Wizard's First Rule [Jan 22, 2018]

[Chris]

Gavin wrote: "You guys have left me in the dust! Most of you are finished and I've not even managed to get started yet. I might just bow out of this read as I can see you guys being done with the whole series by..."

I'm doing a physical read if that's how you'd like to roll bud.

[Chris]

Laura wrote: "Finished chapter 11 and I have to admit the writing seems a bit clumsy at times.
The story hovewer is very engaging and as this is a first book, I'm willing to disregard the writing style for now.
..."

I had forgotten about that part. But yeah it was funny to re read. I want going to do this series again but I got a twinkle in my eye as I viewed the whole series on my bookshelf. I'm so on board with you guys. I've read 200 pages since yesterday when I started...

[Chris]

I'm getting excited as this is a re read for me. I can't wait for characters in the future like Nathan, and Jensen, and Niki, and Verna. This is going to be fun!

[Choko]

I am so glad you are joining us!!! I enjoyed it a whole a lot so I am in for the long hall:) I am also doing it on paper since I bought them all several years ago:)

[Chris]

Choko wrote: "I am so glad you are joining us!!! I enjoyed it a whole a lot so I am in for the long hall:) I am also doing it on paper since I bought them all several years ago:)"

I was my early 20s when I read these, so it's been long enough that I don't remember the finer points to the story. I just remember the characters that stick out and i also remember why I stopped reading it. So hopefully if I do it as a group read that'll force me to push through to the end this time.

Then by Christmas I'll be able to tackle Death's Mistress with you guys.

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Choko wrote: "I am so glad you are joining us!!! I enjoyed it a whole a lot so I am in for the long hall:) I am also doing it on paper since I bought them all several years ago:)"

I was my early 2..."

Cool!!!:)

[Laura]

@ Choko - I agree with Kahlan's hormones. :D Hopefully she'll learn to control them better. :)

@ Chris - nice to have you with us my friend. It's long since we've been in a BR together. :) I'm also reading a paperback as I bought the whole series. Not sorry about the money though. It seems like a good read. :)

I just finished chapter 40 and want to finish the whole book by tonight. It started to get better and better and I am not even bothered about the writing at this point. The story is too engaging.

I loved the Chapters with Rachel and even though I know (view spoiler)[the brother is the betrayer (hide spoiler)] I am very curious to see how it will all play out.

[Laura]

I finished it 2 days back and loved it. It is true that the writing is clumsy at times and the story predictable at others but there were things I really didn't see coming. The last chapters were starting with 30 something were great. 41 and 42 were very difficult to read but intense and original. So was the end of the book. I have to say that even though I was expecting (view spoiler)[Richard and Kahlan to end up together I didn't see the way of it. That was nicely done. As well as Richard's parentage and Rachel and Scarlet. (hide spoiler)]

I will be deffinitely reading the series to the end.

[Chris]

Laura wrote: "I finished it 2 days back and loved it. It is true that the writing is clumsy at times and the story predictable at others but there were things I really didn't see coming. The last chapters were s..."

I'm glad that you're liking it Laura! I read up to Chainfire before I started to wain in my reading lustre (actually it started before that point because that's where I'd had enough). I'm hoping that by doing it as a group y'all can help me push through this and complete the series. I like his writing so far and by reading this again I realize where I get my love for Tad Williams. Terry is very similar, it's just that Tad does it better.

I'm finding that the only thing I'm having a tough time with its his small descriptions of "feelings" between Richard & Kahlan. Not necessarily towards each other but just in general. Knowing that Kahlan is the Mother Confessor, she comes off as being a little too timid, and needing Richard too much. It's great rediscovering all of these characters again though! Can't wait for the Mud People!

If you read the reviews, people always have a hate on for Terry because they say he's a woman hater. I never understood that POV because I've read a long ways into the series. Today I got to Chapter 20 right after (view spoiler)[ Darken Rahl talks with Demmin about how women are only just sexual objects with no purpose in life other than to mate with, beat up, and kill... I can see how that would cause you to lose some female readership! (hide spoiler)] However, throughout the series there are more women with positions of power than men with the same status. So, being that we're reading this with some of the ladies in our group I'd like to hear your PoV on that to see if I'm just missing something being a guy.

