going on with the earlier sections of this book although it does improve once it gets past the Middle Ages.

Just finished The Unrest and it was the best chapter so far. Intense sibling rivalry underpinned by Cromwell's England and (view spoiler)[ I'm so glad that Samuel did the right thing and came through for Margaret and nasty Obadiah didn't win the day. (hide spoiler)]

I totally agree with you Kate S, I know it's going to be difficult to rate this book. 3 sounds too low because obviously it's an epic but I think the first section dragged too long. He should have concentrated more on the last 1000 years instead of the 60,000 BC. Cavemen and nomadic tribesmen just aren't that interesting!

On the home stretch now..

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Getting towards the end now -

Boney .... Memories of Yr 11 Modern History class... and more recently Poldark. Always enjoy reading about this time.

[Sophie, The other one]

It definitely reads like a series of novellas. I feel like half the families have faded into the background as well (currently reading the Calm which is about the American war of independence).

I think it'll end up 3*, I've enjoyed parts of it, will read more by this author but probably won't reread this.

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Finished... wow, was that an epic at 1376 MMPB pages and smallish print.

I really enjoyed the final chapters, they tied up the different family groups more cohesively than the first part of the book. One thing that struck me by the end was the highlighting of the strong women from each part of history and how they had to deal with the patriarchy limiting them in different ways. That was well done I thought.

Overall not my favourite Rutherfurd, it was his first epic though and he definitely has refined and improved on linking the stories with further books. I'm going to give it a 3.5-4 stars.

[Sophie, The other one]

I've just finished as well.

I definitely agree that he refines his style in later books and the family story threads get stronger and I think the history lesson chunks get smaller/better woven into the story.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Well done Lisa and Sophie! I’m still plodding along 😉

[Kate S]

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) wrote: "Finished... wow, was that an epic at 1376 MMPB pages and smallish print.

I really enjoyed the final chapters, they tied up the different family groups more cohesively than the first part of the b..."

I did find at the end there was some more cohesiveness. Overall, I found the book more disjointed than I would have liked. I am looking forward to reading several others staring at me from my physical bookshelves.

[Kate S]

Sophie wrote: "I definitely agree that he refines his style in later books and the family story threads get stronger and I think the history lesson chunks get smaller/better woven into the story."

Well said.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I finally finished!
So glad this was a buddy read otherwise I may never have gotten there.
I agree with the above comments - it was like a series of novellas and I think his later books are better

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Congratulations Karen... you made it.

Yes, It seems we all agree it was a bit of slogfest in parts. I think I only one left of his books to read now before the new China one is out in 2019.

. Maybe next year's TT, LOL.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lol! Sounds like a plan

[Victoria]

Congrats to those who've finished!

I received another copy from my library and having finally finished Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell I'm free to get back to this!

I know we're no longer getting BR points, but figured I'd comment here a few times while I try to finish. The one benefit of the novella-like format was that it was easy to pick up again after a month without forgetting the plot. I've just started Boney so hopefully it won't take me long to finish!

[Sophie, The other one]

V true! Makes the gap a bit easier to deal with

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Good luck Victoria!

[Victoria]

I'm done! I'm actually surprised how quickly I got through the rest of it, but my library loan was about to expire again so I had to rush!

I liked it, but didn't find most chapters to be very engaging. Like most I had a problem with it reading like a series of novellas. Although, I think I liked the early history parts a bit more than you all - although those chapters could have been shorter.

So, not a favorite, but I'm definitely interested in reading more of his books.

And forgot to mention this before, but I took a short trip to Stonehenge, Old Sarum, and Salisbury Cathedral. I had a fun day trip out there, made more exciting by the fact that I was in the midst of reading this book when I went. In fact, I think reading this made me enjoy Stonehenge and Old Sarum a lot more than I would have otherwise. If I hadn't been reading it I'm sure I would have looked at it and simply thought "well there's a old pile of rocks" and moved on.