The Nick Geiger Fan Club + SKEFFREY discussion
This topic is about
The Penderwicks
Rereading: The Penderwicks
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It's kind of a nice picture that Skye and Jane are accused to marry Jeffrey, but Batty will...
I wished that Batty would talk with Ms. Tifton because she could really think that no one would marry Jeffrey. Would that disturb that too much Batty's "innocence"? I mean it's so similar to and Batty is also Elizabeth - it could be very cool if Batty had fought with Mrs. Tifton. Her character is still a bit too much, aw, I love singing and aw, I save all spiders, but Batty should be a bit stronger and not just cute.
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No, Skye's the second oldest and she's the smartest just like Elizabeth is. And Lady Catherine is mad at Elizabeth because she's trying to get Mr. Darcy hooked up with her daughter. Mrs. Tifton doesn't have a daughter ofc but she's trying to get Jeffrey hooked up with Mrs. Robinson's daughter. Both Mr. Darcy and Jeffrey dislike the ones they're "supposed" to marry, instead looking for Elizabeth and Skye, both of which are sadly opposed to the guys and say along the lines of nah I would pick you last if I had to choose. And both have been proposed to once. I just wish Jeffrey had tried a second time...oh well. And then there's the fact that Lady Catherine looks down on the Bennets just like Mrs. Tifton looks down on the Penderwicks - both of these women think they're socially far above the families and that the families are uncultured (Mrs. Tifton talks about it in the first book, Lady Catherine throughout the entire book). I could go on but this is getting really really long, so you'll have to be satisfied with that :) in what way would P&P make Jane marry Jeffrey?
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Somehow odd: The real Elizabeth-character doesn't get Darcy, the fighting one doesn't get Darcy, but a third girl called Elizabeth.
Complicated!
omggg juny yessss thats such a good obsevration, i never even noticed that. but ya margo's like the "mom" and rlly mature like rosalind, edith is super chill, funny, and like the troublemaker, but i dont think the tiny girl is rlly like batty, cuz batty's a bit more shy and nto as hyper, idk.
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I'm a bit disappointed I must say that I didn't re-read the series before the last one came out and ruined part of the series for me :( Now I am re-reading it and at first I couldn't get that dumb awful, poor excuse for an ending, book out of my head when I'm re-reading the series. I just see the magic of Skeffery and then am sad all over again, especially with the hedge scene. It would've been better had there never been a last book than to have this! I didn't even get to read the series twice with the hope of Skeffery!Anyways have any of you reread the series since that atrocity of a book was published?
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(sorry about the late response, I haven't been on in like a month as you can tell lol)
ohhhh my goshhh Juny can I just say oh my gosh how much I appreciate you. And everything you've said about this series. I wish I could like see you in person and tell you bc holy cow I just love everything you say about this stuff, it's exactly what I want to say but don't know how to. It just makes me feel better that I'm not the only one who 100% hands-down hates that book without any feelings of "oh but Batty's so cute" or "oh but Skye didn't really blah blah blah" and all that crap about well written whatever. Also I'm so happy that you haven't backed down either - I was a lil worried I would be the only one who still hated it after the shock had worn off a little bit haha
Anyway, as to your question - I'm scared to reread it. I don't want to experience what you went through (which sounds melodramatic, but I really don't want to be that angry if I can help it). I'm already really sad and angry whenever I think about it, and I think rereading would make it worse. Plus my sister who liked that crap is in town for a visit and if I reread it I would probably get in another argument with her about how Baffrey just wouldn't work and Skeffrey all the way. Howwwwever, I have actually reread all the Skeffrey scenes that I marked down. Just because. I felt like it. And I kind of wanted to see if it would make me sad (it did. It actually made me almost cry until I told myself to get it together since the last book didn't count).
I AGREEEEEEE I wish she'd just never written it than have this ish stuck in my head! Aw, that is so sad that you never got to reread the series with the hope of Skeffrey, that is like really sad. I'm so glad I got to - though looking back I wish I'd read it a third time instead of skipping to my favorite parts.
