J.D. Robb discussion

Creation in Death (In Death, #25)
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In Death Buddy Reads 2016 - 2021 > Creation In Death - May 2018

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Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Our buddy read continues in May with Creation in Death. All are welcome to read along and join our discussion.

Synopsis/Blurb:
When the body of a young brunette is found in East River Park, artfully positioned and marked by signs of prolonged and painful torture, Lieutenant Eve Dallas is catapulted back to a case nine years earlier. The city was on edge from a killing spree that took the lives of four women in fifteen days, courtesy of a man the media tagged “The Groom”—because he put silver rings on the fingers of his victims.

But this time, it becomes chillingly clear that the killer has made his attack personal. The young woman was employed by Eve’s billionaire husband, Roarke, washed in products from a store Roarke owns, and laid out on a sheet his company manufactures. Chances are, The Groom is working up to the biggest challenge of his illustrious career—abducting a woman who will test his skills and who promises to give him days and days of pleasure before she dies: Eve.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Are you ready for more? I'll start rereading this one in a few days.


Sharon Kallenberger Marzola | 2555 comments I'm ready.


Phrynne | 323 comments Me too. Ready and waiting:)


Charlene (charlenethestickler) | 735 comments I'm in line for it at the library. I should get it in time to read before discussion :-)


message 6: by Susan (new)

Susan (cruelshoes) | 526 comments will start reading shortly


megarg | 8 comments I thought this one of top "in Death" books, So I am very happy to reread it. The problem with the JD ROBB books is I can't put them down and now that I've begun. my day is shot!


Jonetta (ejaygirl) | 13751 comments Mod
Yep! Count on it.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
megarg wrote: "I thought this one of top "in Death" books, So I am very happy to reread it. The problem with the JD ROBB books is I can't put them down and now that I've begun. my day is shot!"

So addictive, right?! lol I'm starting my reread. Always a pleasure to be back in this world.


Lauren (laurenjberman) | 993 comments I've also started - so far, so good!


message 11: by Mara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mara Pemberton (marapem) | 633 comments I read CREATION IN DEATH some years ago. It will be great to listen to it when I finish listening to the book I’m listening to currently.


Sheri Morell (smorell22) | 2165 comments I have started this


Lisa - (Aussie Girl) | 600 comments I'll be reading this month too.


Barbara "Cookie" Serfaty Williams (goodreadscomcookiew1801) | 1384 comments Just finished. Cannot wait for the open discussion.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Only 4 more days! :)


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments I'm getting the audio on this one and should start in a couple days. Have one more audio to finish before starting this one.


Lauren (laurenjberman) | 993 comments Finished and enjoyed it overall, but (and I don't believe I'm actually going to say this) - I might be getting burned out on serial killers!


Phrynne | 323 comments Finished and loved every single minute of it! One of my favourites:)


message 19: by Mdy (new)

Mdy | 212 comments I'm listening and am about 3/4 of the way through. Looking forward to the discussion.


message 20: by Eve (new) - rated it 3 stars

Eve (everf) | 90 comments I haven't read Creation in Death before, mainly because its one of those serial killer variety. But as CiD is this month's book, then I got it and started it.
Have to admit that I'm also a little burned out on serial killers...especially when the reader has to read how the killer enjoys torturing and killing his victims. Its creepy and disgusting methink. Hope there won't be too detailed descriptions.


Charlene (charlenethestickler) | 735 comments I'm still on the hold list for this one; I should get it soon, but not by tomorrow. Doggone. Will try to catch up on discussion as soon as I get the book. At least they're usually short enough for a fast read.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Today's the day!! Open discussions on Creation In Death start today. Feel free to share your thoughts freely.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
So -How did this one play out for everyone? Share your thoughts! What worked? What didn't? What do you consider the defining moment of this book?


message 24: by Susan (new)

Susan (cruelshoes) | 526 comments right off the bat I loved the first scene with Eve and Roarke watching the movie. One forgets that they don't usually do normal every day things like we poor folk. I thought it was great when he put his hand in to grab popcorn and then wiped the butter down her face then grabs her ass to wipe the rest of the butter off. It was just so normal. The moment that broke me was when Finney started yelling at Eve that she did not include him on the details of the new theory she came up. That gutted me. I am so glad they worked it out as only Eve and Finney can do.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
I enjoyed the movie scene also, Susan. And agree that it's good to see Eve & Roarke indulging in the things that most couples take for normal.


message 26: by Sandra (last edited May 08, 2018 02:16PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you all think...was he justified? Should Eve have taken the time to see him first before presenting it to the team? Was Feeney out of line?


