Knife of Dreams (The Wheel of Time, #11) Knife of Dreams discussion

I think I stopped at book six. Should I read the next six?

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message 1: by Sarovar (last edited Aug 25, 2016 10:58AM) (new)

Sarovar I stopped a few years ago. I was behind for a few years, then caught up to the current Jordan output, then gave up because I had collage to attend I think at that point. Is there any point to reading the final six books?

message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

Hard-core fans make it all the way through. From reviews I've seen of the series, it majorly goes off the rails. Tortured readers describe their horrific experiences with the last book wherein NOTHING HAPPENS. You have been warned, fellow traveler.

message 3: by John (last edited Aug 25, 2016 10:58AM) (new)

John I stopped reading when the eigth book came out, and I noticed Jordan was writing 1000 page books which didn't even cover all of the major characters. I gave up in disgust.

message 4: by sudeshna (last edited Aug 25, 2016 10:59AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

sudeshna After book six is about when the series goes completely off the rails. It's excruciating to go through the next six, but one keeps hoping it'll recover the spark of the first 5. The plot has not progressed much since book 6. Rand continues to kill off various enemies one by one, but they all come alive again, the principal characters are all lost in transit and no, we're not one page closer to a conclusion. If you want to just catch up, there're fansites which give a chapter by chapter synopsis -- that should be enough to bring you up to date if you intend to read the final book, which is still due.

message 5: by Amelia (last edited Aug 25, 2016 10:59AM) (new)

Amelia I got into this series when I was 14. Problem became that I finished the books faster than they came out. I agree with most people here that Knife of Dreams does little to advance anything. I'm beginning to wonder if Jordan really means to finished the series at all. That would be horrific because it is a rather addictive story, when he tells it and doesn't get sidetracked. I'll be honest and say I don't plan to touch another Robert Jordan book until he finishes the whole series once and for all. That may be when I have grandchildren.

message 6: by Andrea (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:28AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Andrea Wait until (if?) the last one comes out (supposedly the next one, #12). Then we'll have a better answer. :-)

Lorri Definitely read the rest! Jordan was definitely complicated and a bit over-ambitious. However, the books are worth the effort. His characters are multifaceted and draw you into their individual plots. The story itself builds to a really interesting point. Unfortunately, he passed away before he finished the series. I read on his blog that he was working on the final book before he died. I have also read that he told his wife about the ending and that it will be completed posthumously.

Andrea Good news -- book 12, "A Memory of Light", will be finished soon by fantasy author Brandon Sanderson, making extensive use of Jordan's notes and drafts. See

Lorri Thanks for the information!

message 10: by Josh (new) - rated it 5 stars

Josh You know, I actually liked books 6-11. I can understand why many people thought there was too much going on in the books, but I also think it makes a huge difference if you read the books back-to-back instead of once every 1-2 years when they come out. Also, I think people need to keep in mind that the books aren't just about the main charecter Rand. If you enjoy complicated books that follow more than one charecter (such as Steven Erikson), I think you'll also enjoy books 6-11 of the Wheel of time series.

Joshua I loved this series, many people say it gets to long and tedious, but I read the whole thing in about 6 months and never got bored after I became used to Robert Jordan's style of writing.(after about book 3) You should definitely finish the series.

message 12: by Travis (new) - added it

Travis Ritch It just goes drastically downhill after book 6. There are moments, but in general long, long, looooong-winded descriptions of brooches, hairpins, and dresses. Mind-numbingly drawn out sections where absolutely nothing happens. I'm trying to force myself to start book 11, but I don't know if I can push through another one. It took me 3 years to get through 10 because I kept putting it down. I could only read a page or two at a time. I saw him at a book signing for book 10 and he seemed to be sharp, but if I hadn't, I would swear that he must have been going crazy right before he died. Book 12 is being put together by family and editor based on dictations and notes.

message 13: by Meh (new)

Meh The characters are multi-faceted? Not really. There's little or no character development at all. Nobody changes significantly past book six. It's a plot-driven series, but the problem is that he's got too many plates spinning at the same time. Too many new plot elements introduced without resolving enough. It just gets bigger and bigger and you start hating all the characters because they're so stupid. The first six are great. The man's got an incredibly detailed world going. The problem is too much detail, not enough substance.

Joshua OK, I don't want to start an argument but how about you high-fantasy haters don't comment? The whole incredible thing about these books is the character development and the incredibly intricate world and storyline. I, on the other hand, think the books got better and better. I read all of them in about 5 months. High-fantasy is meant to be complicated, new, and magical, all of which this series is. The character development doesn't change a whole lot, except for mainly Rand who just gets harder and harder, but so what? Maybe the characters have just been introduced as much as they will be. You can't expect the character's attitude to constantly shift just to accomodate those of you who get bored too easily. I'll admit that the series is long, probably the longest single fantasy series ever written, but it is absolutely amazing. After I got used to his style of writing (about in book 3) I never got bored. This is my all time favorite series.

message 15: by Olin (new) - rated it 5 stars

Olin i agree whole heartedly with Joshua. i hated books 1-3 but after i got used to him, he was good. yes he can drag on about hairpins but every author has their querks.
in my opinion the world (our world) is very complacted a mark of a good author is to make his world just as. to you WOT haters, think of how many people you know, not just your friends, but co-workers, neighbors, the telemarketer who calles you when you least want to talk. every single day presents you with layers and tangles of plots of 6 BILLION PEOPLE! to have made a fantasy world from scrap, and make it seem real, you need lots of people who have their own identity.

