Stephen King Fans discussion
2nd Round of King Books
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RAGE- Book 4
mrbooks wrote: "...Back in the early 80 a movie was banned in England for general release and video sales. Evil dead made a absolute killing in this country just on video sales. ..."LOL. I forgot it was banned just thought it was an 18s. I would have seen it while I was 14.
I have just finished the book and posted my review. At the end of the review I make a statement of whether I was right or not to read a book that the author banned. It's not a comment whether it should be banned but more a thought on does an Author not have a certain right after release about whether his/her work can be withdrawn? Does their Intecellutal Property become the publics entirely after publication? Is it a case of author beware?
BTW I loved rereading this. I got so much more from it after just finishing the shinning and 'Salem's lot. I am just wondering out loud here.
Adam wrote: "Katie, if you find a copy for $300 please let me know. :)"I fairness the same copy I got was going for 75 Euro on ebay.ie. So I have put a note in the book that it is hard to get and so more valuable than a normal second-hand paperback. My family are terrible about borrowing my books and giving them away to other people :)
Summer wrote: "I'm okay with King taking the book out of print. Ultimately, it's his creation and he gets to dictate what does and doesn't happen with it. I can understand why he'd be uncomfortable with having th..."It's not that at all. From the students stand point the feel the teacher and the administration are not on there side they don't understand what they are going through. (view spoiler) Student sometimes think adults don't understand.
Maria wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "...Back in the early 80 a movie was banned in England for general release and video sales. Evil dead made a absolute killing in this country just on video sales. ..."LOL. I forgot..."
No the author is well within his rights to ban a book, but it is in reality impossible to control something once it is in print. Yes he can stop further publication but the one out there are still there and people will still read them.
mrbooks wrote: "No the author is well within his rights to ban a book, but it is in reality impossible to control something once it is in print. Yes he can stop further publication but the one out there are still there and people will still read them."Well, we can see what happened in this group. The book is not readily available in Amazon or other book stores. People have to make an effort to find it. So it's far less likely to fall into the hands of a disturbed teen.
Summer wrote: "I'm okay with King taking the book out of print. Ultimately, it's his creation and he gets to dictate what does and doesn't happen with it. I can understand why he'd be uncomfortable with having th...""Do you think the book highlights something school staff aren't already aware of and familiar with?"
So I asked my wife the former junior high teacher and got a few hours about how "there are teachers and there are teachers" and the really good ones will be aware but others will not, even if you hit them on the head with it... etc. My idea is simply that any bit of knowledge that will help you through a deadly situation is worth it, and here we have a book by a guy who admittedly is a master at seeing into people's minds and helping us understand their motivation (even though this was in the earliest stages of his career) and he wrote a book that murdering teens read and related to. If I were a teacher I'd read it just in case there was a straw of information in there that would help me.
Woe, it turns out I did write a review of RAGE last year. Completely forgot. Guess I'm writing too many reviews. Anyway, I liked it a lot. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I think that when King pulled RAGE, it is because of the immediacy of Columbine...as (arguably) this did NOT stop mass shootings in America, this is a bummer for the reading community and 'Constant Readers'...I KNEW the pull was going to happen so bought 2 Bachman Books in paperback, one I lend out and one I keep. Got them at my university bookstore for 5 BUCKS Each, as a Prof put the collection as a mandatory read in his class on purpose, due to the timely nature of the pull event...---Jen from Quebec :0)
Femmy wrote: "I think the scariest thing about this story is [spoilers removed]"Don't look at it so...realistically. It is a horror novella, after all...and *deep question warning:* ARE TEACHERS *PEOPLE!? lol-- just joking. I am actually a high school teacher myself. --Jen from Quebec :0) I actually adore this story and am glad that I knew enough to buy an extra copy back in tha day.
Femmy wrote: "I think the scariest thing about this story is [spoilers removed]"That’s a great point. I think (view spoiler)
I think Summer's point of initial obedience is a good one, but I think their continued obedience, for lack of a better word, was their need to confess. Not confess deeds ( I know there was some of that), but a confession of feelings of fear, vulnerability. Perhaps the teens that seemed to have it all together needed that even more than those that didn't, (Irma). Because it looked to the world like they were doing great it felt almost shameful to have the fears and self doubt that are simply part of growing up.I hadn't reread this in years and just finished last night. It was a very tight, deep read for me. I'm glad it was short because the feelings he invoked were so intense and eliciting those feelings in so few pages gave them more weight.