[Elizabeth]

Still working my way through. It's good, but so far wouldn't say it's great and it hasn't fully grabbed me yet.

[Chris]

Savidlin stepped up and hit Richard, not with an open hand as he had hit [Kahlan], but with his first. Immediately Richard unleashed a powerful blow off his own that knocked Savidlin from his feet and sent him sprawling on his back. He lay dazed on the ground with his limbs strewn awkwardly out. Fists tightened on weapons. Richard straightened, giving the men a dangerous look that kept them rooted in place.
Savidlin propped himself up on one hand, rubbing his jaw with the other. A grin spread across his face. "None has ever shown such respect for my strength! This is a wise man."

OMG that scene still made me laugh out loud! Still after having read this like 15 or so years ago, it's one of the few scenes of the first nine books that has stuck with me. Ahh nostalgia, how great you are sometimes.

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Savidlin stepped up and hit Richard, not with an open hand as he had hit [Kahlan], but with his first. Immediately Richard unleashed a powerful blow off his own that knocked Savidlin from his feet ..."

Hahahaha!!! I hope I am never respected that much by anyone:):):) Love that scene!!!

[Chris]

Choko wrote: "One thing though, I did not expect Kahlan to be so quick to cry and Richard so quick to anger... I guess I am still having difficulty separating it from the TV show..."

That's one thing that always bothered me about this first book. It's like he wrote it with extremes in mind. Darken is the most extreme opposite of Kahlan and Richard, so why shouldn't they have extreme mood swings. But in this book I think Kahlan could have been a little stronger in all aspects, but then she couldn't be the damsel in distress! lol

[Chris]

Choko wrote: "Charlie wrote: "Choko wrote: "Charlie wrote: "I'm reading this a few pages at a time on my break at work in between the other books I've got going on so i'm probably not going to finish anytime soo..."

(view spoiler)[ You've got to remember that the anger comes from the sword right? That's not his actual personality. It affects him righteously to deal with the emotional strain of killing someone or being prepared to kill someone. (hide spoiler)]

Sorry that I'm late to the party by the way, kids....

[Chris]

Iain wrote: "The segments with Denna and Scarlet were some of the best of the book for me... the Denna parts read like a completely different book, almost...

Was interesting seeing [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ Prophecy plays a large part in future books when we get introduced to Nathan Rahl, I loved his bits in the storyline. I also liked how Terry would use his dialog as a source of misdirection,
well, any prophecy really. (hide spoiler)]

[Chris]

Up to Chapter 29...

(view spoiler)[ I just finished reading about the ancestral meeting with the Mud People. I'd forgotten about the devastating attack by Rahl on the Mud People's village. That last walk through scene always bothered me. And I remember thinking that the emotions of the bird man should have been more... Broken? After having your people burned, eaten, raped, chopped, you'd think he would have had a more serious reaction, but nope, "These two need some men to guard them safely to the edge of our land." Instead of, "I'm sorry, but I can't see you off. I must console the families that have lost their loved ones due to the attack. And, try to piece the fragments of our society back together so that we can prepare for the long winter ahead. I'm glad that you have received an ancestral blessing, and I hope that, as you journey forth to the box of Oden, that you do so with a grace that will do the Mud People proud. Upon success, your tales will be told through the generations as tales of Legend." You know, something like that. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

@ Chris. - do you find this different after so many years in between reads?

Regarding the anger, from what I understood (view spoiler)[it was a part of Richard also and didn't come only from the sword. Richard had always had a short temper and his father tought him in time how to subdue his anger which in turn helped him master the sword's anger. Which made perfect sense to me considering the revelation in the end. :) (hide spoiler)]

I loved that respect scene also. :D Hope I won't ever be held in such high regard. 😁

Regarding Kahlan, I agree she should have been a bit better as a whole. Her emotions and actions were all over the place lots of times. But then Richard was no less. So I don't think the author intended to paint women in a bad manner. I've encountered a lot more cruel or teary female characters in other books. Even ones worse than Denna.
That dialogue you mentioned also seemed natural taking into account the nature of Rahl and his loyal servant. It is sort of fitting between those 2 because they are meant to be horrible people. It did make me wanna geld them! Which means Terry did a good job in painting them as dark.

