Language Peeves

[Sarah]

I say "soffen." I would laugh at a commercial for a fabric sofTener.

[Ruth]

sofTen?? Who (besides you) says sofTen, David?

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

It's soffen in NZ too....

[Ken, Moderator]

Silent T "soffen" here. Though I pronounce the "T" in "often" because "offen" sounds like some hillbilly threatening a trespasser. "Get offen my propa'ty before I done blow ya ta Kingdom Come!"

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

So what are you oft in?

[Ken, Moderator]

I went to the expert. The Good Wyfe says I sometimes pronounce it and sometimes don't. How's that for straddling (double "d" sound)?

[Savvy]

I offen use soffener in my WA(R)SH!

How many people have you heard say warsh for wash?
I grew up saying it that way(common in S. Calif) and learned after I moved to Wa(r)shington State that I did it...I don't think I ever even heard it myself until people corrected me!

[Carol]

I thought warsh was from the mid-west.

[Ruth]

carol (akittykat) wrote: "I thought warsh was from the mid-west."

So did I. I've lived in So Cal all my life and don't remember ever hearing it here.

[Carol]

I don't recall saying warsh in Ohio where I was born, but apparently they do.

[Sarah]

I like "idears," too.
Such lovable gadgets.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

Wots wrong with wosh?

[Ken, Moderator]

Never, ever heard "warsh." But "idears" lope and play in the New England forests regularly.

[Ben]

My mother-in-law says warsh, and it annoys my wife to no end. She's from Missouri, so I guess that's more evidence for it being a midwest thing, I guess.

[Ken, Moderator]

The Show Me the Warsh State.

[David]

Yer all correct. Wot wuz I thinkin'?

[David]

"Flaunt," meaning to display in a prideful, mocking manner, instead of "flout," meaning to disobey openly, to defy.

Grrrr.

[Ruth]

The OC Register, which I can barely bring myself to read, posted an article yesterday on its website yesterday, where it was abundantly clear that they don't know the difference between "device" and "devise."

[Ken, Moderator]

Similar to the "advice" vs. "advise" debacle...

[Cecily]

I don't understand the problem people have with advice/advise and device/devise because they're pronounced differently.

The pitfall for those in Britain, is that there is a similar noun/verb spelling distinction in words that have the same pronunciation, such as practice/practise and licence/license.

[Lilyane]

It depends on the people doing the pronouncing,,,,,,,,,

[Cecily]

I wasn't sure about the US. Certainly in Britain, you hear a distinction, even by those with different regional accents:
-ise rhymes with eyes
-ice rhymes with ice/frozen water

[Lilyane]

Definitely the US - lots of regions and accents, added to misunderstanding of language and grammar, can make for quite a huge variety of error.

[Cecily]

Returning to people DISliking hard "t", whilst I agree in cases such as "often" and "listen", there is also a converse issue: omitting a "t" that SHOULD be pronounced. The glottal stop (typical of "estuary English") is often frowned on in standard British English, e.g. saying "war-er", instead of "water" and "lay-er" instead of "later".

[Ruth]

Ah yes, the glottal stop. The reason I need subtitles in quite a few English movies.

[David]

A 'undred bo'lz a beer awn the wawl,
A 'undred bo'lz a beer . . .

[Carol]

Ruth I am glad I am not the only one. Everyone laughs when I use subtitles for English movies.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

David, that would be 'An 'undred b'olz a beer awn da wawl'!

[David]

Debbie, I sit corrected. Pardon me while I pour another pint!

[Ruth]

carol (akittykat) wrote: "Ruth I am glad I am not the only one. Everyone laughs when I use subtitles for English movies."

We use subtitles for all movies. Amazing how many people mumble as we get older. Of course, the subs are more necessary for some movies than for others.

[Carol]

WHAT! HUH! WHAT DID YOU SAY! We use these a lot in our house. Plus That TV is too loud. :)

[Ken, Moderator]

I wasn't sure about the US. Certainly in Britain, you hear a distinction, even by those with different regional accents:
-ise rhymes with eyes
-ice rhymes with ice/frozen water

Cecily -- In New England, just as in Jolly Olde, it's pronounced that way.

[Ruth]

Of course it sounds different. That doesn't seem to deter the idiots.

The same idiots that pronounce my last name, Bavetta, as Baveeta.

[David]

Rhymes with "Mo-betta," not "Velveeta."

[Ruth]

Bingo, David.

Not to mention the ones who think it's Bavettee.

And this includes my former MIL, who in 16 years could not get her mind around my name.

[Ken, Moderator]

Ruth Bavetta drives a Corvetta.

[David]

Or her fingers around your throat, considering you're still here!

[Ruth]

Or use a Beretta.

[Carol]

Ruth Bavetta used a Beretta on Ne and David and made her escape in a Corvetta, playing a toccata all the way to Mexico.

[David]

I liked her letter, so we met in Quetta, where I asked, "Can we go someplace wetter?" We climbed into her Jetta, climbed a hill and took a header. That's when my face turned redder. The cops turned me loose, asking, "What did you expect, fetters?"

[Scribble]

That was most eloquently elaborated, Ruth

Perhaps already appearing in this thread: the placement of prepositions in phrases. Increasingly, prepositions are placed at the end of the phrase, as opposed to the beginning. Postpositions seem to be all the rage.

The chair on which he sat = the chair he sat on
The group to which she belongs = the group she belongs to
The house in which they live = the house they live in

etc

Drives me ballistic
Ruth wrote: "Maureen, saying them separately does work in the I/me dilemma.

Bill and me went to the market.
Bill went to the market.
I went to the market.
Me went to the market. Ack, no.
ergo
Bill and I..."

[Jana]

I have problem with too many things

then, than - I never know which to use
the, a, an - same thing
I, me - is another one I have problem

[Ken, Moderator]

Then is used for time; than is for comparisons

The is for a specific thing; a, an are for any old thing.

Use an in front of vowel words; a in front of consonant words and the long "u" sound (e.g. a uniform).

I is the subject pronoun; me is the object pronoun.

See how easy? What's your first language, Jana? Mine is Swamp Yankee.

[Carol]

See I learned something also I did not know you use an a in front of a long U.

[Ken, Moderator]

It makes a "y" sound.

[Carol]

I see said the blind lady . I just never thought about any rules for long u sound.

[Jana]

Newengland wrote: "Then is used for time; than is for comparisons
I need to write this down and put it on a board in front of me, thanks.

The is for a specific thing; a, an are for any old thing.

Use an in front of vowel words; a in front of consonant words and the long "u" sound (e.g...."

this part I know. Sometime I do put it in wrong spot in a sentence. (I'm sure I just did it right now too)

[Jana]

Newengland wrote: "Then is used for time; than is for comparisons

The is for a specific thing; a, an are for any old thing.

Use an in front of vowel words; a in front of consonant words and the long "u" sound (e.g...."

my first language is Slovak.

[Jill]

Not sure if this appeared earlier in the thread:

If you could care less, you care.

If you couldn't care less, you really do not care.

And that is one of the peeviest of my peeves.

[Scribble]

Newengland wrote: "The is for a specific thing; a, an are for any old thing.

Use an in front of vowel words; a in front of consonant words and the long "u" sound (e.g uniform)..."

and words which begin with a silent 'h', such as honest, take 'an' as well, eg an hour, not a hour, and when used to modify a noun eg an honest man, not a honest man.