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Sing, Unburied, Sing by Jesmyn Ward -- Discussion
I think because we all think we know what death is. We know we are not in this realm of being. I think she is preparing us for the emotions of dying., from the living point of view and offering an alternative narrative from the dead’s point of view. I really enjoyed this book so much more than Lincoln in the Bardo.
When Leonie experiences her visions of her brother , I was thinking a drug induced hallucination, but as the book progressed and Ward brought in Richie’s aura, the novel took on a different tone for me.
I haven't gulped down a book this quickly in a long time. And, I might not have read it if it wasn't on our list here. Some of the reviews have made it sound so dark that I wasn't sure I wanted to take it on. However, despite its darkness, it felt like such a celebration of life and survival in the end. Like Sherry, I could go back and read it again.Thinking about Jojo's initial words about death, I think that Ward chose to start the book that way because the characters live their lives in close proximity to it. They are hugely vulnerable themselves as black people in a racist community. Jojo's uncle was murdered because of a bet and no one was prosecuted for it. Pop spent all of that time in prison for nothing, just trying to survive. As farmers who eat their own stock, they need to be objective about death as Jojo was learning to be in that first chapter. And, they are at the mercy of the elements in a land that has survived Hurricane Katrina. Btw, I just picked up that last information about Katrina from reviews. I didn't catch that one of the characters lived in one of those houses built after Katrina. Who was it?
The New York Times Book Review and PBS have recently started a book club which you can follow on Facebook. I'm busy enough with books here at CR so I haven't read along with them. However, Sing, Unburied, Sing was their first selection and they did a great interview with Jesmyn Ward using questions from their members. You can get it at the following links on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEpKy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKMh...
I had been intending to read this but I'm passing on it for now as my plate is just too full at present and my in-person book group is scheduled to read her other book Salvage the Bones later in 2018 and so I have put this book to one side for now but am looking forward to reading the discussion.
Sheila wrote: "I had been intending to read this but I'm passing on it for now as my plate is just too full at present and my in-person book group is scheduled to read her other book [book:Salvage the Bones|10846..."Sheila I don’t think this book will disappoint you.
I read this book earlier this year and I don't know if any other could top it for 2018. I found all of the narrative voices so interesting, even when they were flawed, like Leonie and Michael (and Michael's parents!).I've read that some readers have had difficulty with the ghostly presence throughout the book. This posed no problem for me and actually seemed to grow organically from the story and the identity of the family. Jojo's grandmother was known for having some "special power" or something of that ilk and Leonie had her visions apparently aided by drugs. But there was more than that in this book. I see there is no mention of "no spoilers" for this discussion, so perhaps I've said enough about this.
As for death, Jojo is also living in a house with his very ill grandmother and, at 13, is likely old enough to realize that her death is a possibility.
When we start official discussions, you can always assume that there will be spoilers.
Sue what was your thoughts on the visions. I know culturally in areas of the World this blending of Mainstream Religions with Paganism ,if you will ,are common. I found it interesting that Mam , Leoni, Jojo had visions. Mam we could say was on pain meds, Leoni was a meth head, but what about Jojo. He had not experienced hard core drugs, so why was he having them? Why did Richie chose to attach himself to Jojo?
I have always heard that children are closer to God because they haven’t been jaded by external forces. They can see and experience things adults can’t. Which brings me to Kayla. Ward really didn’t establish her character fully, so we have to imagine for ourselves. Kayla to me was more special than Jojo ,Leoni or Mam. I think her life energy or maybe her afterlife energy, was stronger than everyone. I feel she sang all the other spirits to her and she sang them home. This is pure speculation I know. In reality I don’t know how I feel about (ghost) or unrestful souls.
I love the way you put that, Carol. I thought the visions were part of the family heritage, passed down through Mam's side. Perhaps children are more able and open as they are less bound by life's expectations. The scene near the end, in the woods, was spine-tingling for me. The sense of history, all the lost ones from so very long a time needing to be sung home.I don't know when I last read a book that affected me that strongly.