"I just see the magic of Skeffrey and then am sad all over again" - that made me want to cry.
twice_baked✌️ wrote: "Juny wrote: "I'm a bit disappointed I must say that I didn't re-read the series before the last one came out and ruined part of the series for me :( Now I am re-reading it and at first I couldn't g..."I honestly appreciate you so much too and am so glad to hear you're still on the same page (though I didn't really think you would switch to the dark side hahaha!) I've really never stopped ranting about it and my poor roommate is getting tired of hearing about it and she hasn't even read the series! Hahaha!
Even for people who liked Baffrey I honestly don't know how they can admit to themselves that it was a good ending! I didn't think it was as well written as the other books by far! Man, Birdsall even said that she had a hard time coming back to Arundel and that she forgot how it looked and stuff...WHAT! She was running out of steam.
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HA, SAME! Every time I bring up how dumb Baffrey is, I see them all roll their eyes and think "oh here we go again..." lol but honestly there are so many things wrong with it, I truly don't understand how people can get on board with it!
Oh no. Nope, I'm never joining the dark side, ever. No no nope. Thank goodness we've still got our brains intact! That ending was very poorly written - like ik I've gone into all of this, but it just seemed so slapped together, there's no way she planned it as well as the others, I agree!
Wait, no way, what??? Don't tell me she didn't do any research either 🙄 that's no way to write a book, no wonder it turned out so badly... did you get that from an article? I want some proof of this so I can tack it onto my list of reasons to dislike the last book - maybe this time I'll convince my delusional friends hahaha (and if you can't find the source, no pressure, I believe you lol no worries).
She did revisit her notes and stuff I just was kind of shocked that she had forgotten the layout in the first place. Also she felt no regrets or homesickness after finishing the series forever!Anyways here's the interview link.
https://www.bookish.com/articles/jean...
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The Penderwicks at last is indeed a disappointing conclusion, but I think the literature references and the allusions to the other Penderwicks books are quite witty.
It's just copied -from "Grandfather's Dance", "The Enchanted Castle", "Emily's quest", "Rose in Bloom" and "Jo's Boys".
But the search for literature references did an irreversible impact and therefore, I have to accept the end as it is.
Nevertheless, I still understand you Skeffrey shippers. Forget this artificial construct (it's better than I first thought) and try to live with the earlier books. There are many series I did also stop or ended with standalone pretending.
By the way, I did write a letter to Birdsall. But answering would cost her too many words.....Well, I made my peace. It's the best solution to find a way with coping with it.
Verena wrote: "I finished the German translation - it was a bad translation with omissions and even changed names. So I reread the original edition.The Penderwicks at last is indeed a disappointing conclusion, b..."
I can't pretend that last book didn't happen though! I've tried, SOOO HARD! But every time there is a scene with Skeffery I just think how perfect it is and then remember that it's all for not!
I read the first three and then found I just didn't have the heart to go on to the fourth. For one it's rather sad and has very little of Skye and Jane in it. But what's more the part with Skye and Jeffery which I would've loved if it HAD turned out good, JUST KILLS ME NOW!
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I didn't take it to be vague really at all. She pretty clearly suggests or right out says (I don't remember exactly) that Batty will end up marrying Jeffery.
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btw Juny fsr I didn't ever see your comment so lol sorry it looks like I completely ignored you. Thanks for the link - I can't believe she didn't have any emotions (like, sadness emotions) over ending her 5-book series that she worked on over the span of ~15 years! 🤦🤦 does this lady even have a heart
twice_baked✌️ wrote: "Yeah, seemed pretty clear to me, but it could be that for those of us Skeffrey-shippers, that all hope was lost abandon ship etc (let's be real tho who's going to abandon ship when it's sm better t..."Haha! It's all good :) And yeah! Where is her heart? Obviously not with this book :(
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When I see in this book Batty and Jeffrey together, I'm thinking of this ship. Skeffrey is a story of its own (and Birdsall did it, of course, at Point Mouette and in her heart), but her head wanted something else, and that is repairing literature classics.
Verena wrote: "I think she didn't care for a plot or for characters because her work was obiously just connecting literature references and some references to previous books (and some number jokes). It was her st..."Hmm, I like what you said about her heart wanting Skeffery but her head wanting Baffery. Perhaps she did not feel so bold as to presume to rewrite Little Women and so literally stuck to the book and just a modern day retelling...I'm trying to convince myself of this but I don't think it will stick. She said herself that she related more to Batty and so that is probably why she had Batty end up with Jeffery. Still...If she wasn't feeling this book then I think she should've just not written it at all. That would've been better.
