Scripture As A Tactic

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "YET ANOTHER LIE!"

Your failure to learn is truly tiresome.

"I challenge you to show me stating that I REJECT anything from the Bible!"

I already have, many, many times.

Starting with this one:

Exodus 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Want me to show you some of your lies?

Ok.

Here's one: "And you would be one of those who called Jesus sinful and ungodly for making the whip and using it on people."

You made it here, just now: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Even though you have no evidence it's true. Even though I proved it was a lie here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

And even though I stated the exact opposite, affirming Jesus' actions as righteous in that same post.

Here is another example:

I said:

"I'm familiar with the fact that many Christians use the term "pagan" to mean unbeliever, but also with the fact that Paganism is a specific category of religious belief.

So, I'm not sure which meaning you're intending, but I can agree Robert's beliefs have some serious issues, as does his attitude. ;) "

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Robert responded:

"Alexandra wrote: "So, I'm not sure which meaning you're intending, but I can agree Robert's beliefs have some serious issues, as does his attitude. ;) ,..."

LOL!!!!!! Believing the Bible is defined by you to be "having serious issues!"

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It's clear to see I did not say what you claimed I said.

THAT is a lie.

Here's another one:

Steve says (quoting Augustine, and in part), "Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; "

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Robert responds, ""Steve wrote: "Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; ..."

LOL! Stephen says the Bible is DISGRACEFUL... Moses KNEW creation was SIX DAYS..."

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Not only is that not What Steve said, what Steve did say was a quote from Augustine, not what he himself was saying.

So yeah, you lie.

You go around hurling false accusations of others lying, while YOU are the LIAR.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS IN GOD'S MOUTH."

Is that what you claim quoting Scripture is when people who are not YOU do it?

Nice double standard there, Robert. It only says what you want it to say, that is handy.

"I told you that you think YOU ARE THE VOICE OF GOD! "

You've told me a lot of things you think about me. Unfortunately for you, I don't give a rat's behind what you think.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: " It is NOT a false accusation."

Yeah, it is, and I have proven it. Which is why you cannot prove your accusation true.


"Based on the Scriptures you have presented and YOUR OPINIONS of them...

...YOU WOULD HAVE JUDGED JESUS as ungodly."

I have repeatedly affirmed Jesus was, and is, Righteous, in every regard, at all times, in all ways, as well as perfect and sinless.

And yet you continue to heap burning coals upon your head.

YOU are not Jesus. I would expect that to be clear and obvious, but apparently it is not. And WE are not Pharasees.

YOU are not JESUS dealing with MONEYCHANGERS in the Temple.

Try to get that little factoid through your head.

YOU are speaking to FELLOW, BELIEVING Christians who YOU have utter contempt for. Those who have been calling you out not on doctrine but on your attitudes and behaviors. As believers are instructed to do.

And you deceive yourself by thinking otherwise.

And YOU chose to disregard Scripture that YOU want to pretend don't apply to YOU, because YOU want to justify being an ass.

You think your tactics equal Scripture.

You think YOU equal Christ.

You think your attitudes and actions equal doctrine.

It's no wonder I find you sickening.

I'd rather talk to cult members than you. At least they have an excuse for their contempt of Christians.

[Rod]

I'm very sure God anoints many people throughout history----- just NOT you.

This is not a reflection on God's Word: but on your character and assumptions.

Do you not realize that if you showed the slightest hint of humility and love... we would stop challenging you? Then we could all work on ME and my character flaws.

[Alexandra]

Rod wrote: "I'm very sure God anoints many people throughout history----- just NOT you.

This is not a reflection on God's Word: but on your character and assumptions."

I agree with that assessment. Someday Robert may be qualified to be in ministry, but it's pretty obvious that is not now the case.

"Do you not realize that if you showed the slightest hint of humility and love... we would stop challenging you?"

Shoot, I'd settle for stopping all the dishonest tactics. I did try to teach him about that, sadly I learned to my disappointment it wasn't being done out of ignorance or lack of experience, but willful.

But yeah, that too.

"Then we could all work on ME and my character flaws."

He has been hogging the spotlight LOL

[Rod]

I do hate that all of us are ganging up on ol' Robert. But...

As a so-called Christian brother: he should be concerned with how people see him. But he's not. He doesn't seem self aware ( I don't even think he cares).

I'm itching to move on to something more interesting

[Alexandra]

Rod wrote: "I do hate that all of us are ganging up on ol' Robert. But...

As a so-called Christian brother: he should be concerned with how people see him. But he's not. He doesn't seem self aware ( I don't even think he cares). "

I get that. I had hoped the 2x4 method might shake something loose, but apparently not.

No, he doesn't seem to have any self-awareness. Or, rather, he seems to take certain passages, apply them according to his will, and disregard everything that challenges him. He seems to be a pick-and-chooser, at least when it comes to himself.

He is Jesus in the Temple, full of Righteous Indignation, and everyone who doesn't see his actions as righteous - up to and including his obvious and blatant lying - are Pharasees, Heretics and Infidels.