As a side note, I have no difficulty accepting the idea of ghosts/spirits existing along side us in this world. I haven't experienced it but I certainly have experienced unexplainable things...or things not explained by normal rules of science. I have had patients who told me of visits from deceased loved ones, shortly before their own death. I have had those strange deja vu moments that seem so weird. And people who saw me in places I wasn't. I'm one who believes there is much more unexplained than explained in our world and I have no problem with it. In fact I find it very interesting. I also think the world of science has only begun to open up what is available, especially with regard to our brains.
I can’t find the article some weeks back about the science of dying. It was something about another realm after death as we know it. Don’t really know if it was a legitimate study or not. I looked at reviews and many were confused as to who told Richie Mam was not his mother and to leave . I thought it was Given. Then Kayla sang and all the unsettled souls left except for Richie. We find him sitting in a tree in the end, what was he waiting for I wonder?
Another question about River’s killing of Richie. Did he do the right thing or not? Morally probably not , but compassionately maybe so. I think Richie was shocked about how he died.
I agree re River having killed Ritchie. River knew what would happen to Ritchie when he was caught, and what the dogs would do, and he was powerless to stop it. If Ritchie had survived that, River would not have been there to protect him since he was to be released.As for why he stayed, he must have still felt a bond there, perhaps with Jojo, or maybe to watch River living. Maybe eventually he would move on.
Another thought...who was singing? I thought it was all the many injuries singing in the trees. I probably should read this again.
I thought Kayla was singing too. Maybe she would eventually join them in death . I was hoping for a little more fleshing out of Michael. He was like a gnat annoying . Flitting in and out of the picture. At least to me he was. I guess the children were after thoughts to him, he really had no part in their upbringing. Even Leoni couldn’t really depend on him except for a partner in crime.
Would Leoni have been a different person if she had followed her mother’s lead I wonder?
I see my tablet changed a word in my last response but it seems you got the gist of what I was saying. Since you have read the book more recently, I bet you are right about Kayla.Leonie didn't seem to care about her mother's ways at all, did she. A commentary I suppose on what the drug culture does to families and futures . I imagine her brother's death may have contributed to her slide and certainly Michael wasn't a positive influence.
I wonder if your impression of Michael was purposeful... the absent father, the druggie...here he is white, not the stereotypical black young father. But everyone here is lacking something, and Michael seems to have no real family since his parents/father have disowned him. He doesn't seem to really consider the children other than as small trophies, certainly not as his responsibility. He and Leonie are too far gone, I guess, in the drug culture, to truly care for and about the children. And they are so much younger than Jojo in so many ways. It's sad and pathetic to see Leonie try to take care of Kayla when Kayla feels safer with Jojo.
Like Barb, I was hesitant to read this book because I knew there would be so much pain in it. But once I got into it, it really grabbed me. I too am very glad that this book was a CR selection.JoJo's opening thoughts about death probably made me especially apprehensive, but I was so afraid that JoJo, Kayla, or Pop were going to die. Did anyone else feel that way?
These characters were so strongly drawn that I felt I knew them and cared deeply what happened to them. Kayla was so sick. Only JoJo seemed to care, and I wasn’t sure she was going to make it. JoJo's experience with the policeman searching for drugs could well have ended in his death - like so many similar incidents in the news. I remember telling myself, that if someone had to die I hoped it would be Leonie or Michael.
Of course, although these characters survived, there was plenty of death in the book, revolving around Richie and Mam, and all those ghosts hanging around in this life because they had experienced violent deaths.
Leonie and Michael really made me angry, but at the same time I think Ward excelled at showing that they did have a more sympathetic side. Leonie wanted to be a good mother, and sometimes she tried. I did think she loved her mother because she got the supplies ready for Mam’s final passage even though she didn’t want to. After Michael was released from prison, he convinced me that he actually loved Leonie. He wanted his parents to accept her and the children, futile as this hope was. In the final analysis, however, as Sue pointed out above, they were just too consumed by drugs to be effective at any parenting.
This book had a lot of sorrow, but also a lot of love. The bonds between Pop and the grandkids, Pop and Mam, and even Leonie and Mam were very touching.
And now the ghosts :-)I don't believe in ghosts in my world, but I am willing to accept them in an alternate literary world. I did find the ending confusing, however, even after I read it a second time. As Carol and Sue have discussed, Kayla seemed to have especially strong spiritual powers.