Summer wrote: "I think (view spoiler) always strained credibility a little for me, and I think things would definitely go differently given our current climate."I think you hit the nail right on the head, Summer. The students' choice (view spoiler)
Kandice wrote: "I don’t think the book should be banned. Perhaps when he originally “took it off the market” it may have made sense, but like Aditya said, it would only incite someone already “broken.”Along thos..."
Isn’t that how he even got the idea for Mr Mercedes?
It seems a little like a contradiction.
I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters copied the shooting by even holding his algebra class hostage. Since these incidents were by children versus adults, I can see how he felt the book should be pulled from print. Now though, kids just need to turn on the news to be inspired.
Jennifer Lynn wrote: "Don't look at it so...realistically. It is a horror novella, after all."LOL! I do have a tendency to take fiction too seriously. I can't even read A Series of Unfortunate Events. I know they're children books and we're supposed to take things lightly, but I can't bear to read all the horrible things that happen to the children. I stopped reading at the first volume.
Nice to see most people in the thread speaking out against censorship. Agree with mrbooks age restriction is seldom enforceable. Keeping R rated movies or M rated games aside I remember buying booze in school uniform before I had turned 18 and legal drinking age where I reside is 21. I don't know how the situation is in your part of the world but I am quite sure any resourceful kid will manage to acquire most items made contraband due to age restrictions without much hassle if he is sufficiently determined.
Femmy wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "No the author is well within his rights to ban a book, but it is in reality impossible to control something once it is in print. Yes he can stop further publication but the one out ..."The only problem is Femmy people will haves the book at home parents and grand parents will have it so it is not as hard to find if they are serious about it. To be serious about it they have to know something about the book before hand.
Kandice wrote: "I think Summer's point of initial obedience is a good one, but I think their continued obedience, for lack of a better word, was their need to confess. Not confess deeds ( I know there was some of ..."I have a problem with the whole obedience thing, (view spoiler)
I would rather say they changed their paradigm to fit their needs for not survival that is a bit bass, unless we look at it as changing for their mental survival.
mrbooks wrote: " I would rather say they changed their paradigm to fit their needs for not survival that is a bit bass, unless we look at it as changing for their mental survival. .."I don't understand this. What do you mean?
Basically they changed there way of thinking. With the teachers in a classroom environment they were obedient. With Charlie in the classroom they were themselves so they changed there classroom Paradigm to meet the situation.
Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters copied the shooting by even holding his algebra class ho..."So there's a whole question about whether or not an author really owns a book once it's published. In the legal sense, yes, but in the philosophical sense once a book is launched into the world maybe it belongs to humanity. In that case, the author isn't responsible for the effects of the work, nor is she/he entitled to be able to control its destiny and its use. It's like, "Hey, I just write em, what happens after that is out of my control." You almost have to think that way if you write horror, or thrillers, or comedy or even philosophy.
With decades of school shootings and the related news coverage behind today's kids, I doubt that the reaction of a classroom full of teens would match what happens in RAGE.
I think anyone crazy enough to actually murder students at school would likely do it with or without having read Rage.
I was at Half Price books today and they had a mass pocket paperback copy of The Bachman Books. It has a sticker on it that said it included “Rage.” It was only $5.00.
Nick wrote: "So there's a whole question about whether or not an author really owns a book once it's published. In the legal sense, yes, but in the philosophical sense once a book is launched into the world maybe it belongs to humanity. In that case, the author isn't responsible for the effects of the work, nor is she/he entitled to be able to control its destiny and its use. It's like, "Hey, I just write em, what happens after that is out of my control." You almost have to think that way if you write horror, or thrillers, or comedy or even philosophy. ..."You make a good point.
Nick wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters copied the shooting by even holding his al..."I'm sure guilt is still in play here when it is your book they find in a murderous teen locker. I mean you made sense and all but it's hard to put aside feelings especially if your the author of the book they got their ideas from when used in the wrong or guided them to do something criminal.
I have yet to read Rage but I've been off and on here reading some of everyone's comments. Makes me want to read it now.
