Discussion: Introduction and Translator's Note from Emily Wilson's Translation of The Odyssey

[Judy]

Being somehow unable to learn another language, I am in awe of you who have studied Greek. I am a little behind on the reading, still on the Introduction, but am looking forward to the translator's note. I read quite a bit of translated literature and love reading what translators have to say about their particular art.

[Sue]

I am also still reading the introduction and enjoying it immensely. Wilson writes so clearly and cleanly about obscure topics that I can feel myself nodding, if not with full understanding, definitely with great appreciation. This discussion is also fantastic and bodes well for our reading talks.

I also loved Wilson's comment that the Homer discussed in ancient Greece would be much the same as that we read now. What a link with past humans, living, breathing people who enjoyed being entertained and educated by these epics.

And Tamara, I so agree with you about the book. I love holding it. The print itself seems special (I'm probably just in love with the book). But I can't bring myself to mark it up so I'm using the post-it markers.
And lastly, we'll have to meet back here in 6 years for the Iliad!

[Jay]

I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction, packed with helpful insights and perspectives. In a former life, I sent much time exploring pre-contact myths in the Americans. Among the guides I used in that exploration were the works of Mircea Eliade, works such as his Myth and Reality. I have not returned to Eliade in preparation for these discussions, but I do wonder if his concepts would have relevance for understand the Odyssey (and the Illiad)?

[Elena]

Jay wrote: "I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction, packed with helpful insights and perspectives. In a former life, I sent much time exploring pre-contact myths in the Americans. Among the guides I used in tha..."I'm reading Lewis Hyde on the archetype of the trickster, recommended by Kris, lots of parallels between the Odyssey and Native American mythology....Hyde's book has a conversational tone, not pompous in any way, but he's onto something big...

[Sue]

Elena, I'm going to have to find that book. I've found the Native American Trickster interesting for a long time and have meant to investigate more. This book would meet both old and new goals.

I finished the introduction and translator's note and enjoyed both. Her discussion of how she used meter and chose words was fascinating. I've learned even more regard for the work of translating.

[Kris]

Jay wrote: "I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction, packed with helpful insights and perspectives. In a former life, I sent much time exploring pre-contact myths in the Americans. Among the guides I used in tha..."

Jay, it's been decades since I last read Eliade, but I did some searches and found references to his work in numerous essays and articles about The Odyssey. I'm interested in any resonances you find!

[Kris]

Elena wrote: "I'm reading Lewis Hyde on the archetype of the trickster, recommended by Kris, lots of parallels between the Odyssey and Native American mythology....Hyde's book has a conversational tone, not pompous in any way, but he's onto something big...."

Elena, I'm so glad your reading of Hyde is going along well. I'm looking forward to your sharing any insights into The Odyssey that you gain!

[Jay]

Kris wrote: "Jay wrote: "I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction, packed with helpful insights and perspectives. In a former life, I sent much time exploring pre-contact myths in the Americans. Among the guides I..."

At the very least, and playing off Elena'a comments, maybe we should speak of the universality (cross cultural connections) of the Odyssey? Isn't myth universality one of Eliade's themes?

[Judy]

I finished the Introduction today. I suspect it was more dense and difficult reading than the poem will entail, but I feel armed with knowledge essential to reading it. In fact I cannot imagine a better introduction. I loved the way she tied in all the many variations in literature, from James Joyce to Milton to Derek Walcott. I thought of how many stories I have read that included odysseys. The Chronicles of Narnia, The Magicians trilogy by Lev Grossman, and so many more. You know that feeling of riches one gets from reading widely? My coffers feel quite full today.

[Kris]

Judy, I know exactly how you feel. So glad you're on this journey with us!

[Lyn]

Reading the Introduction and translator's note was like taking miniature course on the inner meanings of the Odyssey and an introduction to the customs and beliefs of archaic Greeks.
Some of the ideas that particularly struck me were that:

Xenia, hospitality, was a means of creating and maintaining networks amongst elite Greek men, a way in which unrelated Greek families would connect to one another as individuals, without having to fight for dominance;

Zeus, as king of the gods, is closely connected with concepts of justice and retribution, and takes a special interest in masculine political power;

The differences in the need for elite men and women to be faithful to their spouses. 'Female fidelity is important for maintaining a husband's sense of honour and control; it is associated with the preservation of a particularly wealthy household and the perpetuation of a particular elite family line'. I enjoyed Wilson's discussion of readily different interpretations of Penelope's caution in recognising Odysseus on his return.

What does a homecoming mean? Can it be a return to a past stability? What will it mean in future?

Odysseus' attributes don't make a particularly flattering list - this is not the simple hero I grew up with:
'Odysseus is a migrant, but he is also a political and military leader, a strategist, a poet, a loving husband and father, and adulterers homeless person, an athlete, a disabled cripple, a soldier with a traumatic past, pirate, thief and liar, a fugitive, a colonial invader, a home owner, a sailor, a construction worker, a mass murderer and a a war hero'.

Others have commented on the trickster theme.

I found it wonderfully ironical that the Cretans, like Odysseus himself, were spoken of as master liars, and that the beautiful cover illustration is of Ladies of the Minoan Court of Knossos.

I'm sure I'll come back to the Introduction as I read through the poem itself. I got so much from it.

[Tamara]

Lyn wrote: "Reading the Introduction and translator's note was like taking miniature course on the inner meanings of the Odyssey and an introduction to the customs and beliefs of archaic Greeks.
Some of the id..."

Great comments, Lyn.

[Judy]

janet wrote: "I am late in arriving. I enjoyed and was intrigued by many of the things everyone mentioned.

Marcus, thanks for quoting this!
Page 5 "The poem promotes but also questions its own fantasies and i..."

Loved all your musings and rambling here. The introduction was a wonderful piece of writing that seems to have affected all of us emotionally as well as intellectually.

[Lyn]

Hi Jane, Wikipedia has quite a long entry on Iphigenia, the sacrificed daughter. The earliest references given are Euripides and Ovid, and I don’t recall it being spoken of in the Iliad. Here’s the Wikipedia link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphig...

[Kathleen]

I'm thrilled to finally have my hands on this, and have been enjoying everyone's comments as I made my way through the introduction. I'll post thoughts here for any other latecomers like me!

First things first, I must agree that this is such a sparklingly lovely book. Mine is a not-yet-marred library copy, and a physical treat to read.

Next, I want to say that Emily Wilson's writing style is so simple, yet deep. That is certainly not easy to pull off, and I just love how clear she makes her thoughts, even the complex ideas about the ambiguities in the story.

Two things I picked up on that I will be watching for in the poem are:
Food. She says "“Eating is important in The Odyssey, and eating the wrong things or eating in the wrong way results in violence or death.” Fascinating.
Gods vs humans. "Great charm and magic comes from the notion that the divine and human worlds are less separate than we might otherwise imagine.”

Finally, I'd like to mention the last sentence of the intro. Odysseus is all of us--the good, the bad, the moral, the immoral. Loved that idea, and what we can learn from this story!

[Lyn]

Hi Kathleen
It’s great to know you’ve joined us. Like you, I admire and enjoy Emily Wilson’s ability to talk about so many aspects of Ancient Greek culture and society, as well as what happens in the poem itself. It’s a triumph for me and so stimulating to read!