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How much description is too much or too little?
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So I write historical fiction, not fantasy. But I once had a mentor that said that world building on historical (especially from foreign cultures) is nearly as tricky as fantasy. He said that you have to describe things in detail and maybe even softly revisit that description a couple more times a little further into the story until it becomes established to the readers. BUT, he said that the most important rule is to only describe those things that are pivotal to the story. This is for everything; scenery, new concepts, new terms, and especially back story. Keep it crazy simple in the start and then pace yourself as you unravel everything else throughout the remainder of the story. So often we try to world build right at the front and it should be more like a small, steady, nine course meal. :)
I write Christian fiction, but last year I published a fairytale for middle-grade age children. That was exciting and different. I've learned to never start the first chapter with describing the weather or any climate. Back story all up front is bad too. I agree with Amie with her comment of building up the info/description a little at a time. Too much info upfront is well, TMI. Think of Lego blocks. And, sprinkle the appropriate description to move the story along appropriately. Good luck.
When I read the heading my mind went right to that old chestnut: Q: How long should a person's legs be? A: Long enough to reach the ground.To my mind, the question really doesn't have an answer. Yes, it's certainly a balancing act, and there are many variables at play, but any answer you try to give, someone will come along with a counter-example. Even the (very good) advice about not starting with description and sprinkling it in a bit at a time can be broken if done effectively.
And that's the key IMO. Rather than focus on too much/too little, try looking at what works/what doesn't work. The real goal is to keep the reader engaged, so look at what does or doesn't do that.
I believe you can absolutely start with a page of description if it succeeds in engaging the reader. The reason we are advised against starting with description is that keeping the reader engaged with nothing but description is hard to do well. So as a rule of thumb it's handy to keep us from straying into a minefield, but just once in a while the best option is to walk through that minefield. But do so knowing the risks.
OK, that's not very helpful to the original question. Here's a few more specific suggestions:
- Include details with a purpose. e.g. Is this piece of description important for the reader to know? Does it help establish context or mood? Skip anything that has no clear purpose.
- Make it interesting. Is it something that lies outside the reader's usual range of experience? Is it opening their eyes to something new, or making them think about something ordinary in a new way?
- Relate it to the character in some way. Why would this character notice that detail? Is it important to them? Does it bring back a memory? Does it reflect their mood?
The more you can relate description to the story, the less it becomes description and the more it becomes part of the fabric of the reading experience.
It depends on how fast or slow you want your story to be. If you want an action packed book then describe what is important for the scene so the reader can still get a good picture of everything is going on.In the end its all up to you.
Outside in or inside out. You build the scene from a character's discovery or from circumstances to characters. Enough description is just that. Enough. A travelogue even of a cave of wonders gets old after a bit.
I tend to support the other Ian. It is important to include enough early enough that the description should been the person's mind before the key act takes place. If you add a key descriptive fact just when needed it looks to the reader as if this was put in as an "escape" for the author - sort of like deus ex machina. Key features should not come as a surprise. On the other hand, the last thing you need is a dump because description does tend to slow everything down. Again, slowing down is not bad at times. There are times you have to relieve the pace so you can build it up again, and I think that is the time to add description, and that necessary for the next scene.However, I am a bit of a minimalist when it comes to description. I guess it depends on how well it fits in, but in my opinion, if in doubt, leave it out.
W. wrote: "A travelogue even of a cave of wonders gets old after a bit."Agreed, which is why I prefer to focus on the measure "if it engages the reader". A cave of wonders on its own is not likely to be sufficient. If you really do need to explore that cave, then ask yourself what will keep the reader along for the ride.
Amie wrote: "So I write historical fiction, not fantasy. But I once had a mentor that said that world building on historical (especially from foreign cultures) is nearly as tricky as fantasy. He said that you h..."I couldn't have said it better myself. I write fiction (currently YA, but adult in the future) and so many times I find myself trying to rebuild what I've already mentioned in the past when I just need to mention tidbits about it rather than re-explaining every last detail. Sometimes the over-descriptive folk, like myself, feel that every last bit of the scene needs be shown when in reality, it really doesn't. Simplifying is key! I think it's something every writer needs to work on whether they realize it or not.