In King's own words:"There are factors in the Carneal case which make it doubtful that Rage was the defining factor, but I fully recognize that it is in my own self-interest to feel just that way; that I am prejudiced in my own behalf. I also recognize the fact that a novel such as Rage may act as an accelerant on a troubled mind; one cannot divorce the presence of my book in that kid's locker from what he did any more than one can divorce the gruesome sex-murders committed by Ted Bundy from his extensive collection of bondage-oriented porno magazines. To argue free speech in the face of such an obvious linkage (or to suggest that others may obtain a catharsis from such material which allows them to be atrocious only in their fantasies) seems to me immoral. That such stories, video games (Harris was fond of a violent computer-shootout game called Doom), or photographic scenarios will exist no matter what--that they will be obtainable under the counter if not over it--begs the question. The point is that I don't want to be a part of it. Once I knew what had happened, I pulled the ejection-seat lever on that particular piece of work. I withdrew Rage, and I did it with relief rather than regret."
https://www.stephen-king.de/stephen-k...
Femmy wrote: "In King's own words:"There are factors in the Carneal case which make it doubtful that Rage was the defining factor, but I fully recognize that it is in my own self-interest to feel just that way..."
Great quote Femmy, Thanks.
Nancy wrote: "I was at Half Price bBoks today and they had a mass pocket paperback copy of The Bachman Books. It has a sticker on it that said it included “Rage.” It was only $5.00."Did you get it?
J.J. wrote: "Nick wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters copied the shooting by even h..."JJ just because the book is in a locker doesn't mean it had anything to do with the decision to do what they did. With the amount of news out there always talking about the school shootings or even just the mass shootings. I would be more inclined to believe the kids got it from the news then from a book.
Here is an example, Slender Man, look at all the things teens are doing to get in the good books of slender man. He is a made up character yet you have teens who are going out and attacking and killing there friends because they are so desperate to be one of slender mans chosen. So who is to blame, the author or inventor of slender man or is society to blame or maybe the parents. Or do you blame the kids for what they are ultimately responsible for. Yes they know right from wrong so they are responsible not a mythical character that has never really existed.
mrbooks wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I was at Half Price bBoks today and they had a mass pocket paperback copy of The Bachman Books. It has a sticker on it that said it included “Rage.” It was only $5.00."Did you get it?"
No. I have the large paperback version already. Although, I probably could sell it on Amazon for a lot more. 🤣
mrbooks wrote: "So who is to blame, the author or inventor of slender man or is society to blame or maybe the parents...."We always need new and better research, but what research has consistently shown is that people with violent tendencies seek out violent media, whether that’s porn, books, video games, what have you. It’s unclear if there’s a causal relationship, but I think it’s worth considering whether having violent material out there if worth the cost, knowing that it’s likely to be consumed by people who are using it as fuel. It’s a slippery slope, certainly: should everyone lack access to violent media just because some people will take it too far? But given what we know, I think it’s worth a second thought.
mrbooks wrote: "J.J. wrote: "Nick wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters copied the shoot..."Sure I see where you coming from but when anything bad like that happens anyone will find a scapegoat for whatever reason. In society today I've notice no one owns up to their own actions and point fingers. We live in a different era now with all this social media crap. I'm 40 years old and every once in a great while when I was in my teens, early 20(when AOL first came out) social media back then wasn't all this soft hearted crybaby crap like it is with these new millennials. A bully picks on you and now they mass murder a class or a hypersensitive people making pipe bombs. Then fast forward to from 1996 to 2018 there has been a huge spike of new era soft heart crybabies who don't know how to handle life because of this new age of social media and blame it on, books, tv, made up slender man, all these kids fall for it. Tell me to so you proof for my comments? Lol It's called common sense and being on social media since the 90s. I'm not saying bullying doesn't exist and all that but back then the victim was usually the guy who excelled in life and rub it in there how they excelled in life because of the hard life they went through. Many bully's were the one's with mental health issues or whatever reason why they were bullies maybe a product of how they were raised at home. Just my thoughts on this new era of kids nowadays. Anyone my age or older might agree with me that back then when we were the age of these kids nowadays would of never thought of all this bullshit mass murdering of elementary schools, high schools, colleges. I'm sure there are some facts that that could say it happen back in my days but not at the rate it's going on now. I remember that crazy shooter in the tower at UT Longhorns taking down college students. Can anyone say that shootings in schools was happening monthly after that or yearly after that? So back to where I said in my comment you replied to about the book Rage. I think someone mentioned S King use to be a teacher and felt how the school system can get the idea how the kid probably got it from that book(scapegoat), all I was saying I can see how the authors or anything famous could feel guilty but shouldn't but when social media puts out there "oh they found a book in locker" or anything crap. They blame it on books, blame it on movies, anything on tv always pointing fingers and never take blame of there own actions.