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You usually can relate as a writer to more than one character.
And the LW is just a masking in my opinion. No, no, no, it's Emily of New Moon all what is called "Baffrey". The fith book is copying "Grandfather's Dance" by Patricia MacLachlan, which is the 5th book of a series and it had to be 5 books that's why.
Verena wrote: "Don't forget that Birdsall also feels very close to Skye (temper, looks) and she did admit in an interview she did ferl very connected with her more than she had planned (at Point Mouette).You usu..."
I've never read Emily of New Moon. I haven't even read Little Women, just seen multiple versions of the movies and they kill me every. single. one. of. them! (I do plan to read the book soon here though)
And yes I remember her saying she felt connected to Skye, but that I guess was not enough for her! It makes no logical sense for Batty to end up with Jeffery! The only thing they have in common is MUSIC! They weren't great friends like Skye and him were! HE WAS FREAKING BABYSITTING HER IN THE OTHER BOOKS! Man here I go again...It's been like a year and a half since that atrocity came out and it's still just as painful :'(
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I must have deleted most of the scenes with Jeffery and Batty from my brain because I thought that the majority was with Jeffery and Skye and Jane. I totally get the fairy tale logic, perhaps that is what she had in her head, but she didn't pull it off right. I usually am fine with the youngest and unexpected one getting the "prince" because usually it makes sense. Here it did not.
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Verena wrote: "And If you say "only music in common", I wrote earlier in this fan club that Batty will - if she becomes a singer, will get together with Jeffrey. Of course, it's not necessary, but a trope. I don'..."I always shipped Skeffery, if it couldn't be Skye then I would've preferred that both of them stayed single so that it would leave it open for the readers to decide.
(If Jeffery had to marry someone and it could not be Skye, then I would've preferred Jane, even though Jane was the best part of that last book. She was the only one that seemed to have stayed in character, the same yet an older version of herself.)
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I agree, I like the "head vs heart" perspective... if you have a heart, you ship Skeffrey.
noooo Juny, don't ever read LW, it's trash - pretty much a waste of time, kind of like the last two Penderwicks books.
EW THATS DISGUSTING, grosssss he probably changed her diapers, YUCKKKK who would ship a baby and her male babysitter?? PROOF THAT BAFFREY SHIPPERS ARE WARPED and don't use common sense.
Nah I marked all the Skeffrey scenes and I'm p sure there are more than Baffrey ones. Maybe I'll go back and check but I might puke if I have to read Baffrey crap again.
Verena wrote: "Yeah, you're right. That's why I was never shipping them and also the fifth book was not really persuading. But since I know what Birdsall planned, I can at least accept it. By the way, Emily doesn..."
OH YUCK NO WAY. Three times as old, that's so overload, I swear what has happened to people's brains??? Why is this sweet or cute gross
(and also yah "what happened is happened" but sometimes what happens isn't good and shouldn't have been done, especially if you have control over it *ahem* Birdsall *ahem*)
AND YESSSSSSS if she didn't want them to get together she could have at least left room for us to imagine it and make our own decision so that both Baffrey and Skeffrey shippers could be happy making an ending - though idrc about Baffrey shippers being happy or not, for all I care they can take a long walk off a 10ft cliff
(oh and vv last - hate to say it, Verena, bc ew, but they do get married, she just didn't write the wedding for some wack reason, despite the WHOLE book leading up to the wedding but ok. In the prologue, or maybe the last chapter ? she mentions that the weddings are over and Lydia dances off into the sunset... or something moronic like that)
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Please don't call my favorite novel trash because it's actually a series. I'm also looking forward to the upcoming movie. The original part of LW is fine, with Jo and Laurie possibly getting together. It's just the second part "Good Wives" with Professor Bhaer and Beth's death. By the way, you see that age difference was common in the past. You are just like Skye and of course, there is more Skeffrey than Baffrey romance in the series. But from my rereading experiences and literature references I think it's pretty obvious in backsight how it had to end (yes, there are so mean references to Amy, and so just clumsy foreshadowings) Because it was never meant to be a contemporary romcom or a mature Austen-like love story, but a reboot of 19th century classics - and with the age difference, singing and animals just like a Disney fairy tale. It sounds odd that I accepted Batty and Jeffrey, even though I'm very angry about copycat Birdsall (It's just stolen, all the fifth book) and I'm rather thinking of the classics. And I just ship not anymore because it's easier to stay canon (now with Frozen 2 and Star Wars).
