Reading the Chunksters discussion
Moby Dick
>
Moby Dick - Chapters 41-54
date
newest »
newest »
Roman Clodia wrote: "There's a very interesting allusion to Othello in chapter 41 which helps to solidify Ahab's obsession:When describing Ahab's first encounter with the whale which bites off his leg:
'No turbaned..."
Thanks so much for sharing your analysis on this Roman Clodia - very helpful!
Roman Clodia wrote: "Paula wrote: "I found other similarities between Stubb's Dream (right after Ahab called him a donkey, an ass, a mule) with Bottom's Dream in a Midsummer Night's Dream."Yes! And Bottom's dream is ..."
Isn’t bottoms dream the name of that massive chunkster recently published? Bottom's Dream
This book is bigger than a cat!
Mark wrote: "Chapter 42 The Whiteness Of The WhaleDid I miss something? It took me three days to read this chapter, and now I'm reluctant/to lazy to read it again, but something is missing, or better, somethi..."
Ahhh but IS the moon white? This could get technical:
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LR...
Chapter 44 The Chart"There it was, too, that most of the deadly encounters with the white whale had taken place; there the waves were storied with his deeds; there also was that tragic spot where the monomaniac old man had found the awful motive to his vengeance." (173)
Dianne wrote: "Chapter 42 - The Whiteness of the Whale BORING CHAPTER ALERT - This chapter is entirely about the color white, the good, the bad, the meaning of the good, the bad, or even white as the absence of..."
Boring Chapter Alert indeed! ha ha. I actually liked reading the Cetalogy chapter, which I thought was supposed to be the "boring" chapter. But turns out that this chapter 42 was the one that waited for me in testing my resolve to read Moby Dick. Still, I'm over that hump and am still slowly making my way through this week's section.
Dianne wrote: "Isn’t bottoms dream the name of that massive chunkster recently published? Bottom's DreamThis book is bigger than a cat! "
I have that massive thing sitting on my shelf right now.!
Dianne wrote: "Chapters 46-47Chapter 46 - Surmises
He we learn that Ahab has at least in the back of the mind the notion of whaling in general besides just his hell-bent intent to kill Moby Dick. He was aware ..."
I found this chapter fascinating. We see that careful, calculating, manipulative, cunning brain that governs the madness of Ahab. That heightened sense of self-preservation. That careful, devious plotting as to how to manipulate his crew. Use them, as the chapter states, use them as "tools".
"Ahab must of course have been most anxious to protect himself. That protection could only consist in his own predominating brain and heart and hand, backed by a heedful, closely calculating attention to every minute atmospheric influence which it was possible for his crew to be subjected to."
Chapter 47Dianne, thanks for posting a picture of a sword mat. I was having a hard time visualizing what it was, and my iPad wasn't near to hand at the time.
This chapter...I feel like a broken record here, but I loved it. The sense of foreshadowing by comparing the weaving of the sword mat to the "Loom of Time", where we humans mechanically weave away at our lives, perhaps thinking we have free will, but all the while, we are guided by the Fates and our future is written in stone. Powerful analogy. And then yes, the call of the sighting of the sperm whales, but then that cliff-hanger of an ending:
"But at this critical instant a sudden exclamation was heard that took every eye from the whale. With a start all glared at dark Ahab, who was surrounded by five dusky phantoms that seem fresh formed out of air."
When I read "phantoms" I was like...ooh.
I'm going to post tomorrow about Chapter 48, The First Lowering". One of my favorite chapters so far (yes, yes, I know, they are all my favorites). :)
Dianne wrote: "Do you think Peleg and bildad really understood how crazy he was?.."Sorry, Dianne, I missed this. No, I feel if they did have any inkling then they pushed it to the back of their mind. They were focussed on the commercial aspects of the voyage, it's a regular whaling trip for them, but for Ahab it's a mission of revenge.
"They were bent on profitable cruises, the profit to be counted down in dollars from the mint. He was intent on an audacious, immitigable and supernatural revenge."
That section on the Lakerman!!! It's pure awesomeness! It's in the last chapter for this section: Chapter 54. Some quotes I adore:
“But as the mind does to exist unless leagued with the soul, in Ahab’s case, yielding up all his thoughts and fancies to his one supreme purpose; that purpose, by its own sheer inveteracy of will, forced itself against gods and devils into a kind of self-assumed, independent being of its own.” (Chapter XLIV, 292)
“The vast swells of the omnipotent sea … the brief suspended agony of the boat, as it would tip for an instant on the knife-like edge of the sharper waves, that almost seemed threatening to cut it in two … not the dead man’s ghost encountering the first unknown phantom in the other world …” (Chapter XLVIII, page 324)
The Chart is also interesting, I want to read Prometheus Unbound by Shelley. But Metamorphoses by Ovid first. How awesome this myth is referenced here ^.^
Mark wrote: "Chapter 44 The Chart"There it was, too, that most of the deadly encounters with the white whale had taken place; there the waves were storied with his deeds; there also was that tragic spot where..."
the waves were storied with his deeds... it's like the saying if only these walls could talk, only the sea has seen much more I imagine!
