Buddenbrooks -- Mar/Apr 2018 Group Classic Read

[Marina]

With little more than 100 pages left, I am sorry to say that I'm not loving it as I thought I would. I'm still enjoying it, though, the story is interesting and the writing (even though in translation) is superb, but I guess my expectations were just too high.

(view spoiler)[The account of Elisabeth Buddenbrook's death is amazing, if obviously very bleak. That kind of medical overtreatment of a dying person is described in a perfect manner, and it gave me the chills. This is obviously a very controversial topic, and I don't think this is the right place to discuss it, but I guess nowadays it would be inconceivable to administer such futile life-saving measures just to let the family have some little more hours or even minutes with the agonizing person. I think these are the most superbly written pages in the whole novel (at least so far).

I also loved it how Mann described little Hanno striking the page in the family book after his own name, saying he thought there wouldn't come anything after. This is amazingly evocative of what is going to happen in the end. (hide spoiler)]

So if you read the spoiler you see I find some of the parts to be really superb, but this doesn't mean I'm loving the book to pieces. I'm really sorry about that, since I thought I would fall in love with it, but I guess this is what happens when our expectations are too high.

Still a great book, though.

[John]

Well, I'm a third of the way through, and currently I would say it's well-written, well-plotted, giving a fascinating view of place, time, a particular society, and characters and their growth and interactions. Irony and humour. Of course it's the decline of a family, since that's the secondary title, and one reads that this stems from Mann's experience and view of life, even at such a young age. Presumably a different writer with a different life-view could have written a similar family saga with a secondary title 'The Ascent of a Family'! So, nothing really profound about that, I'd say.

I would so far say, an excellent and informative read, but not as outstanding as I had hoped. But there's still time ........

[Marina]

I've finished the book, and now I can say I really liked it. I gave it 4 stars, but couldn't stretch the rating to 5 - as I said I didn't fall in love, and that's what my 5 stars are for.

I don't have time now (nor energy) to write a review in English, I only wrote one in Italian. However, let me just say that I liked the second half of the book much better than the first, that is, I enjoyed the decline of the family more than its prosperity. The Germans would say this might be Schadenfreude! (i.e. rejoicing for other people's misfortunes). It might be so, or it might simply be that I like bleakness more than happiness - only in fiction, though, NOT in real life!!

I think the writing was excellent, as were the characterization and the descriptions, the dialogues, etc. In fact, Mann is great both at describing happy times as he is at describing the decline of the Buddenbrooks.

Some scenes are just perfect, and I'm especially thinking of the ones I talked about under spoiler in my previous message.

I'm glad I read it. I would recommend it, though I would also recommend not to have too high expectations, because when that is the case, disappointment is always round the corner.

[John]

Well, 80% read, and in the last few parts there have been some magical and moving set-pieces - not to give anything away, but one involving a Christmas, and one a death.

I agree with Marina's general evaluation. The book gets better, perhaps because one has lived with the characters and therefore one understands and sympathises (or the opposite of sympathises) with their journeys through life.

Veering towards a 4* at the moment. Looking forward to the last 2 (of 11) parts.

[Alannah]

Now that I've finished Rebecca, I'm about to download this one on audible now.

[Pam]

I'm curious if any of you have read other works by Mann. I'm planning on reading The Magic Mountain at some point, maybe this year.

[Alannah]

I know this will sound odd but while I'm listening to the audiobook, all I think of is that the narrator makes me feel like I'm listening to something by Oscar Wilde for some reason.

[Marina]

Pam wrote: "I'm curious if any of you have read other works by Mann. I'm planning on reading The Magic Mountain at some point, maybe this year."

Pam, I've read Tonio Kröger, Tristan and Death in Venice. I loved them all, but it's been a long time. I plan on reading The Magic Mountain very soon. I also own Royal Highness as an ebook, which I've downloaded recently, but haven't read it yet. I'm currently reading a novel by his son Klaus Mann, Mephisto.

[Alannah]

I finished this last night and sorted of went between giving it three stars or four, in the end, I decided to give it four, It took me a while to get into the book, as I mentioned in my previous post on this thread, the narrator made me feel like I was listening to Oscar Wilde, I ended up really enjoying it and there were a couple of nights I couldn't stop listening to it, the book does get better and I really enjoyed reading it.

[John]

Yes, I finished this a few days ago, and in the end gave it 4*, as I was veering towards after 9 of the 11 parts (see message 54). Some magical writing, an interesting view of a particular society over a period, although I didn't buy the broader implications of the 'decline of a family', that was more from Mann's own psyche, I suspect. But, a worthy and enjoyable read.

[Pink]

This is on the back burner for me, I still hope to get to it later this month, but I'm reading other things first.

[Leslie]

I have finally started -- hopefully I will finish before April is over! Having finished 6 chapters, it was a bit daunting to see that the Kindle was telling me that I was only 4% done.

I am still working out who's who but once I get a bit further in, I will go back and read the comments (I haven't been looking at them so far).

[Leslie]

I was amused to find this passage in a book written in 1924 & set in 1835:

"  'Trade schools and technical schools and commerical schools are popping up like mushrooms, and grammar schools and classical education are suddenly all foolishness, and the whole world has nothing in its head but coal mines and factories and making money. Fine, fine, it's all very fine. But on the other hand, a bit stupide, over the long term -- is it not?' ..."

Except for the coal mines, this is a very modern sentiment!!

[John]

😂

[Suzanne]

I enjoyed the discussion on the language of the book, much of which is lost in translation. It was also fascinating to see the links with people that Mann knew in real life. That helps to explain the extreme vividness of his descriptions of characters, which struck me from the beginning.
One theme I have not seen discussed is that of money. To me this appeared to be the central theme of the book as it was all about the decline of the family which was unable to continue generating the wealth which had placed them at the summit of their bourgeois society. It was present in Grünlich’s deceit when he woos Tony and underlies the anxiety of Frau Permaneder when she divorces for the second time. Then there is all the resentment of the nouveau riche Hagenström whose business eclipses that of the Buddenbrooks, with the ultimate insult when he purchases the family home. These are just a few examples of the prevalence of the money theme. What do others think?

[Marina]

Suzanne, I think you are right, money does seem to play a central role in this novel. Although I think it is more about prestige and high position in society than money in and of itself. I might be wrong, though.

[Leslie]

I am not done yet but I also feel that money is an important issue in the book. Not money as wealth per se but as a sign of the prosperity of the mercantile firm and the social implications of that.

There are a lot of things in this book that remind me of American families of similar backgrounds -- the go-getter who rose from little to make a fortune is a bit different but the arrogant entitlement and inability of succeeding generations strikes me as a story I have read many times in the newspapers during my lifetime. Some are well-intentioned but ineffective, some are arrogantly inept, some are spendthrift but it seems that it is rare for a family to continue to thrive economically based upon the business acumen of its members.

[Leslie]

I must say that I find the character of Tony quite irritating! Even when she was a child and it hasn't gotten better now that she is older.

[Leslie]

I have finished and liked it very much. Tony aggravated me throughout but she was very real as all the characters were, I thought, even when they were eccentric (such as Christian). Thomas was the character for whom I felt the most empathy, I think.

While some aspects of the book were clearly grounded in their time, I couldn't help drawing parallels to modern times and in that, I feel, is the true power of the book. The situation of a family which has risen in wealth and status due to the hard work & intelligence of a past generation and the differing character of the descendants who are raised in different (wealthier but not necessarily better) circumstances seems like a timeless dilemma to me.