Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
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Keeping the Sabbath
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Easy on Robert D. I am sure he believes in electricity. And he believes firmly that "every good and perfect gift, comes to us from the Father of Lights." I do not mean that sarcastically. Robert has a strong faith, I admire that. I just don't like when he is critical or questions another's strong faith, because it does not conform to his perspective or interpretation.As for Sabbath, I personally believe God commands, for our own good, that we routinely set aside a time to rest, refresh, and recalibrate, Literal legalists will say it has to be Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Staunch evangelicals will say its all day Sunday. Jesus modeled it multiple times daily. Eve got off course when she lost her God-consciousness. It takes a day of intimacy to get on track after six days of secular engagement, so I guess it would take and hour to get on track after six hours of "work". It might take a minute to recalibrate after six minutes of diversion.
Jesus stayed in an attitude of prayer and broke to engage in the world for a while before resetting his undivided attention on His Father. Don't push passed the 6 to 1 ratio or you will be vulnerable to material peril.
"Walk with God." Which is, I confess, to say, "Do as I say, not as I do." That's my nickel in the jar.
A day off is a wonderful thing. A day at church isn't necessarily a day off. Hmmm? God will sort it out later. I resolve to finish up projects this year. Soooo many.
A sabbath rest is hard-wired into us from our Father and Creator. But is worshipping and resting being combined a human construct? I rest every day in Jesus Christ. I also take a weekend day to rest from my work. Having a church tell me I must be in a certain building on a certain day at a certain time seems to be more human than biblical. Yes, I go to church. My wife works for one. But legalism is nauseating and I try to separate God's commands from man's commands.
Just my two cents.
Good thread, Essy, because it brings out the vital distinction between faith and religion. I know people who seem to have great faith who aren't very religious, and I know people who are very religious and exhibit shallow faith. The Bible is replete with examples of people who strive to do good pitted against those who long to be holy. I AM is a state of being. God didn't say He is the great I DO or the great I HAVE or the great I KNOW. "Be ye holy, for I AM holy," reflect a good image wouldn't you say? Thanks for the topic, Essy. Please let us know where the Lord is leading you in your pursuit.
Although: there used to be a temple and sacrifices. We no longer have either. A day of rest is wonderful - but we are religious 7 days a week. No dead animals required.
"He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks." Rom.14:6
Laurette wrote: ""He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he th..."Thanks Laurette. Appropriate for this thread. And, the group active on this community discussion site really needs to digest this Scripture. Thanks for tossing the bread of "life" onto the water. It won't return void. Those who need it will find it. Now, how about a little more grace and mutual acceptance, guys?
Eric - I accept Robert D. for precisely who he is. Of course, that is the problem. I don't begrudge him grace though, provided he has earned it. He doesn't show me the same courtesy. Nice effort at peacekeeping, Eric, at least one of us follows the beatitudes!
I can't stop chuckling, Robert C. You are the most judgmental, broad-stroking, and rude person on these strings. Robert D. has never launched an ad hominem attack on you, but you have on countless occasions done so to him and others. Do you even read what you write?
At this point I think we all have issues and agendas. Our goal here should be to better understand them and apply our learning to ministry.
What we see here is only a small portion of what we'll deal with when chatting with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Charismatics, moonies, Wiccans, atheists, humanists, and worse: Presbyterians and Baptists AND Catholics.
Chat and learn about ourselves.
This is great. The old proverb tells us, "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Let's say we will all commit to:1. Let the Lord use us to help each other grow. (i.e. constructive criticism and honest debate of issues.)
2. Deny the devil opportunities to use us to hurt. (attacks on personal convictions, understanding, and interpretation of Scripture.)
3. Turn the other cheek when someone of low degree does not comply. (I've seen so far no one scores with low blows, in fact I see everyone I've come to respect take points away for it.)
4. Not cast our pearls before swine. (ignore offensive remarks, not reply, and move on - which will effectively burn offenders.)
By elevating the discourse we will attract and enjoy better discussion. Thanks all.