To make it short: Sorry that I'm so easily accepting it. But Birdall owns her story. And although the wedding is mentioned in the last chapter, it could have been just Rosalind's. With some imagination a lot could have happened and there's also a lot possible in the future (like divorce). I hope you'll understand that. I mean, hey, all did survive! There are so many ships/couples with a tragic ending (and I did mourn some literature characters).
And as I always say: As many couples as possible and no one dead is all I want from a novel.
(I hope you'll understand me and my lenghthy answer)
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If Birdsall doesn't give us a printed original book, just be happy with fandom. It's quite good!
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Please don't call my favorite novel trash because it's actually a series. I'm also looking forward to the up..."
Aw thanks, good to be back for at least a little while ;)
Well yeah that's true, it's technically not all trash because it's well-written and a classic and not all of it is awful... but the idea in the second part (and the romance between Laurie and Amy) is blehhhh gross. And the age difference is the same but it's still odd, especially when you look at how the Penderwicks are intentionally placed in the 21st century (even though there's no mention of phones or computers, but it's still obvious that it's modern times) and it seems a bit inconsistent to keep all the "old" stuff in while they're living in the 2000's - obviously people these days are pretty tolerant of whoever you fall in love with (if Jeffrey and Batty are even IN love, that's debatable and ew I can't believe I just typed out "bleep and bleep are in bleep" thats awful sorry), but it's still weird to me that J & B would even consider each other a possible love interest, like ?? where's ur brains guys ?? They used to be so practical and down to earth.
Also ahaha notice that the ship name for Laurie and Amy is Lamy 😂😂 that can't be coincidence, probably because Alcott knew deep down this was a terrible idea.
Yeah it wasn't meant to be necessarily good quality or deep, obviously she was writing kind of what Jo was writing - just something that gets published chapter by chapter in the newspaper (like in Anne of Green Gables when she has Percival or whoever the hero is) but we don't do that anymore so why can't Birdsall ditch that storyline, it's outdated we don't do it anymore! < or we shouldn't, imo lolol
That's part of what I hate about the last book!! It's just like a Disney fairy tale, it doesn't seem real or an authentic story about an American family, which is what I thought I was getting into when I read the first three books :\ if I wanted Disney fairy tale, I'd read cheap fiction or watch the movies, because that's the only time everything turns out exactly the way you think, with gorgeous/handsome couples who are the good guys and can't do wrong, who fight against the bad guys who only do wrong and are ugly and twisted and warped and obviously end up dead. The Penderwicks didn't seem like that kind of book - the "good guys" were just average people who weren't pretty or ugly, they were just people. They didn't think they were pretty, there was no drama going on at school, and the only "bad guys" were the kids who were snotty and annoying and that was about as evil as it got. I don't expect a plot twist, I don't expect mounting tension, I don't expect a fight scene... because it's a book about a family on the East coast just living their lives, and it was totally believable - until we got to the fourth book, and then the fifth book REALLY drove it home. Like, why even go the fairy tale route when you haven't done that before? It's as if she'd introduced magic or superpowers, like oh now Batty can read minds and Skye can levitate! ...that would be out of the question, it doesn't fit the kind of world the Penderwicks live in, so why is adding fairy effects not just as crazy?
ig what I'm tryna say is, it's just a very different feel from the first three books, and that doesn't seem like good writing, if you can't stick with or generate the same feel.
It's true that all survived so there is a chance of going back. Couple things I don't like (and can't really get past) about the divorce option, even though it's a good point, that there's a way out, is - 1) the Penderwicks are so innocent and happy, and usually divorce is so unhappy that I wouldn't really want to imagine them going through that. And I can't imagine divorce where both are happy with the decision and ok with it, even though I think that has happened before but I just can't wrap my mind around it. 2) wouldn't it be weird for Skye and Jeffrey to get a divorce and then marry each other, and wouldn't it kind of ruin Skye's and Batty's (already-rocky) relationship? I say already rocky because Skye was the one who put the idea of their mother dying because of Batty in Batty's head and she says at the end of book four that she and Batty have never, like, connected (not sure what she says, but it's along those lines) so if Batty's ex-husband and her sister got married, I'd think that would make holidays awkward and the relationship strained. And I wouldn't want that either.