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Do you feel the descriptive scenes of the murders are too descriptive? What purpose do they serve?


message 28: by Sandra (last edited May 08, 2018 02:21PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Do you think they underestimated this killer? All the technology used to protect Eve in the end turned out to be useless inside his house. What are your thoughts on the way this went down?


message 29: by Sandra (last edited May 08, 2018 02:25PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve crossed toward the end while they were interviewing "Bob" - when she asked Roarke to make every trace of the killer's right to end his life documentation papers disappear? Does it seem to be getting easier for Eve to cross those lines in order to seek the justice she believes a victim deserves? Do you think she has the right to make that distinction? How do you feel about the way this played out?


Linda | 65 comments Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you all think...was he justified? Should Eve have taken the time to see him first before presenting it to the team? Was Feeney out of line?

No - I don't think he was justified - she offered him the lead at the start when the team was formed and he gave way to her then. He knows what she is, he has worked with her for many years and he would have done exactly the same thing if he had been in her shoes. She was in charge of the team, she was the one making the decisions, she didn't have time to pander to his sensibilities and she was informing him at the same time she informed the rest of the team. That is the responsibility of command.


Linda | 65 comments Do you feel the descriptive scenes of the murders are too descriptive? What purpose do they serve?

Some times it feels like they are - but - the story line can demand that the scene be that graphic, that confronting. In this case the mindset of the killer is bound to that ritual of torture and it had to be shown to give the greatest understanding of the murderer as well as the emotional impact on the team investigating. I don't think the reader could understand either aspect without these scenes being in place.


Linda | 65 comments Do you think they underestimated this killer? All the technology used to protect Eve in the end turned out to be useless inside his house. What are your thoughts on the way this went down?

Hmm, I don't think underestimate is the right word. I think there was some very basic mistakes made. For example as in the bug in her vehicle. With all Roarke's tech savviness - why wasn't it checked and I would think that all the vehicles garaged in Roarke's properties would be scanned as part of his basic security. I know they had their own bug there - but - I would have thought that the interference between the 2 signals would occur no matter how far away from the base the vehicle was. (although it wasn't explained if the bug used was one of Roarkes or the NYPSD ones)

In a lot of ways it felt more like this part of the plotline than a logical process in the expected investigative thought pattern.

The other thing to remember is that he had still not been confirmed as the murderer at this point - she was going to meet Mr Klok. It felt off, but they wouldn't know for sure if this was the guy. Eve didn't know until she was face to face with him and as her transmitters were scrambled she didn't get the warning that everything was blocked.


Linda | 65 comments Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve crossed toward the end while they were interviewing "Bob" - when she asked Roarke to make every trace of the killer's right to end his life documentation papers disappear? Does it seem to be getting easier for Eve to cross those lines in order to seek the justice she believes a victim deserves? Do you think she has the right to make that distinction? How do you feel about the way this played out?

No, I don't think it was easier to cross those lines. I think, in this case, she had promised justice to Ariel and the other victims and that she felt the only way to get that justice this time was to wipe the out that the murderer had worked out for himself.

Anyone who has worked in a system that is bound by rules (as most government is) knows that rules (and laws) are not black and white, that there is a huge amount of grey open to interpretation in many ways. (It's what keeps our legal system well occupied.) I think in this instance justice was the overiding factor, even more than the 'rules'.
Eve didn't have the right, legally, to ask what she asked but morally I think she had every right.


Charlene (charlenev) | 289 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you all think...was he justified? Should ..."

No, I don't think he was justified...and his apology later on shows that he didn't think so either. This was such a personal case for both Feeney and Eve, the stress got to them both and it showed.


Barbara "Cookie" Serfaty Williams (goodreadscomcookiew1801) | 1384 comments No, I thing Eve still has a hard time crossing the line but in this case not to let him from killing him self would me wrong. He kill and tortured a lot of women and to get off easy would be a miscarriage of justice he should suffer as long as he made his victim suffered.


message 36: by Mdy (new)

Mdy | 212 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve crossed toward the end while they we..."

It is an interesting issue. One thing that comes into it I think is to consider what guidelines/"laws" surround getting 'permission' to self-terminate with 'official medical/legal' support -- surely there would be something that says a criminal wouldn't have access to this just to make it easier for him/herself. I think "The Bad Guy" was trying to get around the consequences for what he did and Eve was smarter/quicker. I don't think it is easier for Eve to cross the line.

I have to say, it's always a hoot when JD Robb creates an unexpected or surprise ending.


message 37: by Eve (last edited May 09, 2018 11:23PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Eve (everf) | 90 comments I just finished Creation in Death and even though some of it dragged for me, I liked the climactic ending to the serial killer plotline. Considering what horrors all his numerous victims had to suffer, the way they were tortured for hours and days...self-termination would have been too unfair, easy and quick way out for someone like him. Eve Dallas realized it and blocked his way out in the only way she could. She did it for all those victims and for their families. If she had to bend the rules...well, sometimes the laws don't work the way they should work.
At least now the killer has time to think over his actions and perhaps towards the end he will suffer like his victims did and just like the families of the victims still have to suffer by the loss of their loved ones...