The way I see it, it all comes down to writing style. To me this book was great as story line but not so good as writing style.

I'm curious to see also if I will be able to find some similarities to Tad's works later on. Perhaps after the writing improves. Right now I don't see any. To me, Tad feels elegant, prosaic and intricate, while Terry is enternaining, easy and a bit predictable. It took me close to a week to finish one of Tad's books but only 2 and a half days to finish this one. The last part of this book was addicting. :)

[Laura]

As for Kahlan's feelings, in a way I think I understand what Terry tried to tell. (view spoiler)[Kahlan was the mother confessor in her world and her existence implied being feared and shunned by everyone. She was neither respected nor loved; only feared. And after such a life she came to a place where a good looking young man put his life in danger to save hers without asking for anything in return. She met a man who offered friendship and respect, kindness and love. Any woman would be completely turned upside down in such a case. Any human being will start tearing up when he/she is offered love and kindness after a hard time. (hide spoiler)]
That is why I personally didn't mind her described emotions so much.

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Choko wrote: "One thing though, I did not expect Kahlan to be so quick to cry and Richard so quick to anger... I guess I am still having difficulty separating it from the TV show..."

That's one th..."

But that is the thing - she is a Confessor, she should be strong, not a damsel in distress!!! And in the TV series Reagan played her so well!!!

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Choko wrote: "Charlie wrote: "Choko wrote: "Charlie wrote: "I'm reading this a few pages at a time on my break at work in between the other books I've got going on so i'm probably not going to fini..."

That makes sense... This was very new to me, since I don't remember it being in the show... I am new to the books:)

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Iain wrote: "The segments with Denna and Scarlet were some of the best of the book for me... the Denna parts read like a completely different book, almost...

Was interesting seeing [spoilers remov..."

That is the beauty of the Fantasy Prophecies!!! It always seems like they are there more for misdirection than for information:):):)

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Up to Chapter 29...

[spoilers removed]"

I couldn't agree more! This was a very difficult part to read and it seemed as if more emotion was wasted on Kahlan's jealousy the night before than on all the devastation...:((((

[Choko]

Laura wrote: "@ Chris. - do you find this different after so many years in between reads?

Regarding the anger, from what I understood [spoilers removed]

I loved that respect scene also. :D Hope I won't ever be..."

I have never read anything by Tad...

[Chris]

Laura wrote: "@ Chris. - do you find this different after so many years in between reads?

Regarding the anger, from what I understood [spoilers removed]

I loved that respect scene also. :D Hope I won't ever be..."

I agree with pretty much everything that you said Laura! All I meant is that if you put the love struckness aside, when she's in her element in the Midlands and back into the role as Mother Confessor, you'd think that she'd have more confidence since that's how's she's supposed to have been raised. Trojan warriors wouldn't become wusses because they had to hang with a sexy senator all of a sudden. It just doesn't feel realistic to me is all.

Regarding the Tad Williams comparison, I don't think that I explained myself well enough to avoid being forcibly removed from the group... Terry Goodkind should be happy to be mentioned in the same sentence as Tad Williams. Regarding the micro writing styles, Tad is FAR superior. What I meant was that from reading Terry Goodkind as an introduction into the fantasy genre, since his style is epic fantasy, I believe this to be the reason why I enjoy other epic series like Tad Williams and Robin Hobb first and foremost, as opposed to say urban fantasy or high fantasy.

@ Chris. - do you find this different after so many years in between reads?

Because I remember most of the large picture, I can answer some of your questions that have been brought up so far. But they would be major spoilers from future books and I don't want to be that guy! lol SO it's nice reading your thoughts on the series, and it's nice being able to read it again with other people. When I stopped I was 9 books in. So it's also nice having to go back to the first book, essentially restarting the series, so that I can pick up the small bits of foreshadowing that Terry actually placed this early on in the story. I started reading this just after I met Anne (2005ish) in WoW. I convinced her to start reading it and I think that she made it to Pillars of the Creation #7 before dropping it (I was living with her by that time...We moved fast! lol). But with that being said, there's a lot of the finer points of the story that I didn't remember. I knew there was a dragon in the first book, I remember how Darken Rahl was able to "command" her, but I can't remember the interaction between Richard and the dragon and how he eventually frees her. So it's nice to read it over again as a refresher!