And the fact that he would, not once, but repeatedly, accuse a fellow Christian of denouncing Jesus simply for chastising him over HIS behavior? I am literally sick to my stomach.

When one person doesn't like you, well, maybe they just don't like you, but when everyone is saying the same basic thing it's time to consider maybe it really is YOU. ;)

"I'm itching to move on to something more interesting"

So, maybe start something? Or, you can add to my thread and give advice on tactics, etc.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "No double standard... you did NOT QUOTE Scripture. "

I have, yes. So many times I've lost track. Showing you what God says. And it is God who judges you. Not me.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "NOPE! It is NOT a false accusation"

I've already proven otherwise. Time to beam up to the Reality Ship.

[Robert]

Alexandra wrote: "I agree with that assessment. Someday Robert may be qualified to be in ministry, but it's pretty obvious that is not now the case...."

You will have to take your FALSE argument up with God. He is the One Who has called me... and has worked through me for decades.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "But the fruit of God working through me speaks otherwise! "

And yet we see that fruit is rotten.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "God KNOWS... you DON'T"

Except I do. The evidence is here for all to see.

[Chad]

Rod wrote: "I'm itching to move on to something more interesting."

This is getting tiresome... I left Robert's group and joined Why Christianity? in the hopes of getting away from Robert's entrapment's and trickery.

But, I just can't sit by and watch while Robert's leads people astray.

But this conversation is most definitely testing my patience. On another note, I enjoy reading Alexandra's very detailed and well thought out posts... and her occasional humor. ;)

I think that maybe the saddest part of all this is the folks that are giving money to Robert's ministry are likely not even aware of his sinful behavior and attitude within these forums. The last year that information is available (2011), $11K was donated to his ministry.

[Steve]

If someone says, "I love God," but hates a Christian brother or sister, that person is a liar; for if we don't love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we cannot see?

There a scripture for Robert. It is also the proof that he is a liar, because he has amply demonstrated his hatred...

[Alexandra]

Chad wrote: "But, I just can't sit by and watch while Robert's leads people astray. "

Same. Or beat them up for being sincere Christians who don't cower before his Excellence, or possibly any unbeliever reading his crap and deciding Christians are no better than the cults.

"But this conversation is most definitely testing my patience. On another note, I enjoy reading Alexandra's very detailed and well thought out posts... and her occasional humor. ;)"

Aw, thanks! Sometimes you just gotta laugh. And I admit, some of this is pretty funny, in a really sad and pathetic way.

"I think that maybe the saddest part of all this is the folks that are giving money to Robert's ministry are likely not even aware of his sinful behavior and attitude within these forums."

I know. And thinking of him talking to people? Yikes. And if this is how he treats his fellow Christians, how much more contempt must he have for unbelievers? And thinking it's acceptable to teach the Truth using lies and trickery? *Shudder*

[Steve]

Hatred is not held secretly in the heart Robert. It is expressed outwardly towards other humans..

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "NOTHING BUT YOUR OPINION..."

It is a fact that the evidence of your fruit is here for all to see. That is not my opinion, it is a demonstrable, provable FACT. That you deny it merely serves to make you appear delusional. We can ALL see your posts, what you say, how you say it, how you treat people, your attitudes, that is FRUIT Robert. And we can all see it.

"Just like you would have JUDGED JESUS as being ungodly!"

See Robert, this is just one example of your many problems. You first made this false accusation against me days ago. And it is an extremely serious accusation.

And yet you make it again, in spite of the fact that I have repeatedly affirmed the EXACT OPPOSITE multiple times. And you do so because I challenge YOU regarding YOUR behavior, attitudes, and tactics

I have repeatedly affirmed Jesus was, and is, Righteous, in every regard, at all times, in all ways, as well as perfect and sinless.

And yet you continue to heap burning coals upon your head.

YOU are not Jesus. I would expect that to be clear and obvious, but apparently it is not. And WE are not Pharasees.

YOU are not JESUS dealing with MONEYCHANGERS in the Temple.

Try to get that little factoid through your head.

YOU are speaking to FELLOW, BELIEVING Christians who YOU have utter contempt for. Those who have been calling you out not on doctrine but on your attitudes and behaviors. As believers are instructed to do.

And you deceive yourself by thinking otherwise.

And YOU chose to disregard Scripture that YOU want to pretend don't apply to YOU, you want to pretend the situation is equal to that of Jesus in the Temple, because YOU want to justify being an ass.

It isn't me you insult when you make such an accusation against me, Robert. And if you were wise you'd fall on your knees and beg His forgiveness.

[Alexandra]

Robert wrote: "God says that HE KNOWS what is in a person heart... yet you claim to know... are you god?

That's already been explained to you. Perhaps English isn't your first language? Or, is Scripture not clear to you simply by reading?

“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart[a] brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 12:33-35

"For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart[a] brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."
Luke 6:44-46

"Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."
Matthew 15:17-19

[Alexandra]

Rod, speaking of Mormonism, I bet you'll appreciate this:

"I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God as far as it's been plagiarized correctly."

Makes me LOL

[Alexandra]

"Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
2 Corinthians 4:1-4