Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

39 views
The Forum - Debate Religion > Most divisive verse of all time

Comments Showing 1-6 of 6 (6 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And just to thicken the story: Matthew 16:19
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

These verses have divided the church for centuries. People fight to the death over them. Brilliant Catholic apologists can't even outwardly examine them... and Protestant theologians scratch their heads over them.

Is the bible not clear? Did God's foreknowledge see all the damage these would do? Or did God plan this exactly as it's playing out? What if God would have left this verse out of the bible?


message 2: by Eric (new)

Eric Scott The verse is not divisive. No "verse" is divisive. Read James. Read this blog site. Look at all the Christian blogs posted on Goodreads. All scripture is God-breathed and profitable. Scripture, "in context" as our peers here like to put it, tells us what's right, explains errant ways, gives course corrections and encourages us to do better.
I'm timid responding because I have come to expect even this post to draw criticism from some who will say I'm not Christian, or not a good enough Christian to submit this, because I didn't specifically reference 2 Timothy or a particular Scripture in support of my argument. Or better, source 2 Tim 3:16, which would only draw ire from those who say I should have noted verse 17 to complete the thought. You get my drift. Well, actually you don't, because in order to make these hall monitors happy I would have to write out the Scripture and annotate it.
But, I believe Matthew's reference was to Peter's statement of faith, not to Peter himself, though any good Catholic would argue otherwise. I hesitate to go further because I have found that some here are not interested in the textual Greek reference to the term "rock" which makes it pretty clear, except in the eyes of those who don't want to go there, but prefer to insist on a good analysis of the King James Version as sanctioned by God at the Creation of the Earth 5778 years and 6 day ago.
Rather than sharing my interpretation and extending my analysis, I'll drop the ball and return to the shelter of my study and wait for bombs to drop from some loving peer who will surely be able to better explain what God meant from the obvious rendering of your verse as stated his King James Bible, of which I am not enlightened sufficiently to quote verbatim, though I could sit here and recite the first chapter of Genesis in Hebrew, fully recognizing there is no way to know how it sounded in 1440 BC.
To my point... James says we are divided by our willfulness. But I fear that's Greek to most Christians.


message 3: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle I totally agree.
And yet, if you don't fully embrace the Pope (based on this verse) you will be anathema to the Saving Ark of the Catholic collective and possibly purgatory bound.


message 4: by T.R. (new)

T.R. Bosse | 22 comments You are right, this could be nominated as the most divisive verse, although there are others. It should be plain to any Christian what the Lord meant in the passage. If He meant He would build His Church upon Peter, He would have said: "thou art Peter, and upon you I will build My Church." But God is not the author of confusion (1Corinthians 14:33).

When Jesus said; flesh and blood has not revealed this to you (Peter), but My Father in heaven -- it wasn't Peter who knew within himself that Jesus was the Son of God, nor did anyone else tell him that, but the Father in heaven revealed it to him. And upon that Rock: {what rock? (revelation)} I will build My Church. The Church is built upon revelation, and not just any revelation, but that through the Holy Ghost (John14:26, 1 John 2:27). The Holy Ghost reveals to the Christian the things we need to know. There should be no confusion because (1 Corinthians 3:11) tells us that Jesus is the only foundation of the Church, plus He also said in the Old Testament, He would never give His glory to another.


message 5: by Wade (new)

Wade J. | 177 comments Interesting discussion, Rod. As a former Catholic, I struggled for years with resentment towards that church. Now, however, I realize that in every church, there are true followers of Jesus Christ, as well as false followers. Religion doesn't save - Jesus does.

I prefer to disagree with this "rock was Peter" verse and try to not bludgeon others who believe the rock is now the Pope. Instead, John 14:6 is my focus.


message 6: by Tom (new)

Tom Rothbauer | 36 comments I love the suggestion that some Scriptural passages are considered divisive. I personally believe that the passages are not divisive, but many times, our interpretation of them lead to division. I suggest this in my new book, We Should Be One: United in the Word of God. If you agree with me, you might consider reading it.


back to top