Hmm, guess I should answer the question directly. Do I find the book to be different? I suppose that I do. I mean I'm now 40 and a husband and a father to two boys. My perspective on the world and life in general is far different than it was when I was a single 27 year old college student when I first read these books. I might be picking up more on the emotional responses of the characters as they go through the terrors presented in the books. It's this reason alone that is making me weary regarding an upcoming part in one of the next two books... There's going to be a section of about 200ish pages (maybe more, it took me a long time to read initially) that is pure depression and when I first read it, I definitely had a mood change in the real world. So, it makes me wonder if this time around I'll be more jaded or fall into that same emotional trap. I hope that answers your question!

[Chris]

Choko wrote: "Laura wrote: "@ Chris. - do you find this different after so many years in between reads?

Regarding the anger, from what I understood [spoilers removed]

I loved that respect scene also. :D Hope I..."

You should! His writing skills will make you FEEL his scenes. Not feel like end of Mistborn kind of feel, but his descriptors are almost like reading poetry. The man's got some skills.

[Gavin]

Choko wrote: "I have never read anything by Tad..."

I'll cool your expectations a tiny bit by offering a different opinion on Tad Williams. I was not a fan of The Dragonbone Chair at all. I DNF'ed it after 150 pages. I thought it was super dull and that Williams was caught up in writing droning passages of description at the expense of the story. I swear there was pages and pages of The Dragonbone Chair that could pass without a single line of dialogue! I was super disappointed it flopped for me as I bought all four books in the series at the same time and ended up having to donate them to my local library pretty much unread. I think you will like Tad Williams if lengthy passages of flowery description are something you enjoy. I hate it but then I struggled with both J. R. R. Tolkien and China Mieville for the very same reason and both those guys are even more popular than Williams!

Chris wrote: "Terry Goodkind should be happy to be mentioned in the same sentence as Tad Williams. Regarding the micro writing styles, Tad is FAR superior."

I have to admit I do not see any similarities between Goodkind and Williams writing. Goodkind can tend to drone on a bit but the focus tends to be different. Less poetic description and more opinionated views on stuff in Goodkinds stories;) I can tolerate Goodkind's flaws better so I enjoy his writing more.

[Gavin]

Chris wrote: "I agree with pretty much everything that you said Laura! All I meant is that if you put the love struckness aside, when she's in her element in the Midlands and back into the role as Mother Confessor, you'd think that she'd have more confidence since that's how's she's supposed to have been raised. Trojan warriors wouldn't become wusses because they had to hang with a sexy senator all of a sudden. It just doesn't feel realistic to me is all."

I'm pretty sure this is the big reason that Goodkind is often pegged as a misogynist by his critics. He does write strong and prominent females in his books but at the end of the day they all need saving or the proper way of things explained to them by the hero!

[Choko]

Gavin wrote: "Choko wrote: "I have never read anything by Tad..."

I'll cool your expectations a tiny bit by offering a different opinion on Tad Williams. I was not a fan of The Dragonbone Chair at ..."

Hmmm... You know I am a book omnivore, so I will try his work just to see, but thank you for your learned opinion, my friend!!! :):):)

[Gavin]

Choko wrote: "Hmmm... You know I am a book omnivore, so I will try his work just to see, but thank you for your learned opinion, my friend!!! :):):) ."

Books are as subjective as music so I always encourage people to try everything for themselves. I mostly just ignore people opinions and read anything that sounds like it might be good. I just wanted to prepare you for what type of book to expect:) I find I fare better with books when I know what type of story I'm getting. Expectations play an important part in how much I enjoy a book so if I, say, get an UF when I was expecting a PNR then it can totally throw me and effect how I feel about a book. I have tons of friends who adore descriptive books like Tad or China writes so I get that tons of people love that style! Hopefully you get sucked into the writing as much as Chris did. The Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series definitely came highly recommended to me back in the day and that was why I bought all four books and then ended up so disappointed when it did not work out for me;)

[Choko]

I do better prepared as well:) Thanks, Gav! I have missed doing BR's with you!!! I am sorry you did not enjoy that series, but I guess the library was a winner:):):) I am really enjoying the Goodkind series for now though:)

[Gavin]

Choko wrote: "I do better prepared as well:) Thanks, Gav! I have missed doing BR's with you!!! I am sorry you did not enjoy that series, but I guess the library was a winner:):):) I am really enjoying the Goodki..."

