"The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson (BR)

[Meredith]

We are doing a buddy read of The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson. Anyone can join in! Other than first impressions, please use spoiler tags and include page/chapter/percent complete so folks can follow along with the discussion.

[Meredith]

First impression, I've read a little ways in and found it to be a change of pace compared to other things I've been reading recently. It took a bit for me to get in the swing of the style of the narrative, but now I'm starting to get pulled in.

[Beth]

So I had read through "Warp and Weft" but yesterday I couldn't find my copy anywhere. I can, however, get the audiobook from the library so if doesn't turn up I'll do that soon.

So far, I really like that the book has both an epic, large-scale feel to it and a lot of more intimate moments.

One of my favorite lines, from Bistami's perspective
"The word of God came down to man as rain to soil, and the result was mud, not clear water."

[Meredith]

I'm still in the first section (Awake to Emptiness). I'm hoping to make a chunk of progress this weekend.

[Meredith]

Book 1 "Awake to Emptiness", (view spoiler)[ I like the journey the characters take. I feel like this section is mostly for readers to see what things were like away from Europe around the time of the Black Plague. It's a starting point, seeing the large cities in Africa, India, Asia, learning some of the politics, religion, etc., but it's not diverged (yet) from actual history, this is just a part of history many - including myself- are not familiar with. (hide spoiler)]

General thought, (view spoiler)[ The idea of reincarnation is a neat way to move through different eras, and still have a thread that runs through the story. I like that the author uses a specific religious notion of afterlife, Bardo, so it also plays a role in the non-western setting of the story. (hide spoiler)]

Question about something that is bugging me (view spoiler)[ Any thoughts on why the author chooses at the end of every chapter to remind the reader we are at the end of a chapter (and now we need to read the next chapter)? The story seems to be from Bold's perspective, but then at the end of each chapter is a reminder there's some other omniscient story-teller. It seems to deliberately remove the reader from the story, by reminding them it's just a story in some way. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

sorry for the delay! I'm now caught up to where I was in the book.

I remember the end of those chapters from the first section. Not sure what that's about. The later chapters don't do that.

I guess this is not a spoiler - but one of my favorites from "The Hajj in the Heart" section is the discussion of why the plague occurred (the scene with the blood orange - "The red-fleshed segments were like wedges of bright death.")

[Meredith]

I liked that scene too, and I've been very interested in what they would encounter on their journey 'back' into Europe. (view spoiler)[ I liked that both the medieval and Roman ruins were equally interesting to ibn Ezra (I think) as the group traveled up through Spain/al Andalus. They are both past historical eras. (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Book Two: Haj in the Heart, (view spoiler)[ I liked the journey aspect, seeing more of the world especially the trip into Spain and then France. I wanted to see what Europe looks like "now" in the story. This section was a bit more religious a story than what I normally read. I don't read a lot of Christian-oriented religious fiction either, but it did occur to me while reading that I probably take for granted a lot of Christian references in what I read. (hide spoiler)]

Book 3, Ocean Continents. (view spoiler)[ I really enjoyed the adventure style of this section, after it started out very political which had me concerned. It also made me think about how different and how similar the Chinese 'discovery' of the Americas was compared to the European discovery. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

I'm wondering what Robinson is doing with the afterlife/Buddhist theme in this book. The ending chapter of Book 4 "The Alchemist" was really interesting. Let me know what you think when you get to that part.

[Meredith]

Beth wrote: "I'm wondering what Robinson is doing with the afterlife/Buddhist theme in this book. The ending chapter of Book 4 "The Alchemist" was really interesting. Let me know what you think when you get to ..."

That was interesting, I just finished that Book and went back to re-read the last chapter. (view spoiler)[ Partly the discussion they have seems to be a rejection of religion or god(s) altogether, at least by Khalid. Which is interesting since they are sitting right there in the afterlife being judged. It also seems like they are trying to take control of some aspects of their lives in the next reincarnation. Or, that they always could at some level which is what Khalid has always been driven by and now he has goaded Bahram into more assertiveness too. It will be interesting to see how that goes. How much of this conversation can they carry into the new life? Will they feel life was more fair when they are trying to direct it or choose their own path more? (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Book 4: The Alchemist.

Beth, I definitely agree with your earlier comment about the book being both epic and intimate. This section I was very caught up in the personal stories that were going on even while the folks were caught up in something bigger than themselves - in fact pushed there by the changes in their personal lives.

(view spoiler)[ I enjoyed seeing the scientific progress shown here, mirroring the historical transition from alchemy to modern sciences, including chemistry, physics, optics, astronomy. On the other hand, I am starting to feel like the whole book is just showing how things that happened historically, would still happen if history were radically different. Discovering the Americas, scientific progress and discovery. I'd like to see something different happen in our world where Europe was nearly de-populated, rather than (or in addition to) the things Europeans did getting done by others anyway. (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Book 5: Warp and Weft.