Howeverrrr, if Batty and Dusek were the ones to get the divorce, that would sort of work. Again, though, Skye and Batty would have a hard time w that because Batty obviously divorced him for a reason. And again, it would make the holidays awkward for Jeffrey and Batty... probably Skye too, now that I think about it, because if I were her I'd be really stressed, like does he regret the divorce? does she? Are they looking at each other because they hate each other or because they love each other and don't want me to know? Either way I'm screwed. And also it doesn't fit with the "fairy tale" feel of the last two, but obviously the feel of the series doesn't really worry Birdsall, since she totally messed up the series with all the inconsistent vibes.
ig I'll just imagine it as Rosalind got married, Skye had some last-minute cold feet and bowed out so Dusek went home and fell in love with someone there, Skyped Skye (lol that's hard to read), and told her nah this isn't gonna work - so then Skye is sad but not rlly regretful, and Jeffrey comforts her and she realizes... it was always you lol maybe for the end credits I can use Maroon 5's song, if I ever make a Penderwicks movie. Hey if I do, you guys have to help me cast the characters and then change the plot so that the fifth book never happens.
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I hope you won't hate me for confessing that I imagine The Penderwicks at last as a ballet (to Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty). Because I read it in English (the German translation is so bad), it's anyway for me a different story.
I have a pretty good imagination and I've tried to imagine an alternate ending but nope, just can't do that. Even though everybody keeps saying I'll hate LW I still really want to read it so that I can actually have grounds to complain about it because even though I've watched almost all of the LW renditions they've come out with, I know they are different than the book. And saying you've watched the movie but haven't read the book just brings shame down on you from all the book lovers.
I am also very excited to see the new LW rendition! AHH! I don't even know why I keep watching them when I hate how they end so so much! I guess I just keep hoping that it will somehow end right this time. (Even though that has not been the case.) The one with Christian Bale is the best and the worst anyways. You gotta love it and hate it at the same time because he was such a good Laurie that it was even more frustrating when he didn't end up marrying Jo. Man I hate those movies so much!
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By the way, from all what I know about the movie, it will be very close to the novel (more than 2 hours running time!). It will focus more on the second part, focusing on Amy and Bhaer. It will also have a different time line and be more episodic like the book. They want to focus more also on Meg and John Brooke. Which means, that Jo and Laurie will be not the smashed romance we're always hoping for, but rather episodic.
If you really want a good end, just watch the Masterpiece Tv-series from 2018: The second part ends with Meg's wedding and after two hours, it's a good occasion for switching off!
Ah yes the Masterpiece Tv-series was pretty good but it wasn't my favorite of the versions. I'm excited to hear that this new version is going to be more similar to the book. Also I might take your suggestion and just read part of it, thanks :)
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lolll I getchu, if you say "I've only watched the movie", it's like ASKING for fire to reign down from the booklovers lol some people are so weird about books 😂😂 (and ik I'm so weird about the Penderwicks but in my defense it's the ONLY book series that I'm weird about... except maybe probably the Queen's Thief series) < btw Verena did you read those or are they still on your tbr list?
It's a classic, so even though you'll hate it, at least you'll have read it, in which case I support your decision even if I think it will contaminate your soul and you might never get over it (lol jk only Gone With the Wind is that evil).
oh and Verena, as for you imagining the last book as a ballet, it legit ends with Lydia dancing off into the sunset which basically makes it a ballet/musical so it doesn't surprise me at all that that's the vibe you would get from it. And I don't mind if people imagine it like that because I hate musicals almost as much as I hate the fifth book 😂
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No, I haven't read the Queen's thief (I actually don't like series and there are only few I read).
By the way, I read not only Gone with the wind, but also the sequel "Scarlett", by Alexandra Ripley (also as TV-movie) - with happily ever after at last.
Though, you should give the new LW movie a try!
Bhaer is actually young and handsome (Louis Garrel) and they shifted even a scene with Jo/Laurie from the book on Jo/Bhaer.
