21st Century Literature discussion
2018 Book Discussions
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In the Cafe of Lost Youth - opener (Feb 2018)
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This has been my first Modiano. I think you are right, Clarke, that it needs two readings. Maybe more, but definitely two as I think it will be a very different book on second reading.I've written an initial review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
But I do plan to go back to it in a few days and read it again. Fortunately, it only takes a couple of hours to read, so it's not a major commitment to say that. I'll have a think about the questions on second reading.
PS I liked it!
Neil wrote: "This has been my first Modiano. I think you are right, Clarke, that it needs two readings. Maybe more, but definitely two as I think it will be a very different book on second reading.I've writte..."
Neil, I see in your review that you suspect a knowledge of Paris neighborhoods is important. I think so, too. Although my knowledge of Paris is limited (I've visited 4 times), there were two references that meant something. One was the Cafe is near the Odeon Metro. I stayed there on last trip. Odeon is in Rive Gauche, with opera house and many cafes, a bohemian section, as I recall also not far from Notre Dame, etc. The other reference is to La Pergola, where Mocellini hung out, which annexed to Pigalle. Pigalle is or was a red-light district, and is also home to the Moulin Rouge, where Jacqueline's mother worked.
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Clarke - yes - I think knowing Paris isn’t especially about knowing WHERE all the places are but more about knowing WHAT they are because the book is so much about mood and atmosphere so knowing the environment adds to that. I think it works without that extra knowledge, but knowing the places probably adds something.
All your comments have made me anxious to get to this. Just a few pages of something else to finish, then I'm on to it. First Modiano for me.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
https://www.worldliteraturetoday.org/...
https://www.nyjournalofbooks.com/book...
http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/20...
and an interview with Modiano:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
Hugh wrote: "A few reviews:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
https://www.worldliteraturetoday.o..."
I loved that interview which I read when I read this novel last fall. It explained much.
I'll be interested to read everyone's comments when you finish. I had high hopes for, but was underwhelmed by, Cafe, but determined to look for another Modiano novel.
I started reading (for the first time) today. I'm intrigued to hear that a second reading may be in order, which I'm guessing means that there will be some sort of twist or revelation at the end. I'm looking forward to finishing, and then doing a second read through. I agree, its been a fast read so far, so a second read won't be too much to ask.
I should be starting this in a few days. Looking forward to it--I read Rue des boutiques obscures a few years ago, and it left an impression, though not a lot of specifics. I've been wanting to read that one again, plus something else of his. I was glad to see this one get picked
Sue, don’t get your hopes up regarding a twist. It is more that the pieces fit together as you read so a second reading will reveal a lot more detail because you have made connections.
This was my second Modiano. My first was Missing Person, which I enjoyed more than this book. I agree that having a feel for Paris neighborhoods would have helped with the understanding of this book. I suspect that a reread would be of value but I doubt I will do that, as I was not particularly drawn to any of the characters in this book.
And In the Café of Lost Youth is my first experience of reading Modiano. I'm impressed by how rapidly Modiano draws me into the novel and how effectively he sets me into the café: it feels like a rare gift, this.
I really enjoyed the first section, by the engineering student. I can't really pinpoint what I like about it--I've read one other Modiano, and that, together with some of the comments here, prepared me to just 'let go' I guess, and not try to impose a structure on it that may not be there. I can easily see why some have recommended reading it twice.
Bryan wrote: "I really enjoyed the first section, by the engineering student. I can't really pinpoint what I like about it--I've read one other Modiano, and that, together with some of the comments here, prepare..."what was the point of bowing (and his friends at other cafes) recording the people at each cafe? what was it that was interesting about louki?
Dianne wrote: "what was the point of bowing (and his friends at other cafes) recording the people at each cafe?..."I could only offer some guesses. Bowing had this theory about fixed points--if I understood it right, it had to do with people circulating and being drawn to certain places like butterflies circling a lamp. Given that these people are the jeunesses perdus, I think it's an effort, but a useless one (although apropos, given their bohemian, flighty lives) to isolate some kind of order or structure around them. I can kind of imagine this: sort of like being around a few pleasantly intoxicated people (as opposed to unpleasantly intoxicated) who are having fun discussing odd synchronicities they've experienced. A semi-serious search for patterns, for underlying rules or currents that might direct our lives, or at least seem have an effect on them.
As far as the interest in Louki, my guess would be that she seems mysterious to them. I kind of get the feeling that this crowd is kind of pretentious, a bit loud, and I think they sense in her some of the reality they are pretending toward.
I appreciate your discussion of the fixed points theory, Bryan. People do this in lots of weird ways, and I guess we tend to be attracted to these synchronicities (the six degrees of Kevin Bacon is similar). They give us a feeling of connection too.Like you said above, there is something about the atmosphere of this that I like. I wasn't sure at first, but after finishing the first chapter I'm taken with it.