Well, I guess I got my wish, (view spoiler)[ I thought this section was a very interesting divergence from known history and not just a re-do by non-Christians, while still being plausible too - that Japanese people could have crossed the Pacific to North America and interacted with native North Americans. Fromwest/Busho's story of his travels across the continent was interesting too. (hide spoiler)]

Every time they wind up in the Bardo, I sing "I'm back in the Bardo again!" to the tune of "Back in the Saddle Again." (view spoiler)[ That last visit was a bit bonkers. The characters are taking more control of their story. I wonder though, what will happen if they ever succeed and don't have to go back to another life on earth. (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Book 6: Widow Kang
Took a bit of a break, but now I'm back at it. (view spoiler)[ So, when our characters come into a new life aware of having shared past lives, they recognize each other and that may benefit them in this life (except for poor Bao!), but does it do any other good in the world? Widow Kang and Ibrahim became accomplished scholars in their fields, but did this extend to actual actions or benefit others? Also, in his writing at the end, did Ibrahim invent Communism? Or at least Socialism? All that talk about "redistribution of wealth".... (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Also, in his writing at the end, did Ibrahim invent Communism? Or at least Socialism? All that talk about "redistribution of wealth"...

Definitely sounds like some kind of socialism. I'll be interested to see if the book elaborates on this.

[Meredith]

Book 7: The Age of Great Progress.
I enjoyed this section, I like when the sections cover a lot of ground - literally. (view spoiler)[ I'm not super excited that the next section seems to be about world war, but at least it looks short. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

One of my favorite quotes from “Widow Kang”

“No single civilization could ever progress; it is always a matter of two or more colliding. Thus the waves on the shore never rise higher than when the backwash of some earlier wave falls back into the next one incoming, and a white line of water jumps up to a startling height. History may not resemble so much the seasons of a year, as waves in the sea, running this way and that, making patterns, sometimes a triple peak, a very mountain of cultural energy, for a time.”

In "The Age of Great Progress" I really liked the setting of Travancore.

[Meredith]

Yes, Travancore was pretty idyllic.

[Meredith]

Book 8, War of the Asuras.
Yup, war is hell, (view spoiler)[in more ways than one (hide spoiler)].

Some general thoughts. (view spoiler)[I feel like KSR wanted the different book sections to have different styles and feels, but they only sort of do. The first section stood out to me because, as I commented, the narrator kept directly addressing the reader. I think KSR did that in the first book, so that when this technique wan't used in the second section, it showed that the 'style' would be different each time. But really, to me the sections all have a very similar voice, even though some have chapter breaks or other organization, and some don't. This most recent section has no breaks at all and is supposed to be the "gritty war drama" portion, but overall, I don't feel it has a very different feel from the other sections. I'm glad it was short. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

My favorite sections are probably "Widow Kang/The Age of Great Progress." But there were some things I liked in this section, especially the conversation between Bai and Kuo at the end.

According to this timeline, the date for the start of "The War of the Asuras" corresponds to 1914 in real-world history:
http://kimstanleyrobinson.info/conten...

This was worked out by taking the dates in the book, given in Islamic or Chinese calendars, and converting them. So basically it's analogous to World War I, except that instead of a pause before World War II starts, it just keeps going, for decades.

I've finished the book, but I'm kind of still digesting it, so I'll be interested to see what you think of the last two sections.

[Meredith]

Thanks for sharing that link. I had been sort of guesstimating the year, but realized I was probably getting way off by these later sections.

Book 9, Nsara. I really liked this section. Possibly my favorite, though I'll have to think about that more once I am done with the book. (view spoiler)[ I liked the portrayal of the intellectual community and the women's lives, especially the continuing impact of the war on everyday life. I liked the mention of achievements that we read about in previous sections - The Alchemist and The Widow Kang. The attempt by the military to take over and suppress the forward movement of the society reminded me of the many times this has happened historically and it was pleasing that it failed. (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Book 10, The first years. I liked this section, especially when it became more contemplative. (view spoiler)[I enjoyed Bao's thoughts that you could live a full, rewarding life even if you weren't with your jati group. Sort of opposes a lot of the main thread of the book, that progress is made with the jati. One thing I found a little annoying in this section was the self-referential bits. He basically describes his own book as one of the texts being studied by Zhu. I rolled my eyes. (hide spoiler)]

I'll have to think a bit more about what I think about the whole book. Interested to hear your thoughts.

[Beth]

My favorite quote from "Nsara:"
(view spoiler)["Invisible worlds, full of energy and power: subatomic harems, each pulsing on the edge of a great explosion. Budur sighed as this image came to her. There was no escaping the latent violence at the heart of things. Even the stones were mortal." (hide spoiler)]

[Reet]

Book 7: the age of great progress (483
63.3%) "Offended I am at the scene of the sultan having sex with a concubine in front of the doctor, a waiter and a eunuch, while four servants of the concubine held her legs up and out for her. Disgusting, and detracts from the book. "