I'd have joined for this SoT read but you guys were all mostly finished before I got the chance to start and then I got distracted by Warbreaker and Altered Carbon. I have a soft spot for SoT and in my younger days I loved it even more than WoT!

I've been enjoying reading everyone's thoughts on WFR:) It is early in the month so I might yet get a chance to catch up before you guys start the next one.

[Choko]

Gavin wrote: "Choko wrote: "I do better prepared as well:) Thanks, Gav! I have missed doing BR's with you!!! I am sorry you did not enjoy that series, but I guess the library was a winner:):):) I am really enjoy..."

That would be awesome!!!

[Chris]

Gavin wrote: "Choko wrote: "I have never read anything by Tad..."

I'll cool your expectations a tiny bit by offering a different opinion on Tad Williams. I was not a fan of The Dragonbone Chair at ..."

I agree with you Gavin, to an extent! The first 300 pages of Dragonbone Chair really tested my patience, but everyone told me just to push through and that once I got past his opening, I'd love the book. I did, therefore, I do. And I'm glad for that. But I like people who are different in their execution of their craft as long as it's entertaining and I found that his writing was very poetic (Tad's) while Terry is blunt like a 2x4 lol. Like I said, the only similarities is that their stories are epic in scope. And that's the only comparison I was making.

[Laura]

@Gavin - nice to have you here with us. :)

@Choko - You're gonna love "The Dragonbone Chair". True, as the boys said, the first 300 pages of book 1 are very slow concentrating on build up and slipping little tiny clues about what's to come. But that will probably not phase you as Tad is the Kay of epic fantasy! His prose is unbelievably good and amazingly expressive. The descriptions are better than any other I have ever read and the characters are fully fleshed out. You can practically see what you're reading and .... ok I'll zip it now 🤐 I know I'm raving but Tad is brilliant!!!

@Chris - 😁😁😁 I promise I won't try to kick you out (or kneecap - as Iain was insinuating I had done once to him :)) if we butt heads in future also regarding characters or plot. Scout's honour!!! :D

You should see the talks we have on other threads also. I will exemplify:
Iain: "bad Jezal, poor lady"
Shioban and me: "well done Jezal, the bitch totally had that coming!"

Bill: "Poor Phedre, bad Joscelin!"
Me: "Bad Phedre, poor Joscelin!"

both followed by a whole lot of: I'm on this side because... 😁😁😁
That's the best in a BR!

Regarding Kahlan, I stand to my previous oppinion. I don't quite blame the way she behaves for now and I'm not bothered that much about her erratic feelings. And I think I understand why Terry made her that way. Why? Because I have it from personal experience that the harder and stronger a person is, the smaller the shards are when he/she breaks. It is a lot easier for a weaker person to put himself/herself together than it is for a stronger one. It's something simillar to the higher you fly the harder you fall. Kahlan is supposed to be one of the strongest female characters in this story and she literally broke along the way. If it took her this whole book to put herself together I completely understand and accept it. If she goes on the same in the next books however, that would be another matter entirely and my oppinion will probably change.

Regarding Tad-Terry comparison - I was really wondering if Terry will be able to improve his writing so much to equal Tad. Misunderstood you. Sorry. 😊 And I completely get it that reading a series like this when you are younger would have oppened the gates for fantasy!

You didn't move that fast. :D My husband and I ended up living together after just 1 and a half months from first date. Love at first sight and all that stuff people usually don't believe. :) It came true for us. 😊We've been together ever since.

[Choko]

Same with me - the love of my life and I were together on first date and a week later we were practically living together... :):):)

[Chris]

Choko wrote: "Same with me - the love of my life and I were together on first date and a week later we were practically living together... :):):)"

Wow that's really awesome Choko!

[Choko]

Chris wrote: "Choko wrote: "Same with me - the love of my life and I were together on first date and a week later we were practically living together... :):):)"

Wow that's really awesome Choko!"

Hahah! It worked out perfectly!!