Do you think that her singing at the end of the novel gave Richie and the other ghosts peace and allowed them to finally pass over into a more peaceful afterlife?
Ann, very interesting post. I also feared what might happen to Jojo and Kayla and even Pop. That car ride was nerve racking, a tribute to Ward's skill. Would the policeman shoot Jojo? would that dog attack the children? would the drugged out driver crash the car? This book definitely kept me on my toes.As for the ghosts, I did think they were being sung home to peace and that this included spirits from 300 years. I would have to read it again about Kayla's singing. I thought the spirits were singing and may have missed or forgotten some part at the end.
Ann D wrote: "Like Barb, I was hesitant to read this book because I knew there would be so much pain in it. But once I got into it, it really grabbed me. I too am very glad that this book was a CR selection.Jo..."
I was also afraid for Jojo and Kayla. When Leonie took too many drugs, then had to take the charcoal briquettes smashed into powder, that was almost too much. I thought that she would die then, but I didn't want her too. Pop was too old to take care of the children, but Michael would have been worse alone than Leonie and Michael. It's a shame that the only choices were bad, worse, and worst.
Gina wrote: "Ann D wrote: "Like Barb, I was hesitant to read this book because I knew there would be so much pain in it. But once I got into it, it really grabbed me. I too am very glad that this book was a CR ..."At least Pop loved them even though he is too old (I think at times I see these people as being real!) and I hope he will find good people to care for them before he is unable. Sadly, now that his wife has died, he will have more time and energy for the children.
I was hesitant that I could take on the pain of this book as well. Salvage the Bones is beautifully written and unrelentingly brutal. For some reason, Sing Unburied, Sing felt more filled with love and compassion, in spite of all the suffering and racism and drugged induced neglect. I loved the ghosts...they haunted because they needed to reconcile their lives and longings. Richie broke my heart. And clearly he broke River's heart. It reminded me so much of Toni Morrison's Beloved. Killing someone you love because you know the death that awaits them at someone else's hands will be so much more horrendous.
Jane, I haven't read Salvage the Bones, but I do agree with you about the overall positive feeling I was left with at end of this book. It felt as if a weight had lifted when the singing was underway...and in many ways it was, the weight of years and years of brutal deaths, unburied and often unacknowledged. A weight was lifted from me too.
Jane, I loved this book and quickly bought another by the writer. You mentioned it being beautiful and brutal. I'm in total agreement. I had the same feeling reading Toni Morrison's: Beloved. The ghosts were necessary and so well done.
The ghosts reminded me of the ghosts in Lincoln in the Bardo, also trapped between this world and the next. Both books were published in 2017, although George Saunders' BARDO had some dark humor and ghosts with grotesque features, unlike the sympathetic ghosts in Ward's book Ward's ghosts seem to represent the sins of the past and the burdens that history imposes on the present. I agree with you, Sue, that I felt a sense of lightness at the end. I also felt comfortable with the children being in the care of their grandfather, in spite of his age. JoJo was becoming quite sufficient on his own. His parents only made his life much more difficult.
Jane, good observations about Richie. I was relieved that Pop killed him. The torture that awaited him if he had lived was absolutely horrifying.
What do you all think about the kids being hit all the time? Did it show how truly bad their parents were, or was this behavior just as much due to the culture of the place and times? I winced every time JoJo or Kayla got hit
Ann, I wonder how much of the hitting was a part of the lack of self control and irritability which would be part of Leonie and Michael's drug-fueled or drug-lacking behaviors. Leonie, who we knew better, seemed to have some regret for her actions but no ability to control them or to take responsibility for them. She and Michael are reduced to being younger than Jojo in many ways. As for cultural influences, I don't recall Pop hitting the children though I could have forgotten an incident. Poverty does sometimes lead to many problems because of the tensions caused by all of the many needs and wants. So much possible in the background of this novel.
Chapter 3Jojo started out by saying that at 13 he knows what death is,
Now he thinks he knows what his friends mean when they speak of life up north in the Mississippi delta on the way to Parchman.
Poor kid, he has no idea what is coming.