Half joking, I give it eleven hours.
Thanks for your thoughts, guys.
Eric, I like your message. We are all one in Christ. Even the weakest saint has fellowship and oneness with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ (I John 1:3-4).
Jesus IS our Sabbath Rest!Matthew 11:28 - "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest ."
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What GREATER Rest is there?
Galatians 2:20 - " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me..."
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The LAST time the word for Sabbath Day is used in the Bible.
Colossians 2:16-17
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day .
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality , however, is found in Christ .
I wrote a brief Bible study on the Sabbath and Jesus being the fulfillment of this Law.If anyone is interested, here are the links...
...brief PDF file: http://www.christ-like.net/sitebuilde...
...YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIM9w...
Robert how do you think we should apply the sabbath today
Rod wrote: "Robert how do you think we should apply the sabbath today"Galatians 2:20 - " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me..."
To me, Jesus is my Sabbath Rest in the same way as He is my Passover Lamb and my once for all sacrifice.
Rod wrote: "Robert how do you think we should apply the sabbath today"Hebrews chapter 4 is another great place to see Jesus as our Sabbath Rest.
You say that: Jesus IS our Sabbath. We are resting in him.Awesomely wonderful. Why do so few Christians enjoy this throughout history?
Rod wrote: "You say that: Jesus IS our Sabbath. We are resting in him.Awesomely wonderful. Why do so few Christians enjoy this throughout history?"
Because they don't take up their crosses daily... they don't strive to enter that rest (Hebrews 4:11)
Eric wrote: "This is great. The old proverb tells us, "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Let's say we will all commit to:1. Let the Lord use us to help each other grow. (i.e. constructive cr..."
Hi Eric, I'll go for that. Blessings.
Robert wrote: "Jesus IS our Sabbath Rest!Matthew 11:28 - "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and
I will give you rest
."Excellent points. I love Matthew 11:28, in our discipleship training we do a lesson about the yoke. 28-30 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." In that day they knew what Jesus meant. When the oxen plowed the field they had a yoke around their neck, and the experienced ox would train the younger ox to plow the field. They also were attached to the yoke. If the young ox ran ahead of the lead ox all the weight fell on his shoulders, and if the young ox lagged behind all the weight fell on his shoulders. If he stayed in step with the lead ox then the lead ox carried all the weight. So if we are feeling heavy burdened we need to ask ourselves are we running ahead of Jesus or lagging behind. This is where we find rest, rest for our souls. Blessings
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What GREATER Rest is there?
Galati..."
Wade - Robert D. seems able to defend himself without you perpetually watching his six. Do you have any thoughts of your own or are you just the water boy?
Robert wrote: "Wade - Robert D. seems able to defend himself without you perpetually watching his six. Do you have any thoughts of your own or are you just the water boy?"My response: Wade is right... YOU ARE RUDE.
Robert wrote: "Wade - Robert D. seems able to defend himself without you perpetually watching his six. Do you have any thoughts of your own or are you just the water boy?"That was mean.
Hey, I gave it eleven hours and you guys lasted almost thirty-five. That gives me hope for our little group.
Eric wrote: "Hey, I gave it eleven hours and you guys lasted almost thirty-five. That gives me hope for our little group."I haven't responded yet.
I posted a new discussion, my first, and I put it on the café board, maybe that wasn't the right place for it. Probably should have put it here but then since the peace only lasted thirty five minutes maybe not. lol
Guys - if you want political correctness, go to the Democratic Party website. Here we pursue the unvarnished truth even if a few feathers get ruffled.
Robert wrote: "Guys - if you want political correctness, go to the Democratic Party website. Here we pursue the unvarnished truth even if a few feathers get ruffled."____________________________
Jesus said God's Word is TRUTH!
John 17:17 - "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth ."
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Jesus identifies most of the Old Testament as the Word of God!
Luke 24:44-45
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses , and in the prophets , and in the psalms , concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures ,
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One must know what TRUTH is... before one can pursue it!