Amie wrote: "So I write historical fiction, not fantasy. But I once had a mentor that said that world building on historical (especially from foreign cultures) is nearly as tricky as fantasy. He said that you h..."I think it's up to the reader to decide how much description they want to read. I write historical fiction as well (on my third book) and tend to describe the dress of the characters in the beginning to give the readers a picture in the minds eye of Victorian dress for instance. I do this with transport, carriages, sailing ships and horses. I also give a short description of the locations mentioned in the book, and there are a few, but then apart from one or two I have been fortunate enough to have visited every location mentioned in my novel. I've been to museums to see the clothes and carriages, I am a horse rider, and I have been on three 19th century sailing ships and sailed on a yacht to get a feel for the life. All of the above, I think were important to my story.
I think at times certain segments of the story could be descriptive to draw in the reader, while other sections could be left up to the reader's imagination, only to be truly discovered later in the novel. I think, if the author is unsure that any part of the writing is not descriptive enough, then the scene needs to be painted in further detail, and the opposite is likewise true for too much detail.
Mod
Let's refrain from complaining about books we didn't enjoy. What may have too much detail for one reader may lack detail for another. Let's stick to talking about our own books. Thanks.
I think it is worth noting you are never going to please everyone. I tend to skim through details that I consider irrelevant, so I write so as not to impose too much description on riders of my books. I think the most important description is that where, in the not too distant future (in terms of pages) some action will take place. I don't want to introduce description into an action scene where I want pace and tension. My other major use of description is to enhance mood, and this is particularly useful (in my opinion) when there is continuing action but nothing much is happening. One example from my writing was crossing the surface of Miranda (an icy moon of Uranus with massive chasms, and little gravity.) The piton was the size of a safety pin, and fishing line was used to rope the climber. Others may disagree, but I felt that was sufficiently unusual to be worth describing because it illustrated the alienness of the place.Regarding scene setting for action, one thing not discussed much so far is how to do it? One of my approaches is to try conversation. Thus someone saying, "That stream is in flood and is too turbulent to cross," actually says quite a bit about the local conditions. At least I think so. What do others think?
Thanks so much everyone. To sum things up, I believe the following are the main general points I picked up:-Estimate based on your genre and target audience
-Estimate based on your character's perspective
-Estimate based on the pacing of that part of the story.
So it seems like there's no "one size fits all" kind of thing when it comes to description length. I'll continue to learn and improve myself.
Thank you, everyone!
I think it depends on your style. If you can't trust your own gut, maybe get a trusty test reader to give you some honest feedback.Also, some readers (myself included) love clever language in novels and poetic imagery, others just want a fast-paced read. You can't please all the people all the time, unfortunately...
Does your prose "flow" when you're reading it back to yourself? If so, you're probably doing a good job.
Extremely valid comments from others on this thread, too. If a character's running from danger, they're probably not going to be noticing every blade of grass...
Are we talking Amazon description? Because Experts say that it should be a certain length, contain certain style and really use keywords to pull a reader in. It should catch a reader with a powerful hook at the beginning, be solid and contain enough so the see more part doesn't cut it off then you build off that.
Justin wrote: "Are we talking Amazon description? Because Experts say that it should be a certain length, contain certain style and really use keywords to pull a reader in. It should catch a reader with a powerfu..."No, we're talking about how much/little description to include the the text of the story - e.g. people, setting, surroundings etc.
Oh okay well then I think it depends on what it is your describing. Some things need only a little description while others need a vast amount of it so you really get a vivid sense of imagery.
Alex wrote: "I think it depends on your style. If you can't trust your own gut, maybe get a trusty test reader to give you some honest feedback.Also, some readers (myself included) love clever language in nove..."