The dangers he faces as a black male in 21st Century USA are beyond his imaginings. A few weeks ago some man in Michigan shot at a boy who was lost on his way to school because the kid knocked on his door to ask directions!
Sue,Good point about the drug addiction influencing the violent behavior. Unfortunately unprovoked violence does biologically reduce stress in the perpetrator ( according to Robert Sapolsky in Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst). Poverty and addiction definitely create a lot of stress.
Joan, recent news events have made me realize just how frightening it is to be a young black male in America.
The violence inherent in the town seems to be the start of both Leonie and Michael’s problems.Imagine being an adolescent in a town where your teenage brother could be murdered and everyone with power would pretend it was “a hunting accident”.
Imagine knowing that your hot-headed cousin had murdered your classmate because the victim dared to excel.
And knowing that your father and uncles covered the whole thing up with a lie.
That could really mess up anybody’s mind, I think.
It seems Michael’s befriending of Leonie was his way of atoning for the crime.
I’m only on Chapter 6 so my view of their relationship may change.
Good observations about the impact of the brother's murder on Micahel, Joan. I got more sympathetic toward Michael as I found out more about him and his history. I wondered if there were any place that Michael and Leonie could go were they could live peacefully as an interracial couple - except that their lives were so consumed with drug addiction that any positive changes were out of reach.What do you all think was the time setting of this novel? Was it contemporary?
I did think of this book as roughly contemporary, say within the past 10 years. Drugs of all kinds have been a scourge for so long. Men have been sent to Parchman for small crimes for decades so this part is almost timeless. White men going there for drugs is probably a newer phenomenon.In some ways the story does seem timeless, and I think it's meant to be so. The spirit world, the gathering of herbs, hark back to older times. The ever-present racism and poverty have existed for longer than anyone wants to admit.
But Man going for her cancer treatment, and the general feel is 21st century to me. The poverty and racism are certainly still with us as we've seen so well over the past year.
Didn’t Leonie mention that Michael was working on the Deep Water Horizon when it blew up and he worked with the men that died - he’d had nightmares afterward, yet another scar on his psyche. That would place it in 2010.
Good catch, Leonie. Definitely recent times.Sue, yes I think that the book is timeless in many ways. West seems intent on showing the grip of the past on the present.
I found this article about Parchman that was interesting, It discusses how Ward used the prison in her novel. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/ins...
I wonder why Leonie doesn’t inspire me to sympathy- as a child she lost a beloved brother under horrific circumstances, was a victim of institutional abuse, fell in love and was loved by Michael but his family refused to acknowledge her and,even more appalling, his father rejected his own grandchildren- her babies.So why is she more maddening than pitiable? Is it because she uses crack?
Would it be different if she was an alcoholic?
Or if she were diagnosed with an identifiable disease?
Is it because she is a negligent mother?
Would I feel differently if she was a father or Jojo’s aunt?
I think for me Leoni inspired a passing sympathy. She was depressed, but she didn’t start out being born depressed. She was a selfish child by nature. The death of her brother and the external hand of society pressing down on her was too much. She had the intelligence , but chose the fork in the road to destruction. I really didn’t like Michael at all. He enabled Leonie and took her away from her family and children into a den of druggies. I was not able to feel any sympathy at all for him. I didn’t hate him , but he was useless. He was wealthy and he preyed on a girl who was poor, black and already in dire straights. To me he was everything her mother and father didn’t want for their daughter. My greatest sympathy laid with the children. I was still rooting for them at the end of the book. It would be interesting to see what Ward would do with Kayla and Jojo.
I feel pretty much the same way, Carol. Leonie didn't seem to truly care about her children. I thought she envied Jojo's bond with Kayla. She tried to force a bond with the children rather than earning it. She was not a constant in their lives...they had learned to depend on their grandparents, not her. All of this comes through the narrative quickly. If I remember correctly, we get Jojo's impression which feeds our own. I read this too long ago now for more specifics.
I’m only at Chapter 9, but we see Leonie and Michael completely differently. As a high school student, Michael felt terrible that his cousin had murdered Given and his family lied about it. Even after he had a steady job and saved money as a skilled tradesman on the Deep Water Horizon, until it blew up.