I really liked the very end when Eve and Roarke are over-exhausted and stumble home. And then Summerset says "...And now that the children are home.." So sweet and made me smile. Perfect ending.


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "So -How did this one play out for everyone? Share your thoughts! What worked? What didn't? What do you consider the defining moment of this book?"

I listed to the audio for this book and I got chills when Eve and Roarke were together acting like a "normal" couple watching a movie and teasing each other. The scene that broke me also was Feeney ripping Eve apart. I actually started to cry. I was so happy when they made up...


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you all think...was he justified? Should ..."

I understood why Feeney lost it but I do believe that he shouldn't have. Eve was the primary and should be able to conduct the investigation as she wanted/needed to.


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Do you think they underestimated this killer? All the technology used to protect Eve in the end turned out to be useless inside his house. What are your thoughts on the way this went down?"

I think this killer was underestimated all along. Even going back to the past. I feel it was important to show how he was so difficult to figure out so that it didn't look like they should have caught him previously.


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve crossed toward the end while they we..."

Actually, I have a hard time with this one. It would be very difficult to be in Eve's position and do the legal thing. Legally, she shouldn't have done this. But he outwitted the legal system and so I felt she was just trying to do the "right" thing.


Lauren (laurenjberman) | 993 comments Eve wrote: "I really liked the very end when Eve and Roarke are over-exhausted and stumble home. And then Summerset says "...And now that the children are home.." So sweet and made me smile. Perfect ending.

Yes, I liked that too!


Lauren (laurenjberman) | 993 comments One of the things that interested me in this installment was the Urban Wars. I realized that there have been very few details on the causes, locations, dates, etc. I hope these will be forthcoming in later books.


Sharon Kallenberger Marzola | 2555 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you all think...was he justified? Should ..."

Feeney wasn't justified but his reaction is understandable. I'm sure it is difficult for any cop to not solve a murder case. It must be worse when a serial killer comes back and starts to kill again. Feeney is beating himself up for missing clues then Eve finds something new. It must be devastating that he didn't think about it the first time around. Like Sheila told Feeney it is easier to go after the ones we love. (not a quote)

Eve doesn't have a problem giving back to others. How many times has she told Peabody or one of her team to back down. She even stands up to Roarke. Feeney hurts more because his approval is so important to her. It is an emotional scene but it sets up the scene with Roarke and Feeney--one of my favorites.


Sandra Hoover (sandrahoover) | 10537 comments Mod
Sharon wrote: "Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Feeney blasts Eve for not going over her new theory with him before presenting it to the team. This was a brutal, heartbreaking scene between them. What do you a..."

Perfectly said, Sharon. I whole-heartedly agree. And in many ways, Feeney is a father-figure to Eve which makes it all more emotional.

Really loved that scene between Roarke & Feeney!


Kirsten  (kmcripn) | 12 comments Eve wrote: "I haven't read Creation in Death before, mainly because its one of those serial killer variety. But as CiD is this month's book, then I got it and started it.
Have to admit that I'm also a little ..."


Eve - are you saying you pick and choose your In Death books and don't read in order? Brave!


Kirsten  (kmcripn) | 12 comments Lauren wrote: "One of the things that interested me in this installment was the Urban Wars. I realized that there have been very few details on the causes, locations, dates, etc. I hope these will be forthcoming ..."

Me too!! I really wish she would write some "companion" books. A history of the Urban Wars, Eve's "marriage rules", maybe a book of Leonardo's fashions.... Just daydreaming!


Kirsten  (kmcripn) | 12 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve crossed toward the end while they we..."

What I like through the series is they sort of end up in the middle. She's more open to things that are just slightly gray and so is he. He's more open to cops and she's more open to crooks.


Karen ♐ (kmk1214) | 779 comments Kirsten wrote: "Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Shades of Gray - Before Roarke, everything was black & white to Eve. Now, she appears to skate just over the line from time to time. So, what about the line Eve ..."

I really like that too, Kirsten. She's starting to see other points of view and isn't quite as rigid in her beliefs.


Sharon Kallenberger Marzola | 2555 comments Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "Do you feel the descriptive scenes of the murders are too descriptive? What purpose do they serve?"

I often read comments in reviews and on blogs that a procedural is too descriptive. It doesn't make sense to me though. There are some truly sick people who are cruel beyond belief. Authors who skim over the details make the events less gruesome and the killer's criminal mind isn't real.

If an author decides to be less descriptive, some events can't be explained. For example, Eve's actions at the end to ensure Bob's jail time. He deserves to pay for his mistakes more than a person who kills in the heat of passion, DUI, etc. Also the Eve/Feeney confrontation. He wouldn't be as possessive or upset. There are many events in the story that would not work as well without understanding the murderer. The details are essential to the story.


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