Agreed. I noticed that gap between "poetry" and "pace" among readers too. So you're right, we can't please everyone. I guess these kinds of things more wisdom than just a simple do's and don'ts.
That bit about describing every grass is funny though! Anyways, thanks for the input
No worries. And that's just my sardonic mind at work... My colleagues wince every time they receive one of my e-mails...
Mod
Again, let's focus on our own work and what we do. This is not the forum to complain about what other writers do. As writers we need to understand that we're not all going to write the same. Another writer may not write the way you do, but his or her readers just might like the way he or she does things. We're here to support, not to criticize.
Mod
I like to add a good deal of description to my work as everything in the story can add to the flavor of the story. The weather, the sounds, the smells, the landscape, the interiors of buildings, vehicles, tools, etc. can all be used to develop a full picture. I try to zip back and forth between descriptions, action, and dialogue, never lingering on any of them for too long. I don't write fantasy (yet). I write general fiction. Yet, I have read some fantasy that is the same pace I try for.
I think also it depends on how good you feel you are at it. If it breaks your style, or your voice, it may be better to keep it to a minimum.
Mod
I try to write as naturally as I can. If I feel I want to describe it, and I think I can get an emotional response from the description, I do. Later, as Dwayne said, when editing, I might change my mind, but not often. The difficult ones I have found are describing the terrain for a prolonged action sequence. I think it is very bad to introduce things that affect the action as when needed, because it seems to be more like deus ex machina, but a long description of terrain before things start runs the risk of being boring. I have found the best way (for me) to do this is to get in the mind of the protagonist as he (she) views the terrain, and maybe even discuss this with someone else as they are looking, on the grounds that a little conversation breaks up the description, and gets in a second point of view.
Awesome Discussion Thread.I agree with you Dwayne that - "You can show your work to readers and get some feedback. You can study works in your genre that are similar to what you're doing. Bottom line, it's up to you as to where you put the balance between action and description"
Getting feedback helps a long way, its up to us if we wanna use it to sculpt our work or recreate something new from their feedback.
:-)
I try to start off with a character in a situation, then slowly fill the reader in on how the situation came about. I think I read once in The Art of Fiction that the writer should grab the reader’s interest early, then reveal enough pertinent facts to keep the reader engaged. Recently, I’ve been working on multiple stories involving the same set of characters, so I’ll describe a situation in one story that doesn’t fully manifest itself until a later story. With prose, of course, there’s much more room for exposition than with scripted drama, and exposition in a story is a good way to condense a lot of info into a few paragraphs. I try to keep descriptions short and concise, and leave something to the reader’s imagination. I give just enough details to allow a reader to recognize a character, but, for instance, I’ll describe a character as “tall” rather than 6’ 10” and let the reader fill in the blanks.
I write just enough description to set the mood of a scene but not to slow down the pacing and the action. In other words, I try to avoid a lot of unnecessary and boring details.
Putting my readers hat on... I am a voracious reader (and only a half hearted writer) - so here are my reader opinions.
It depends on the genre. I expect more description when I read fantasy because I expect world building. That is part of the fun.
Once description is established, I also appreciate it when an author will add a few words of description here or there to remind me of the world. This doesn't need whole paragraphs, but a few words or a sentence or two is not a problem as long as it's strategically placed (i.e. not in the middle of the action).
Setting each scene adds to any story and it doesn't need to include a lot of words. Just enough that things aren't happening in a vacuum.
It depends on the genre. I expect more description when I read fantasy because I expect world building. That is part of the fun.
Once description is established, I also appreciate it when an author will add a few words of description here or there to remind me of the world. This doesn't need whole paragraphs, but a few words or a sentence or two is not a problem as long as it's strategically placed (i.e. not in the middle of the action).
Setting each scene adds to any story and it doesn't need to include a lot of words. Just enough that things aren't happening in a vacuum.
Any tips you could share is greatly appreciated! Thank you!