Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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The Reluctant Widow Group Read May 2018 Chapters 11-20
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It's only ever called 'The Hall', in the book, I think, which would be unusual as the only name for a mansion. My guess is that it was properly called 'Carlyon Hall' and that they just called it 'The Hall' because it had the same name as themselves.
Kim-I felt the same way. I also couldn't sleep so I just read the book until I was comfortably tired again.
Jenny, I would guess you are right and it's Carlyon Hall.
I would expect it to be named after the locality, rather than the family. Possibly its postal address will be The Hall, Wisborough - like Vicarages are usually just known as The Vicarage.
I think “the Hall” was a pretty common form of reference for the residence of the squire/lord of the manor, especially if the manor had medieval roots, when the lord of the manor’s house would be the only one with a large central room (hall) for gatherings. There are lots of markers in The Reluctant Widow showing that the Carlyons were old-school lords, deeply embedded in their community, known and looked up to by all the way medieval lords were. It’s part of why Eustace is so offensive to them, because he doesn’t take care of his land and tenants the way a property owner should. What’s relatively unusual—or a sign of changing times—is that John should be taking part in public life in London. Carlyon would be referred to as a “country gentleman” or a “private gentleman” by comparison.
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Surely that's just because he's a younger son? Civil Service, diplomacy or politics all seem to have been acceptable alternatives to the armed forces or the church - they turn up more than once in GH's novels. Think of Matthew Darracott, Kit Fancot, Charles Trevor (only biding his time as Alverstoke's secretary) and even Augustus Fawnhope, whose diplomatic career was fortunately so brief.
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I agree, Jenny, those were all normal paths for younger sons, but among the ones you list, diplomacy and politics were common only among certain families, not for the average run of country gentlemen. Until the late 1700s, there was a sharper divide between families that engaged in public affairs and families that focused on their property. The head of the family might put in an appearance in the House of Lords, but that was the extent of it for most.
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I started to suspect it when I was reading all the debates in Parliament for the year 1800 and the same few names kept cropping up again and again. Then I was reading some political history (can’t remember which, sadly, and my notes are undersourced) that made reference to families that traditionally involved themselves in politics and government and the majority who did not. I hope that’s enough to hang my claim on! :-)
I'm thinking politics themselves just might be an inherited taste; I have one friend whose family has been seriously involved in politics and so is she. I, on the other hand, come from a long line of those who would rather eat worms than hold office. It's an amazing thing to see what runs through families!
I've never been sure if it's a case of inherited gifts or skills, or just that people tend to gravitate to what they're familiar with. I know from the news of families who have had a number of members in politics over the years, but I far more commonly see families in which a lot of the members go in for one particular field - one family might produce a lot of nurses or doctors, another teachers or entrepreneurs or actors - and I think it might often be the case of the younger generation imitating the older generation, or even older siblings.I knew one woman, a teacher, who was from a large family - she mentioned once that all her sisters were nurses. I asked if she had considered that career - she had, but decided partway through nursing school that it wasn't for her! I expect it was the family influence that led her to try nursing, though there was clearly no family pressure to keep her in the training program when she decided she wanted something else.
Absolutely! "Old habits die hard" - and I think it's natural for families to hand down their skills and their mindsets. To my friend's family, politics are important both professionally and in an amateur sense. I think that as job skills are changing drastically and by the hour, we'll probably see fewer family trends, but who knows?!
Karlyne wrote: "Absolutely! "Old habits die hard" - and I think it's natural for families to hand down their skills and their mindsets. To my friend's family, politics are important both professionally and in an a..."Good point - although they often say these days that many of the jobs 25-50 years from now don’t even exist right now! (I’ve been reading and hearing that anyway- probably because our son just graduated college and he’s been involved in his first job search over the last few months!)
And if we stop and think about the jobs available less than a hundred years ago, it's mind-boggling.
My best friend is a accountant, as is her husband. They have two sons, both accountants. One is married to a accountant, and the other is dating -- you guessed it -- a accountant!Back to TRW -- I think a big factor was the importance, even more then than now, of "who you know." Family connections would carry a lot of weight in a political career, so it would be a huge advantage to have that backing and recommendation, and the experience of people who could advise you on how to succeed in such a volatile environment.
I remember in Frederica, how Charles Trevor is always hopeful that Alverstoke will make a speech in the House of Lords, and Alverstoke feels a bit badly that he is completely uninvolved in politics since Charles so clearly wants to be in that world.
The other thing about vocations running in families, is if it is talked about at the dinner table for years, anyone who pays any attention at all will learn things by osmosis. That puts them way ahead of anyone who is trying to break into a field with no real prior knowledge or contacts, even if they have a talent for it. My family is not into politics, but it is very evident in sports and farming.
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That's one thing I really love about Heyer - I feel that way with a lot of her books.