Kathleen wrote: " (the six degrees of Kevin Bacon is similar)..."Right. Doesn't that kind of seem what the book is about, in a very diaphanous way--a search for connections, patterns? It's as if, for whatever reason, the concrete realities of life aren't convincing enough, so there's an escape toward irrational or guessed at solutions--the notebook, spiritualism, washing up on the shore of this café, so to speak, looking for camaraderie. A longing to satisfy a deeply felt need, but one that is hard to put a voice to?
Those are just some impressions I've had--I'm a little more than halfway through--the section where Louki takes over the narration makes this seem even more palpable.
Dan wrote: "And In the Café of Lost Youth is my first experience of reading Modiano. I'm impressed by how rapidly Modiano draws me into the novel and how effectively he sets me into the café: it feels like a r..."Likewise, first Modiano. I was surprised when the narrator changed with the second chapter, especially who picked up the baton (pen). I am expecting something like Julio Cortázar's Hopscotch. We'll see how far off base I'll be. I haven't read the reviews; think I'll wait since the book is short.
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Hugh wrote: "Any resemblance to Hopscotch is very superficial. They do share a setting in Bohemian 1950s Paris but Cortazar is much bolder, more experimental and more playful..."100% agree. Well said.
Not to mention Hopscotch is a LOT longer!I'd like to bring up the issue of the writers/artists in the book. It's curious that one of the first ones we meet, "The Jaguar," has that nickname, and is associated with the shady lawyer, Mocellini, whom Jacqueline comes to hate for unknown reasons.
She herself claims at one point to be a student of , was it Asian languages? And she's drawn to the oracular figure Guy de Vere. I'm never sure how seriously we are to take Guy de Vere. In Roland's section, after Jacqueline is gone, he seems nice enough and very solicitous of Roland, but one wonders if this isn't self-interested, someone cultivating his audience. Both Roland and Jacqueline were his greatest devotees back in the day.
Then we have the theater artist, "Bob Storms." This guy I definitely do NOT trust. Remember, he gives Roland the key to his home in, where was it, Majorca?? (I forget.) He wants Roland to bring Louki and visit him, once they are through chanting "Hop, Signor!" What a phony!
In sum, the novel does not convey a very positive image of the artist/intellectual/writer, does it?
You all sent me to wondering about Julio Cortázar relative to the Nobel Prize. I haven't found much, at least yet, but I did find this rather rambling set of posts about influential writers that have not received the Nobel: https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-gre...What I am still looking for is a site that shows writers who received nominations and when they received them. I know I have seen such a site in the past, but am not pulling it up today. As I recall, a few years ago the rules changed and the Nobel committee(s?) began to release the names of those nominated as well as those who won. As I recall, there were further constraints -- definitely, after X-number years, also, perhaps more than one nomination, ....
I haven't read anything else of Modiano, but I did find myself going to look for his bio, something I don't automatically do about an author. I found the information indicated that much of his work has had to do with exploration of identity.
Certainly, I felt that was what ITCOLY was about -- how does an individual create and sustain an identity (view spoiler)
As I read the book, I was reminded also of Eliot's poem The Wasteland as well as other stories of what it was like to live in Paris in the aftermath of two world wars, during one of which the city was occupied by enemy forces. All of that is an aspect buried in the persona of Paris that I'm not sure I've ever stopped to think about very much, except perhaps prodded or under-girded by a few reads through the years.
I guess I think about it now as I consider what was the U.S. really prior to its Civil War? What will it be like twenty years after its present Presidency?
In a way, Louki and her associates are entirely independent of the milieu in which they move and struggle and live. In other ways, they feel as if drowned by it.
Clarke wrote: "In sum, the novel does not convey a very positive image of the artist/intellectual/writer, does it?..."At least at that time in place and history?
Is Modiano asking the same about himself in what seems at times almost like a personal little essay?
Lily wrote: "In a way, Louki and her associates are entirely independent of the milieu in which they move and struggle and live. In other ways, they feel as if drowned by it."Lily, that's a very helpful insight. Thanks.
Hugh wrote: "A few reviews:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
https://www.worldliteraturetoday.o..."
Wonderful set of reviews, Hugh, including the interview by his translator! Thanks. But I am glad I waited until after reading the book to peruse them.
Clarke wrote: "6) "Lost Horizon," "Sister of the Void," "Neutral Zones" motifs, etc...."From the review by Chris Clarke: Roland touches on Nietzsche’s essay on the Eternal Return.
The allusion goes over my head -- I don't know Nietzsche that well.
http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/20...
Dan wrote: "Lily wrote: "In a way, Louki and her associates are entirely independent of the milieu in which they move and struggle and live. In other ways, they feel as if drowned by it."Lily, that's a very ..."
Thanks, Dan.
This comment from another Goodreads review is helpful to me (BRS, on NYRB Classics board): "She's a character who is very fragmented but very real. It's also an interesting look at how we remember, forget, and invent when looking back at the past."
Are we to presume that the Lost Horizon Louki carries is the 1933 novel by James Hilton that is considered as the origin of Shangri-La?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Ho...