I know my rant was all over the place but this new age of teens and social media go way over the top. This is the only social media I use because of the love of books. I'm not on Facebook, Myspace or whatever new browsers to socialize in. They all are exploiting us people, Sean Parker(Creator of Napster and hold a large amount of shares/stock in Facebook) even said that Facebook is here just to exploit the people. Sorry you all but I guess I got a bit personal. I just don't like seeing where life is heading to right now because of technology. I hope I made some sense. If I offended anyone, too bad. I tell it like I see it and sometimes truth hurts. Come back with all the facts to prove me wrong and it won't change my way of looking at life and how's it has changed in the past 22 years because of social media.
J.J. wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "J.J. wrote: "Nick wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters ..."I look in on this thread regularly but haven’t posted, but have to say that’s a great post. I agree with pretty much all of it.
Summer wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "So who is to blame, the author or inventor of slender man or is society to blame or maybe the parents...."We always need new and better research, but what research has consistentl..."
Sorry summer I will disagree with this. Just because someone might read or look at something and go off the handle is not a reason to stop all possible material that might trip there trigger to do something bad. Guess what even if it is not out there they are still going to act the way they want to it isn't about what is or isn't available. Those that do things like this are rebelling against society not because there is adverse material out there but because they wan to. I can understand where you are coming from but I feel that would be punishing the majority to possibly mollify a few who are hell bent on destruction.
J.J. wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "J.J. wrote: "Nick wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I am on the fence about him banning his book. I can see when he did it, why he did it. School shootings were not common. One of the shooters ..."J.J. Nope not going to argue with you, I agree with almost everything you pointed out here. Bullies are a product of society we pick on what is weaker then what we are. Yes I know this is true I was the smallest in school and I was the one bullied by all. Like in the military, shit rolls down hill being the smallest you are at the bottom, it is pretty much a fact of life.
Can't remember where I read it or who said it but here is a quote. "give me two people I will show you society give me three people I will show you exclusion." Can't verify the accuracy of the quote that is how I remember it but it may not be right.
My two cents... in the military part of the training is to stand up for those who can’t and defend those principles that make our country free. You have my back and I got yours.... anyway when I was going up we had friends and we stood by each other and we stuck up for those who did not, which is how we made new friends which the bullies new better in my neighborhood...As far as the banning of a book... bad idea... it instantly becomes something to have...
In the Military we are taught that we are a brotherhood, no matter the branch we are all one. We may fight amongst ourselves for that is not tolerated but accepted within reason. But let another attack us and we are as one brothers and sisters in arms. We protect the rights of those who need protecting. There are those who think that is Americans only, they are wrong it is every man woman and child no matter the religion or ethnicity. We volunteer to give our limbs and lives if necessary for their right to hate us and ridicule us. Yes we know it happens but still we will continue to put our selves in the line of fire physically physiologically and metaphorically for them. Yes I speak from experience I did 20 years in the Air Force and am proud of it. I have been accused of many things like taking advantage of the public by soaking them for my pay. I would love to see some of these people live off what I was paid. Counting pennies is an understatement. We for the most part were living hand to mouth but we didn't and don't complain for we were proud of what we did even if the public didn't like us.
mrbooks wrote: "In the Military we are taught that we are a brotherhood, no matter the branch we are all one. We may fight amongst ourselves for that is not tolerated but accepted within reason. But let another at..."Kenneth wrote: "My two cents... in the military part of the training is to stand up for those who can’t and defend those principles that make our country free. You have my back and I got yours.... anyway when I wa..."
Thanks for your service, gentlemen. My father is an Army vet.