Robert - I'm afraid the Bible is rather MIA on scientific matters. Of course, that suits cultists just fine as nothing they adhere to has any technical application anyway.
Robert wrote: "Robert - I'm afraid the Bible is rather MIA on scientific matters. Of course, that suits cultists just fine as nothing they adhere to has any technical application anyway."My response: I could not care less about your OPINIONS of the Word of God.
Romans 3:4 - "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar ..."
Robert wrote: "Robert - I'm afraid the Bible is rather MIA on scientific matters. Of course, that suits cultists just fine as nothing they adhere to has any technical application anyway."If Jesus says something is true... and you say He is wrong... I know Who I plan to believe!
Depends on how you reduce the term: science.I know car mechanics who are 10x the scientists of university professors. One group actually uses the scientific method in a material reality for the betterment of humanity--- while the other group just flings propaganda literature at young gullible minds.
The Bible is full of scientific clues. God is just careful not to reveal too much enlightenment to the monkeys throwing Poo at each other.
Rod wrote: "The Bible is full of scientific clues. God is just careful not to reveal too much enlightenment to the monkeys throwing Poo at each other."Hilarious! As long as I don't take you too seriously. I enjoy your cynicism but I have an undergraduate degree in biology and I happen to think the Bible is full of very sound science. Sorry it's above you and your mechanic friends. Just kidding! My pop was a mechanic and he was one of the most logical, intelligent, pragmatic men I was ever blessed to know. That's why I can joke about that.
Yes, the bible has sound science - but it speaks very little of radio waves and compression as well as frequencies: God didn't want us torturing each other with A.M. Radio till the last century of the demise of man. He's a good God.
Well in the midst of this conversation since it is off topic anyway, I am glad for 1Cor.1:26-29 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."
Laurette- as a geneticist, I consider the unraveling of the Double Helix and the resultant unlocking of the mystery of life's blueprint for existence the greatest discovery in the history of mankind. It's complexity (impossible to be attained by a random swirling of chemicals) is also a great proof for the existence of God. Our Maker intended those with the aptitude for such things to bring this incredible knowledge to the world that it might be used for the advancement of medical and social understanding thus glorifying God. Your ministerial service is appreciated, but you need no exceptional aptitude for the field - anyone who can read and speak with reasonable clarity can do it. Science at it's peak is rarified air only visited by a few with unrivaled exceptionalities. Condemning their achievements is like fat, ugly, barely literate liberal women condemning the first lady who speaks 5 languages for having a slight accent when speaking English and looking out of this world dazzling.
Portions of science never seem to reach a peak. This is the crap that gets thrown against the wall of Christianity.But in many circles: the term "science" is sacred. Some cows should be eaten.
Rod - and I suppose today's Christianity is at it's peak!
About the same ratio. Lots of propaganda and little substance. Thankfully we have just enough good science and good Christianity to sustain us a few more years.
Ha! Ha! Science, fortunately, will never peak out. The minute you hit the pinnacle is the moment you go moribund. Being 71 today, I know that from personal experience!
I believe as Christians we are no longer under Mosaic law and have the freedom in Christ to work on Saturday (or Sunday) and that we are not sinning when we do so. However, as one of my New Years resolutions I'm trying to get fit and I keep coming across scientific research that essentially says our bodies are designed to rest and have one day off during the week so that our bodies can recover. I KNOW rest was a big reason why God commanded the Israelites to practice the Sabbath in the first place. And I know God wants us to take care of our bodies. But even though we don't have to practice the Sabbath as Israel did in ancient times, does God still want us to practice our own form of a rest day during the week? Would we still be displeasing God if we worked all throughout the week without a day off based upon the fact that we are not taking care of our bodies? I mean, technically we're not under the Mosaic Law and don't need to follow it (not the moral stuff but the ceremony, ritual, and law aspects), but couldn't we still displease God based upon other reasons? I think you get the gist.
These are just questions I've been wrestling with and I wanted to know your guys' thoughts. Oh yeah, out of curiosity, what are y'all's New Year resolutions? I'd love to hear about them.