In flashbacks from before the murder, Given and Leonie seem like average, good kids. She learned some but not all of the plant and mystical lore, etc.
I keep thinking about the main female character in Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Piccoult. How one bullet can change so many things.
I really like Ward’s writing in chapter 9 narrated by Richie - she describes time beautifully, as an ocean. I’m listening to an audiobook so I cannot quote it exactly.
Joan, it has been a few months since I read the book but I am glad you have reminded me of how Michael and Leonie were "before"...before the drugs perhaps or the toxic effects of whatever drove them to the drugs. I imagine that Michael's experience on the oil rig may have led to major problems for him. It would be nice to know them better and how things got so bad, if only for some idea as to whether there might be hope for them in the future.
Chapter 10, poor Michael still hoping that his parents will accept Jojo, Kayla & Leonie“I told them (his folks) because you love me , you have to love them (the kids) because they are part of me”
It’s hard to imagine parents disowning their children, though I have known a few families that fell apart over religious defections.
That was a very painful chapter. I was a bit surprised that Michael and Leonie let it happen in front of the children. In some ways they both seem to be children who still need nurturing themselves.
Could it be that Ward wanted to personalize how prejudice and past wounds pull us apart - and it’s the children who end up harmed. Big Joe didn’t see Leonie, he saw only a generic black drug addict. Leonie looked at Big Joe through memories of past insults, lies, crime and bigotry.Michael was certainly childishly optimistic in believing that seeing the children would soften Big Joe’s heart. Perhaps Ward reminding us that Hope springs eternal ;-)
Sue wrote: "That was a very painful chapter. I was a bit surprised that Michael and Leonie let it happen in front of the children. In some ways they both seem to be children who still need nurturing themselves."Michael seemed to be hoping that THIS TIME, it would be different and his Daddy would finally accept them. Maybe he didn’t expect Big Joe to get violent even though they were a violent family.
Leonie, I think, came from a peaceful family so she didn’t know how to react; she took the kids out to the car as soon as she could.
Someone above commented on a link between poverty and violence but in this story the domestic violence flows from the more affluent Big Joe family
I'm squeaking in here - I just finished listening to this yesterday and really appreciate reading everyone's comments as I felt overwhelmed by the intensity of the book to even gather my thoughts about it to write something coherent! As with many of you, I ended this book feeling optimistic about the future for JoJo and Kayla with Pop's love and support and JoJo's maturity. I do not feel optimistic about Leoni and Michael. Also I find it interesting that no one has mentioned Misty. I think she was an equal bad influence on Leoni as Michael was. They are all caught up in the druggie life. BTW, I think the drug in this book was crystal meth.
I must say that I did not like Ward's writing at first. It felt "overproduced" and for me was sitting on top of the story getting in the way. But at some point I was swept up in it, seeing how the language magnified the story. A feeling I had is that her writing was like singing and that I had to get into the rhythm of it to have the overall appreciation of what Ward was doing. I felt a little bit like Richie at the end who lamented that he couldn't find the key. I kept wondering "what key?!", but then realized that it was the key to the song that would release him. Sorta made me hair stand on end when I understood that.
The spirits and the sight that these people had for them made the book for me. (It helps that I already believe that many people don't want to leave yet after death and hang around. This also reminded me of George Saunder's Bardo, another concept I believe in and felt very palpably in this story.) There were several scenes that had me sobbing as when River told JoJo of how he killed Richie with Richie listening in to see if he could finally be released from this earth once he learned how he died. Given taking Mam with him as both of their spirits left the earth, Leoni realizing that it was the only nice thing she'd ever done for her mother. The scene at the end with all the spirits in the tree singing and wanting release. I'm not actually sure that Kayla was singing, but I remember she said to them "go".
So much to think and feel about this book! My head is still spinning and my heart is still reeling. I'm so glad I stuck with it because I almost abandoned it early on. And grateful for all the comments in this thread!