Linda wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapter 42 - The Whiteness of the Whale BORING CHAPTER ALERT - This chapter is entirely about the color white, the good, the bad, the meaning of the good, the bad, or even white as..."
yay glad you stayed with us!
Paula wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Isn’t bottoms dream the name of that massive chunkster recently published? Bottom's DreamThis book is bigger than a cat! "
I have that massive thing sitting on my shelf right now.!"h
have you started it? It scares me.
Paula wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapters 46-47Chapter 46 - Surmises
He we learn that Ahab has at least in the back of the mind the notion of whaling in general besides just his hell-bent intent to kill Moby Dick..."
Ahab is fascinating, because he really is quite intelligent and able to control his madness. Is that really madness then? Is it possible to control madness?
Paula wrote: "Chapter 47Dianne, thanks for posting a picture of a sword mat. I was having a hard time visualizing what it was, and my iPad wasn't near to hand at the time.
This chapter...I feel like a broken ..."
Free will, ah this could be discussed endlessly. Do we really have free will? Isn't so much of an individual's life, regardless of family/economic status, etc, dependent on chance and circumstance?
Pamela wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Do you think Peleg and bildad really understood how crazy he was?.."Sorry, Dianne, I missed this. No, I feel if they did have any inkling then they pushed it to the back of their m..."
I think you are right! They probably had an idea but were not aware of the full extent of his madness.
The ending of chapter 44, the full page is amazing and how it talks about Ahab's madness. Perhaps an interesting musing when read in the context of Ahab's madness:
It's a line in the middle of chapter 44, pages 288 in my book. The Sperm Whales "guided by some infallible instinct- say, rather, secret intelligence from the Deity- mostly swim in veins, as they are called;" where they basically swim in lines with each other.
Biblio wrote: "The ending of chapter 44, the full page is amazing and how it talks about Ahab's madness. Perhaps an interesting musing when read in the context of Ahab's madness:
It's a line in the middle of c..."
Kickin picture! - )
Thanks! I tried searching for them swimming in veins and got biology cross section pics :(
Biblio wrote: "Thanks! I tried searching for them swimming in veins and got biology cross section pics :("It's a fantastic picture; hardly seems real!! - )
Add a bit of madness after a stormy night and it's a novel just waiting for some writer's ink ^.^
I made it through the white chapter. A beautiful essay but I’m not sure how it really fits into this novel. At be point I did find myself thinking what a truly brilliant and literate person Ishmael is.
Dianne wrote: "Chapter 48 - The First LoweringI think Ahab brought his own crew to ensure that he had someone dedicated to hunt down Moby Dick when the rest of the crew may falter. I'm more surprised there was less of a reaction by the crew
Four boats are lowered in pursuit of the sperm whale, Ahab with his mystery men and Starbuck, Flask and Stubb in their own boats. A whale surfaces near Starbuck..."
Linda wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapter 42 - The Whiteness of the Whale Oh my this chapter......the cetology chapter was interesting. This.....ummmmm. Some of it was pretty. But it took the entirety of a 2 hr flight to read. Amazing how many other things I entertained myself with
BORING CHAPTER ALERT - This chapter is entirely about the color white, the good, the bad, the meaning of the good, the bad, or even white as..."
Paula wrote: "Chapter 47"When I read "phantoms" I was like"
Paula,
I agree. I loved this part. I could not wait to turn the page. This chapter gave me hope. Lol
Stephanie
Moving onward.... I'm still not a fan of this book but I am persevering. I enjoyed reading through all of the comments. They do make me feel a little guilty that I'm just trying to get through this book. I'm still hopeful that I will find a groove with this beast
Stephanie wrote: "Moving onward.... I'm still not a fan of this book but I am persevering. I enjoyed reading through all of the comments. They do make me feel a little guilty that I'm just trying to get through this..."Oh, you are being so hard on yourself. 😉 I think you appreciate a lot of things about the book, and maybe you should let the rest go. Some of the chapters, I think, are more about Melville's love of whales and him just plain enjoying the subject. Like listening to someone talk about her favorite hobby, in the most excruciating detail, and trying not to yawn. Hoping it will end soon.
I would just skim through the passages or chapters that make you yawn and get back to the story, and/or the symbols and allusions you find interesting or compelling.
I do think this is a book that would be great to talk about with a group...in person...over a glass of wine.
Let me know what you think of the chapter called Town Ho. That was a cool one.
Paula wrote: "Let me know what you think of the chapter called Town Ho. That was a cool one."I read it earlier today. Having lunch. On the gulf coast. Watching dolphins. I enjoyed this chapter for the most part. I wish he would have just told the story though. The telling of the story as a story he was telling someone else about.......well he may be a great writer but oh my. Too much. I couldn't help but think/wonder if there are similarities between this story and the mutiny within the crew and Ahabs desire to have his own secret crew....to guard against mutiny so to speak.
