Apr. 16: Book II. par. 121-130

[Nemo]

The Allegory of the Rea Sea Crossing

125. ... If anyone wishes to clarify the figure, this lays it bare: Those who pass through the mystical water in baptism must put to death in the water the whole phalanx of evil—such as covetousness, unbridled desire, rapacious thinking, the passion of conceit and arrogance, wild impulse, wrath, anger, malice, envy, and all such things. Since the passions naturally pursue our nature, we must put to death in the water both the base movements of the mind and the acts which issue from them.
126. ... Rather we should make a totally new beginning in life after these things, breaking the continuity with evil by a radical change for the better. Thus also he means here that after we have drowned the whole Egyptian person (that is every form of evil) in the saving baptism we emerge alone, dragging along nothing foreign in our subsequent life. This is what we hear through the history, which says that in the same water the enemy and the friend are distinguished by death and life, the enemy being destroyed and the friend given life.

[Ruth]

I'm lagging behind a bit, and just read §129 where he seems to be saying that if you still sin, you have not been properly baptised.

Surely he can't be saying that all baptised persons are always fully controlling their passions?

I do think that he is right that sins are like harsh masters, which is really a helpful way of looking at it, because then we see that attempting to live better is something that is liberating, and not done out of fear for God's judgement.

[Kerstin]

Ruth, I think one has to read this in the cultural context. We're in the late 4th century when Gregory wrote this. St. Augustine of Hippo was a contemporary. I recall a footnote in my copy of St. Augustine's Confessions where it was customary to hold off baptism - sometimes until near death - in order to expunge all sins, even if one had been a practicing Christian for some time. So it was fairly common to be baptized in adulthood after one had passed the "passions of youth." It was certainly true for Augustine.
So what I think Gregory is saying, is that if you are going to be baptized and leave your sinful (=pagan) life behind, you have to be serious about it.

[Ruth]

Yes, of course! Thanks for putting it in perspective.
It's interesting to ponder how also the Church as a whole goes through a sort of learning process over time. Where in the beginning they really had to sort out what exactly happens at baptism, how serious is it if you sin afterwards, etc.

I think these questions are also questions that we go through individually (at least I do!) but it's good to remember that we have a very long record of historical discussions between people who first started thinking about these topics.

In my memory Augustine didn't agree with the practice of putting off baptism, but he was just raised in that culture. When he converted he really looked forward to his baptism, and prepared really well. I thought that was really the most moving part of the Confessions. And also the part that deals with the time after his baptism. The innocence and joy was just wonderful.

PS. Nice to see you here again! I was a bit worried, all of a sudden everyone seems to have stopped contributing. Just hope that nothing is amiss.

[Kerstin]

Nothing amiss from my side, just busy. :)