J.J. Thank you for your recognition.Here is the funny thing I feel sort of self conscious writing things like that I didn't do it for thanks I did it because I felt it was my duty, or calling what ever you want to call it. From a little boy all I want to do was join the Military well I was one of the few boys who had there wish come true. I didn't know what I wanted to be all I knew is I wanted to be in the military. No you can't say I was a product of my generation. When I was growing up and when I joined the military was looked down on. The Vietnam war was winding up and the draw down at the end of the war was going on when I joined.
Also here is a QuizUp question it’s funny how it was spoken about picking on someone small. Name a US veteran that was rejected by all but one branch of the service and was the highest decorated vet of their war they were fighting in....no cheating by looking it up... anyway just because someone is smaller doesn’t equate to being without guts and glory.... now I’m up two 4 cents but oh well we are what we are....
Kenneth wrote: "Also here is a QuizUp question it’s funny how it was spoken about picking on someone small. Name a US veteran that was rejected by all but one branch of the service and was the highest decorated ve..."mrbooks wrote: "J.J. Thank you for your recognition.
Here is the funny thing I feel sort of self conscious writing things like that I didn't do it for thanks I did it because I felt it was my duty, or calling wh..."
Well said, sirs, very well said.
mrbooks wrote: "J.J. Thank you for your recognition.Here is the funny thing I feel sort of self conscious writing things like that I didn't do it for thanks I did it because I felt it was my duty, or calling wh..."
Just to join in here... I always had the highest respect for the military, not just because my Dad was a decorated war hero (mrbooks, those comments about the father In Taken By Witches were based on him - he was a medic who won the silver star and the bronze star and was part of the force that liberated the first concentration camp in WWII) I also worked with the Army on several major simulation training projects in the early 2000's. The army more than anyone else really had their act together, it was impressive). But I was also a young father during the Vietnam War era when the military was pretty much shunned because they were forced to carry out tactics that the public thought of as reprehensible. Kids thought that they were being lined up as cannon fodder to be killed for a war that the general public thought was wrong. the idea was why fight and get killed following a policy that was destroying an entire country (maybe two). The opposing view, of course, was MY COUNTRY RIGHT OR WRONG. That's was the mood of the country when this book was written, and some of that tone is in this book. The police and adults and the shrink are the bad guys, the kids are the good guys, the teachers who get killed are unimportant. The goal is to destroy the kid who represents the establishment. It may be important to judge this book as a product of the anti-establishment times that affected it... King was affected, he had to be you know, otherwise he'd just be playing Hearts In Atlantis.
Nick wrote: "That's was the mood of the country when this book was written, and some of that tone is in this book. The police and adults and the shrink are the bad guys, the kids are the good guys, the teachers who get killed are unimportant. The goal is to destroy the kid who represents the establishment. It may be important to judge this book as a product of the anti-establishment times that affected it."Nick, thank you for sharing that perspective on the book. I think it makes a lot of sense and helps me understand it better.
Femmy wrote: "Nick wrote: "That's was the mood of the country when this book was written, and some of that tone is in this book. The police and adults and the shrink are the bad guys, the kids are the good guys,..."Thanks, Femmy, and if you haven't, read Hearts in Atlantis. Kings most serious effort to deal with the Vietnam War itself... while still telling a story about the Dark Tower.
I'll definitely read that, Nick. Thanks.
Well, I just finished (because I was still behind and finishing last month's book), so I'll add to what I've read here already. I had my copy of the Bachman Book (the big trade copy version) that I found at Half-Price Books in the Clearance section like a decade ago. I got my grubby mitts on it for $2 US. Pretty sweet steal in my eyes.It's sat on my shelves since then, though, so I was glad to finally get to read a story. And I really enjoyed it. I think there's a lot to be said about (view spoiler).
To me, it really felt like Stephen King had been asked to write The Breakfast Club, and when they got the results they were too shocked and abashed to give it a green light, and so they said "let's ask this John Hughes fella to give it a shot". But I'm warped like that.
Ben wrote: "Well, I just finished (because I was still behind and finishing last month's book), so I'll add to what I've read here already. I had my copy of the Bachman Book (the big trade copy version) that I..."In his own way John Hughes is pretty great.
Stephen King Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Bachman Books: Four Early Novels by Stephen King (other topics)The Red Tree (other topics)
The Girl on the Train (other topics)
Gone Girl (other topics)
I completely agree with this.