And Amy isn't the spoiled child, but played by Florence Pugh as an ambitious, passionate and sassy young woman (never Amy was closer to Skye).
Little Women will start in Europe in February (so I have to wait more than month after the US-start).
I love musicals but not all just the good ones ;) Newsies is the best musical of all time and was the one musical I actually really loved, before that I liked them but thought them also rather boring and the music kind of uninteresting. I am SOOOO Excited for the Queen's thief 6th and FINAL BOOK! Also I just found out that another series I love (The False Prince) is getting a fourth book! It's going to be pure joy as the fourth one won't ruin the others for me since they stand apart in their own trilogy, unlike the Penderwicks. Phew!
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Waaiittt, does the sequel have a good ending?? (and by good we all know I mean (view spoiler) bc holyyy I would read and watch and love that 😍😍
I've heard a lot of good things about the new movie and I like that they make the ending not [as] bad, because they start off, apparently, with (view spoiler) to make you like them and be sympathetic to them before you've even met the families which is smart (sorry abt the spoiler - just in case you, Juny, don't know the story, even tho who doesn't) but I just wasn't a fan of the story itself 🤷 so idk if the movie would be worth it. You'll have to tell me what you think when February rolls around!
YESS ME TOOOO, I can't waittt I have it preordered and I'm so ready for it to be heeeere (and also I just want the title to be resolved, I want to know what "Return of the Thief" is supposed to mean - I have so many theories and guesses and I want to knowww). Also since when is the False Prince getting a fourth?? I'm p sure I read all three but from what I remember, they were kind of all the same :\ I liked them but they didn't hold a candle to Queen's Thief so I think I kind of ruined them for myself.
Yahhh happy new yearrr, how's the new decade been so far?
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I did not like the new Little Women movie! Amy was waaaay too old. She looked like she was 30 and she had a really deep modern sounding voice :( It just did not seem right at all, blah!Also since I read The False Prince first I didn't compare it to the Thief and so that's why I love it so much! But I get that if you read The Thief first then a lot of people didn't like it as much.
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I don' t want to defend the movie, but because they did flashbacks the older Amy is not so disturbing.
Florence Pugh is 24 years old (Amy in the novel later 18), and Eliza Scanlen is Beth with 21 years (as 19), but she looks far younger. Amy is supposed to look older and mature. She is not just a girlish brat. In the movie, she is meant to be the ambitious woman ready for society.
Yes I watched it in the movie theatre but the problem was that they were doing scenes from the book when Amy is suppose to be 12 like the pickled lime scene and it was just altogether odd. She was whining and crying about the incident to Laurie because she's suppose to be 12 but she looks way older!!! If they had wanted to make her seem older then they shouldn't have done that scene from the book and rather chosen scenes from later on when she's older. I'm now about a quarter of the way through the book and I find it rather odd that every movie reproduction of the book has chosen the same scenes when there are others to choose from...I'm starting to think that some of them didn't read the book but instead just based their script off the other movie reproductions.
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In my opinion, there shouldn't be only one movie, but two parts!!!
But to be fair: This new movie included the famous scenes from all movies (theatre on Christmas, Beth's slippers, Jo at Mr. Laurence's picture: from the 1933 and the 1949 remake. and Pickwick Club, iceskating, Vanity Fair, Fred Vaughn: from the 1994 movie).
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For sure I'm not planning on watching the tv show (or the movie)... I don't want to go through that all over again 😂 thanks for the heads up!
are you talking about the one by JS Cooper? The cover alone makes all my red flags pop up 😛
Yeahh I'm tryna save money so I don't think I'll pay to watch it, but I love scam sites, so maybe someday I'll watch on one of those, who knows. I just don't like Laurie and Jo not getting together and since they make his and Amy's relationship more realistic, it makes me less enthusiastic. Plus all the excitement has blown over here in the US, so it's not like I have friends inviting me to see it, yk? 😉
A responsible oldest sister
A middle graded tomboy
A youngest awkward sister
And even a special stepmother...
Could be inspired a bit, but we often have pictures in mind. Since I write stories I know that writers always have to have something in mind.
The problem is just if you quote certain scenes or names...
And that does Birdsall with Little Women and Pride and Prejudice