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Intersectional Feminism > TERF/SWERF! Or how I learned to stop worrying and love no-platforming

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message 1: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 227 comments This is about the no-platforming and violence directed at radical feminists.


FTA: I can’t remember the exact words, who said it or when, but the general message was: courage isn’t the lack of fear, but doing something even when you’re afraid. I am writing this with lots of fear about a backlash that will almost certainly happen. However, I’ve reached the point where I can’t stay silent any longer and need to muster whatever courage I can and do what I think is right, regardless of the cost.


http://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/0...


message 2: by nil (new)

nil (nilnil) I am a bit perplexed as to what your purpose is behind creating this thread? Is this something that you are trying to promote? Are you interested in starting a discussion on the topic? Do you have thoughts that you want to share along with this article?

Ultimately I found this article to be radically violent and TERF/SWERF apologist platforming, which is strange when couched under the headline "no-platforming". I also take issue with vocal opposition to the inclusion of sex-workers and trans women as being non-violent disagreement.


message 3: by James (new)

James Corprew Malobee wrote: "I am a bit perplexed as to what your purpose is behind creating this thread? Is this something that you are trying to promote? Are you interested in starting a discussion on the topic? Do you have ..."

Couldnt agree more. In my opinion people with those ideologies should not be given a platform to speak. Its counter intuitive to gender equality and inclusiveness.


message 4: by Gerd (new)

Gerd | 428 comments Seeing how we don't get much information about what her views are, it's difficult to judge the decision to remove her.

Also you would think that in these times organizers would first do their homework and then invite/hire a speaker and not the other way around.


message 5: by nil (new)

nil (nilnil) Gerd wrote: "Seeing how we don't get much information about what her views are, it's difficult to judge the decision to remove her.

Also you would think that in these times organizers would first do their hom..."


I feel like I must have missed something in the discussions here based on this comment. (˵¯͒〰¯͒˵)


message 6: by Gerd (new)

Gerd | 428 comments Malobee wrote: "I feel like I must have missed something in the discussions here based on this comment.
..."


It's in the article.
Apparently this is about the removal of a speaker after another group complained about her views, only never get to learn what these views are.


message 7: by nil (new)

nil (nilnil) Gerd wrote: "Malobee wrote: "I feel like I must have missed something in the discussions here based on this comment.
..."

It's in the article.
Apparently this is about the removal of a speaker after another gr..."


Oh I see. I thought you meant this group! haha I was like, "When did the admins decide to have her be a speaker?!"


message 8: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 227 comments I posted this in the sense to show a view (that I share) as to how feminism (female oppression in a very patriarchal society) is being marginalized in a wave of comfortable.

I don't know what people with gender dysphoria and sex workers (read prostituted women) are going through, but I can empathize. But in the same sense I empathize with human females (by evolution) that feel that, and show that, they are being shoved to the side for stating an opinion (no matter if ones feels it is cruel: Arguably there are women that can be bigots to ones with gender dysphoria/sex workers, just as there are transgender and sex worker activists that call for the murder and rape of women) and being no-platformed (Ironically as shown in the above article) because of it.

Debate to find the truth (buried in this group about a person mentioning social structure only limiting to two gender [not sex] boxes when there may be none) is also being no-platformed.

Finding the truth is never meant to be comfortable.


message 9: by nil (new)

nil (nilnil) I find a large portion of your parenthetical and meta-parenthetical statements to be difficult to parse, but I will try to address what you have posted here.

First, I don't think that anyone is being silenced. There are women that loudly vocalize violent rhetoric, and I feel no need to give them a platform just as I would feel no need to give a platform to someone like Milo Yiannopoulis at an LGBTQIA event because he is gay, ignoring his violent rhetoric. I do not agree that I have a responsibility to listen to people who are saying that a whole group of women are not valid and should be excluded from a fight for equality of women. I do not agree that by refusing to give platform to these people I am in any way impeding them from expressing their opinion or being heard. This is very reminiscent to me of arguments made by alt-right and white supremacist groups in their loud cries of "First amendment rights!" without actually acknowledging that no-one owes anyone a platform and refusing to engage is not an impingement on some one's right to free speech. As far as I know, the right to free speech does not give you a right to be heard. Clearly, she is underestimating her reach because here we are.

Finding the truth isn't meant to be any particular way except for truthful. Ironically, it appears to me that trans women and sex workers are facing the very uncomfortable reality of high rates of abuse, murder, systemic prejudice, etc. while SWERFs/TERFs are uncomfortable with push-back and a chronic case of lack self-examination. I honestly feel that most difficulties in this area could be resolved if people in a position of privilege listened to marginalized individuals and groups and then adjust the way they are communicating to better express their ideas. There are a lot of trans women that want to abolish gender constructs as well, as the author claims she would like to do, but do so in a way that doesn't invalidate or continue to alienate people where we are NOW. It is interesting to me that this complaint is a complaint of silence, but really it is a symptom of being unable to acknowledge cis privilege and trying to invalidate a woman's right to choice simultaneously.

All of that said, any attempt to falsely accredit quotations to an individual is wrong, and legally it is slander/libel. I do have problems with any organization or individual refusing to analyze information being presented or to fact check a claim and to promote any individual's statement out of fear of backlash because that person is speaking on behalf of a marginalized person/group. Any instance where this is happening definitely needs to be analyzed and widely discussed. However, it becomes very problematic for me when an argument claiming the above is couched within trans-exclusionary rhetoric. It gives some arguments that I do not feel as being valid a measure of legitimacy. The author clearly has her own intersectional struggles that she is dealing with (indigenous women struggle against violence that is unprecedented) but I do not think that gives her a pass on her self-professed radical positions on gender and prostitution. In the author's personal account, if she was ostracized out of academia for a quote that was not hers, that is most definitely wrong. Do I think that example validates the rest of her positions on gender and prostitution, no. Does this article read as an attempt to do so? To me, yes.

Last, I have not seen any examples where Trans-women are calling for the rape and murder of cis-women. I would be very interested to see any examples of such primarily because as it stands now it just seems like more un-credited inflammatory rhetoric because it supports her own position. Also, as long as they also acknowledge the context of the statement being made. For example, women saying, "Ugh, men should be thrown into the sun," is a statement made to share in catharsis and relate to other women on social media and not an actual call for violence against men. Similarly, I think that any examples of the above could be misconstrued similarly.


message 10: by Jeremy (new)

Jeremy Thompson | 62 comments Feminism is about all people being treated equally regardless of gender. TERFs are the anthisis of that ethos, looking to exclude based upon gander identity and sex. Seems simple to me.


message 11: by Pam (new)

Pam | 1091 comments Mod
commenting to dust off this thread given the book we are reading now.
Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars A Dangerous Trans Girl’s Confabulous Memoir by Kai Cheng Thom

Any additional thoughts?


message 12: by Vern, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Vern Francis (books_baking_brews) | 19 comments Mod
Pam wrote: "commenting to dust off this thread given the book we are reading now.
Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars A Dangerous Trans Girl’s Confabulous Memoir by Kai Cheng Thom

Any additional thoughts?"

Thanks for dusting off this thread Pam!


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