Joan wrote: "Sue wrote: "That was a very painful chapter. I was a bit surprised that Michael and Leonie let it happen in front of the children. In some ways they both seem to be children who still need nurturin..."How are you liking the audio, Joan? I was going to ask if anyone in the conversation had listened vs. reading in print. I loved the audio and felt it really enhanced my experience. Although to your earlier point, not easy to refer back to comment on a detail :)
Oh yes, I did forget about Misty. Yes she was just as big of an influence as Michael. Does anyone know the statistics for drug use in Mississippi?
Carol wrote: "Oh yes, I did forget about Misty. Yes she was just as big of an influence as Michael. Does anyone know the statistics for drug use in Mississippi?"I do not know that, but I assume it's in alignment with any other place with the issues of poverty that plague Mississippi. A headline in our newspaper today in Minneapolis stated that meth use is skyrocketing lately, but unlike the stuff that people cook up in their garages and in the woods as in our story, this is being brought in from Mexico. Tragic in either case.
I just read the New Yorker review. Thanks, Sherry, for including it.The bit where it talks about the combination of Catholicism and African spiritual beliefs reminded me of Louise Erdrich's LaRose, an equally intense book that includes death and spirits set in North Dakota. In that the blend is Catholicism and Native American spiritual beliefs. Both of these books will stick with me for a long time.
I also just finished this novel, and ended up reading it in just two days.It's a poignant, elegant poem of a novel. I didn't want to enjoy it, and perhaps enjoy is the wrong word for what I experienced reading it. I was touched and I listened.
I generally avoid even popular, well written books with vampires, ghosts, or the like, and I'm not crazy about magical realism. In this novel, though, the ghosts provide an extra, necessary layer to feeling some of the Black rural experience surrounding and inside of the main characters. To me they were also a manifestation of the heavy underlying burden of slave and racist history that we have in America, and to me it was also a bit of a relief to have them speak up. Somehow the singing of the ghosts tied in as well; I thought of slaves singing in the fields, and the singing being somewhere for their misery to be transported to.
I've noticed that for me to want to continue reading a fictional novel, I need to have a character or two to care about. Here, JoJo, Pop, and Kayla, and their bonds to each other, provided that for me. Pop was such a strong example of humanity under every trying condition imaginable. Leonie lost me when she not only didn't feed the children on the car trip, but automatically said they weren't hungry when offered food by others.
Suzy, I can relate to your initial feeling of being repelled by the negativity in the novel. I started it and put it aside for a bit. When I returned and really got into the book, I gradually found it becoming compulsive reading.I had forgotten Misty too. She seemed to subvert any/every good impulse Leonie had during that horrible car trip. That was amazingly effective writing. I wondered if they would survive it.
Your mention of Kayla telling the spirits in the trees to sing brings back the feeling of awe and chills I had reading it. I imagined the spirits of dead slaves, lynched people guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, people with no names, families who may have died together. It gave me goose bumps and still does. What a gift Ward has to create that image.
Ann, that was a great article on Parchman Prison. I had never heard of it before this book, but the true history of the place fits Ward's story so well. What a horrific place where the crimes of the commissioners and guards seem greater than the crimes of the inmates.
So many good new notes in the last few days! Suzy, thanks in particular, for clearing up what kind of key Richie was looking for. I had the wrong kind of key in mind too.
Constant Reader
Books mentioned in this topic
In Search of Lost Time: complete collection (Swann's Way, Within A Budding Grove, The Guermantes Way, Cities of the Plain, The Captive, The Sweet Cheat ... Time Regained) (other topics)LaRose (other topics)
Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst (other topics)
Lincoln in the Bardo (other topics)
Salvage the Bones (other topics)
More...
The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/bo...
The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
I could start right back up reading this again. The writing is evocative, clear and true. I was reminded of Toni Morrison and William Faulkner. The characters are ones I won’t forget for a while. Jojo is my favorite. He is the 13-year-old brother/caretaker of toddler Kayla since their mother, Leony, is neither suited nor able to be the mother she wants to be.
What did you think of all the ghosts? Did they represent the horrible history of the region come to (a kind of) life?
I found a link to some questions for book club discussions here: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/dis...
Here is the first one to start us off: . The first line comes from the point of view of Jojo, who says, “I like to think I know what death is. I like to think it’s something I could look at straight.” Why are these two things important to Jojo, and why do you think Ward chose to start the book this way?