I would ask all you WOT haters to go back and read them again, faster this time, so you can see how it all fits togather. because it does.

message 16: by Mike (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Reiff I definitely agree that finishing the series is the best route. Personally I enjoyed the first four or five the best, because the battles were more descriptive, and there was less drawn out political involvement. The later books may have been somewhat slow and drawn out, but without having that, the series would not be nearly as great as it is. Having added multiple view points early on, having the very distinct paths of those included in the later books is necessary not only to the flow of the books sparked in the first few, but also in developing such a complex plot.

I've heard some say that it's nothing more than another on of those series that has some major event that everything centers around, referring to Tarmon Gai'don. I would disagree. Yes, it's a large part in deciding the paths of the different characters and such, but each book carries about a different center which makes the series that much greater. It's not just one long continuation, but a set of stories within a story.

message 17: by Mike (last edited Mar 04, 2009 06:25PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Reiff Meh, I totally disagree with you. Quite a few characters change past book six! I mean, it may not say outright that the characters are changing, but you have to think about what type of person the character is before the events of those books and what effect the events has on them. I don't want to give anything away for those who have not read this far, but look at Egwene. What she's forced into changes her completely from where she is before book six. I mean, you talk about character change, I think she changes the most. You may not see it as much, but Perrin and Mat change quite a bit due to the paths they follow. You must look at how they were before the started the path, the choices they make while on the path, and what the outcome is at the end of the path. Like Perrin before he leaves to do as Rand wishes for him in the south, and the events that take place and what the outcome was. Same with Mat. Yeah, some minor things stay the same, but who they are changes quite a bit. They begin to think differently, and act a lot different, especially with the ever drawing Tarmon Gai'don.

I wouldn't mind giving examples, but I don't want to give anything away to those who are not up to where I am in the series. (which is finished and waiting for the last! ^.^)

Joshua I see what you mean, Mike, each character goes through several major events that shift their attitude about different things. I can't wait for the last book to come out, but I'm not sure what to think of it. At the very least we'll get (hopefully) the ending that Robert Jordan wanted for the series. What do you guys think about Brandon Sanderson writing book 12?

message 19: by Andrew (new)

Andrew I am only am on six, and the only reason why I started was because I heard Brandon Sanderson was writing the last one. I greatly enjoyed the first three and a half, but now it gets so repetitive. By the end I sure hope it'll be worth the 11,000 pages.

message 20: by Espresso (last edited May 05, 2009 05:46PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Espresso Overall I think the story is good, unfortunately if you expect a clear plot arc in every book, then you will be disappointed. There is a great deal of repetition in every book that I think goes beyond what is necessary to set the plot.

I am a long time lover of the Wheel of Time world but I feel that there are some significant problems in the writing style and in the character development. I find it hard to believe that there is so much sexism directed at men from women and at women from men. I get a little annoyed hearing from both genders how foolish and gossipy the other gender is, if it is the case then there is no hope for the human race.

I must admit, that there are so many different plot arcs that it is entirely possible that many of them will not be satisfactorily ended.

If you want to know what happens it is much better to listen to them than it is to read them, it is easier not to get frustrated after listening to the story than it is after sitting and reading thousands of pages and receiving no resolution.

I hesitate to recommend it to anyone. Jordan died, and now his wife and the new author are planning to break the last book into multiple books (or so I have heard). I feel it has lost the original passion and is now nothing more than a money making enterprise. I mourn the time I wasted reading all of the repetition, and wish that I had moved on to something else.

message 21: by Mary (new)

Mary I put this series on hold after book 8. I/m waiting until the "last" book comes out in paperback. I want to know this thing has an ending before investing more hours into reading books that seem to go no where. Jordan went off track after about book 6.

message 22: by John (new) - rated it 3 stars

John So this is an old thread, but just to update it in case anyone happens across it:
In my first time through WOT I got to book 10 but never finished it because I didn't think the series was going to end when I heard the author was dying.

Eventually, Brandon Sanderson was selected to complete the WOT using Jordan's notes and some scenes he had completed. Now that the series is going to have an ending, I have reread those first 10 as well as book 11. I am currently reading book 12.

Book 12 was supposed to be the final book, but it was too large so the publisher broke it into 3 books. So in the end there will be 14 books (and one prequel). There is also a guide book that is full of good information about the world Jordan created.