From Trevor, on the NYRB Classics board: "...The novel, which includes vignettes of a number of historical figures and is inspired in part by the circle (depicted in the photographs of Ed van der Elsken) of the notorious and charismatic Guy Debord, centers on the enigmatic, waiflike figure of Louki, who catches everyone’s attention even as she eludes possession or comprehension...."Here is a link to the work of Ed van der Elsken:
https://timeline.edvanderelsken.amste...
I noted especially the work of the 1950's.
A couple of links related to Guy Debord:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Debord
I am in the process of that second read Clarke recommends. I get a sense this is a book that could stand up to another read in six months to a year. Haunting.
(DK's Guide to Paris might be a fair reference to have around on a re-read. I used its maps on another Paris exercise a year or two ago, didn't have one around for this read -- it was excellent in laying out the areas of the city, but I suspect one would need sensitivity to some changes over the last half century. Of course, nothing like "knowing" the City itself.)
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Hugh wrote: "Thanks for moderating this one Clarke"It was fun. Thanks to Lily for the Guy DeBord links.
I'm sorry I sold my copy of Lost Horizon without reading it.
(Started it and didn't like.)
Clarke wrote: "It was fun. Thanks to Lily for the Guy DeBord links. I'm sorry I sold my copy of Lost Horizon without reading it.(Started it and didn't like.) "
I wish the month were starting instead of ending. I have so many questions. Like last night-this morning I couldn't/haven't figured out who is the Blémant that links Caisley to Bernolle?
Is this the allusion to Ed van der Elsken: p 20: "Sure, he knew the fellow who had taken photos at the Condé some time ago. He [Caisley?] intended to publish them in a book that would be titled A Cafe in Paris."?
Lily wrote: "I wish the month were starting instead of ending."Thank you for the research and interesting links, Lily. I've added several other Modianos to my waiting-to-read piles.
Any interest in asking Trevor to add a Patrick Modiano thread to the Author folder on the Mookse and Gripes GR site?
Dan wrote: "Any interest in asking Trevor to add a Patrick Modiano thread to the Author folder on the Mookse and Gripes GR site? .."Glad if you enjoyed the links, Dan. These ... erudite writers (Coetzee, Modiano, Aristotle) are driving me up a wall right now. Their allusions feel too elusive. I did enjoy the photography of EVDE and am going to call it to the attention of some others by email. I had not known him or his work. But I still haven't quite fit Guy DeBord into ITCOLY.... (view spoiler)
I wonder how many of the other books mentioned are "real" books. I'm not sure I'm curious enough to investigate them all, if any. But Shangri-La hit a such cord of relevance to the story.
I am not a member of the Mookse and Gripes site nor have I looked at it long enough to know how it functions, Dan. I got to Trevor's entry by some sort of link about ITCOLY. Don't always succeed, but do try to acknowledge sources. If you have better connections to that site or its members than I, please go ahead.
Well, some clues on Guy DeBord here:https://thetranslatedworld.wordpress....
"The milieu in which the 2014 Nobel laureate sets his story is loosely based on the circle around the Marxist author and film maker Guy Debord who coined the phrase that gave the book its title and whose enduring claim to fame is to be the founder of the 'Situationist' movement which greatly influenced the 1968 student rebellion. While this might add an additional level of interest for readers with a deeper interest and knowledge than mine in French post-war literature, the appearance of actual thinkers and writers of the time thinly disguised as fictional characters is not at the centre of the book’s plot. Instead, In the Café of Lost Youth focuses on characters on the margin of the group, a senior school student, an aspiring writer, presumably Modiano’s alter ego, among them."
I had missed that the opening epigraph that provided the book's name was from DeBord!
Another review that might be of interest:https://aux.avclub.com/nobel-laureate...
An excerpt, but the whole thing isn't much longer:(view spoiler)
https://www.nyrb.com/products/in-the-...Another review with perhaps an insight or two -- and a link to a discussion guide!?
Lily wrote: "https://www.nyrb.com/products/in-the-...Another review with perhaps an insight or two -- and a link to a discussion guide!?"
And thanks yet again. I just inquired about adding a Modiano thread to the M&G GR group. I'll keep you posted here.
21st Century Literature
Books mentioned in this topic
The Waste Land, Prufrock and Other Poems (other topics)Hopscotch (other topics)
Missing Person (other topics)
Rue des Boutiques Obscures (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Sara Baume (other topics)Julio Cortázar (other topics)
To start the discussion, I'd make the following foundational suggestions:
1) If at all possible, and you feel so inclined, read the book twice.
2) We might discuss how each of the 4 narrators contributes to a distinct impression of the subject, and what results from these multiple impressions.
3) Bearing in mind that all the characters have 2 or 3 names, and considering what this may mean in terms of the suggestive themes of the book, which of Jacqueline/Louki's names seems most appropriate to you? Do you suspect that this book is as much about the reader's choices as about anything else?
4) Consider, as a touchstone, this line from p. 36: "Every detail, no matter how trivial it may seem, is telling." This tale is a mystery. But it has definite clues!
5) What does the outline of the facts suggest to you about the life this young woman led?
6) "Lost Horizon," "Sister of the Void," "Neutral Zones" motifs, etc.
Other suggestions welcome. It's your turn now.