Knowing that the series will have an end, (book 14 will be availabe in 2012) I would have no trouble recommending it to anyone to read.

message 23: by Mike (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Reiff I have learned that book series are easier to get through and a bit more enjoyable when you know that there is an end coming sometime soon. I mean, we knew an end was coming with Tarmon Gaidon and everything, but Jordan wrote as if there would be no end to anything. No real complaint though.

Waiting ever so impatiently for the final book to come.

message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

I enjoyed the series a lot and felt it was probably the best fantasy series I've ever read however I have to say I agree it is long winded. More epic than needed.

message 25: by Drew (new) - rated it 5 stars

Drew It is completely worth reading them all, don't listen to the naysayers, it is an awesome series.

message 26: by Mick (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mick I loved all the books and started reading from #1. It has been a long and tortuous wait, but I also enjoy rereading the series.
Yes, things were slow in book 6, but every book came with a supprise. It is quite fun to read old fan site posts. Noone guessed where this was going and for me, the cleansing of Saidin was a master touch.
Brandon hasn't missed a beat and I look forward to the conclusion this year!

message 27: by Clif (new) - added it

Clif Swinford Yes. Keep reading. Not saying they're all perfect... but when you get to the end of the latest book, you'll find yourself wishing the next one was already out. And with that, you'll know they're good.

message 28: by Russ (last edited Jun 25, 2012 06:18PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Russ Once I got thru Bk 1, I was hooked. Having to wait so long for the last book has caused me to lose all continuity though.

message 29: by Peter (last edited Jun 26, 2012 02:03PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter West Sarovar wrote: "I stopped a few years ago. I was behind for a few years, then caught up to the current Jordan output, then gave up because I had collage to attend I think at that point. Is there any point to readi..."

Yes, read them all. If you are pushed for time skip a page every time he starts talking about the type of cloth that a dress is made of. For the most part, each book has some great elements. He spent his life writing those books. Worth a read I think.

James This post was written in 2007 guys... I'm sure he made his decision by now.

message 31: by Mick (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mick Not necessarily, this series has been followed by us fans since the 1980's. Many of us have changed opinions over time and with the upcoming conclusion, it has brought the story fresh to our minds (as well as rereading). It has been fun to discuss even if the originator has lost any interest. If that is so, too bad for him!

Themetalmallet I actually liked Knife Of Dreams a bit more than the previous 3 or 4 because some story lines get resolved (especially the tedious Elayne one). That was the one major fault I had with Jordan between book six and this one. Certain character arcs were just taking too long to get resolved (Perrin's comes to mind).

I really think Sanderson brought back some life to the series as things have been developing in a much more rapid pace over the last two books.

James Sanderson nailed everything beloved in the story and I really think in all his books he brings in the feeling of building something.

Honestly I never tired of the series as a whole but I did drone through my share of chapters. I just honestly felt in each book the good outweighed the bad and if I hadn't read all the way through I wouldn't have gotten the treat in the Sanderson books at the end.

Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight were nothing short of brilliant. If you are on the fence all I can say is it's worth it.

Can't wait for AMOL

Roman Definitely read the rest after book six. Books 8 and 9 are the hardest to get through, but in the long run provide a depth to the characters that can't easily be reached any other way. After those, however, things begin to spiral towards the final confrontation in a web of this massive cast's actions that is so rich, it deserves the lengthy trek. Really makes the reader come to realize the frustration felt by all the main characters when they know what has to happen, but only in broad strokes, while desperately seeking out the details. I cannot wait for the last book later this year!

Akivac KEEP READING. Seriously. Book six was the best in the series in my opinion, but the only one I actually didn't like was number 10, and that's the shortest one.

Jeffery Moulton The quality really declines from about book 5-10. But the last 4 are really good and the conclusion is extremely excellent (IMO) Brandon Sanderson did a great job finishing the series after Jordan passed away. But you do have to push through those middle books. They are frustrating because so little happens, even for someone who enjoyed the series. So take that for what it's worth.

Oliver i skimmed through the last 4 or 5 books but managed to finish it. Would recommend finishing the books, it's okay to skim the boring parts and go right through the action.

Shawn They are totally worth finishing.

He rambles on about clothes sometimes.. but is no worse than Tolkien was with trees and is a saint compared to how GRRM is with food.

The last three books, which Sanderson wrote with the huge help of Jordan's wife and an insane amount of information and outline that Jordan left him, were amazing. But the overall series is really good too. Not everything in a story the scope of WoT can be battles and action and cool cool cool.. There are so many plots going on that to see it all.. you have to be willing to take a step back and enjoy each section for what it is.

And when he starts babbling on about clothing.. just skim a bit till you get back to the good stuff ;)

On a semi related note.. if you look at the overall timespan.. Jordan released 14 books in 23 years. And that included him dying, leaving all his notes and outlines to another author and it getting picked up and finished. That is pretty impressive. Except for the 4 year gap where he knew he was dying and wouldn't be able to finish and passed it off... the books came out on average every 2 years. For the size of the books and the depth within them... that is insane.

Look at GRRM... it has been 18 years... and he has 5 books done. And the last two were complete garbage. I kinda wish he would hand it off to Sanderson as well.

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