Stephanie wrote: "I made it through the white chapter. A beautiful essay but I’m not sure how it really fits into this novel. At be point I did find myself thinking what a truly brilliant and literate person Ishmael..."I think the white chapter fits more with Melville's time. In 2004, we had an ice storm here, after a heavy snow storm. It was also very cold. We lived in a rural area, mostly farm land, and few trees. Everything was white for days. We didn't have any power, either, so we wound up gazing out our windows a lot. One day, I saw a herd of deer way out in a field, looking for food and water. No water to be had, and all the vegetation was coated with ice. I remember thinking this big white could wind up starving a lot of deer. It was somewhat terrifying!
We think of white in terms of pureness in our culture, but it is not so highly regarded in all cultures. And for me, there was a time when white meant just trying to survive.
I know you're having a hard time with the book. Ishmael goes into a lot of detail. He's teaching you what he (and Melville) learned from whaling. For example, he finds Queequeg so strange when they meet, and indeed, they are an unlikely match. But there are other people on board who are not white, too, and Ishmael quickly realizes they have their humanity and good qualities, and are worthy of his respect. Slavery was still legal when this book was written, and I think in this chapter and others, Melville is making a statement about the value of all races, religions, and creeds.
Stephanie wrote: "Paula wrote: "Let me know what you think of the chapter called Town Ho. That was a cool one."I read it earlier today. Having lunch. On the gulf coast. Watching dolphins. I enjoyed this chapter fo..."
I know! I hated that he kept interrupting the story, but I think it was deliberate; trying to emulate what it would have been like to tell it to his listene, getting interrupted, building up the impatience.
Watching dolphins...sounds wonderful...sigh.
Mark wrote: "Biblio wrote: "Thanks! I tried searching for them swimming in veins and got biology cross section pics :("It's a fantastic picture; hardly seems real!! - )"
I know I keep looking at it, what an incredible sight!
Stephanie wrote: "Moving onward.... I'm still not a fan of this book but I am persevering. I enjoyed reading through all of the comments. They do make me feel a little guilty that I'm just trying to get through this..."Stephanie wrote: "Paula wrote: "Chapter 47
"When I read "phantoms" I was like"
Paula,
I agree. I loved this part. I could not wait to turn the page. This chapter gave me hope. Lol
Stephanie"
stephanie love your honesty! But just think you can tell everyone that you read moby dick! And maybe one person will care if they really really like you.
Hummingbirder wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "I made it through the white chapter. A beautiful essay but I’m not sure how it really fits into this novel. At be point I did find myself thinking what a truly brilliant and liter..."Melville must have been considerably ahead of his time with this type of commentary? I wonder if that is why the book was not well received.
Dianne wrote: Melville must have been considerably ahead of his time with this type of commentary? I wonder if that is why the book was not well received. His work was not well received during his lifetime. I think his social commentary is part of it, but also it's a really long book. Most of the time, our chunksters are older works that stand the test of time. LOTR springs to mind. It's pretty old. I read Cryptonomicon as soon as I could after it was published. No one EVER asked to borrow it, but it was my first Stephenson novel, and I think I've read all but one of his.
Hummingbirder wrote: "Dianne wrote: Melville must have been considerably ahead of his time with this type of commentary? I wonder if that is why the book was not well received. His work was not well received during hi..."
I take it you recommend stephenson then hummingbirder?
I wonder how many older chunksters were huge hits when they were written - dickens maybe?
Dianne wrote: "Hummingbirder wrote: "Dianne wrote: Melville must have been considerably ahead of his time with this type of commentary? I wonder if that is why the book was not well received. His work was not w..."
A resounding yes. I haven't read a lot of Dickens myself, but he was prolific and well-received. And he wasn't good to his wife and children, I read that somewhere.
Stephen King is another chunkster author. He's been well-received. An artist doesn't know what's going to happen with his work. Van Gogh was a dud. Picasso had people fawning all over him. And Dirty Dancing was a silly little movie that received mixed reviews. Best Picture for the same year of release was The Last Emperor. How many times has anyone seen each of these movies?
Dianne wrote: "yay glad you stayed with us! "Phew, I am JUST now seeing this message, Dianne! Alas, I did not make it through this particular week's section back in January. These past few weeks have been a horror to my print reading time, and I gravitated towards a couple of lighter reads in the meantime.
Anyway, I ended up switching over to the audiobook version of this narrated by Frank Muller just the other day. I would really rather read this book in print as there is just so much more that I can absorb by reading, but I've got much more listening time on my hands these days.
So, I'm slowly getting back into this Great Beast out on the open seas, while I know everyone else must be exploring the lands of Russia at the moment!
Linda, You are not alone. I am still on board the Pequod being educated on whales.
Stephanie
Stephanie wrote: "Linda, You are not alone. I am still on board the Pequod being educated on whales.
Stephanie"
Good to know, Stephanie! I figured I was not the only one behind, given the few number of comments on the final week's section. I'm currently in next week's section, likewise being educated on whales. I think I'm on chapter 77 or so. I have not had time to catch up on reading the rest of the posts here, though.
Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda, You are not alone. I am still on board the Pequod being educated on whales.
Stephanie"
Good to know, Stephanie! I figured I was not the only one behind, given the few ..."
I hope you and Stephanie stay with it till you finish. It took me forever to read it the first time, and it wasn't my first try. I believe I needed over a month to read it. I read it much faster the second time, and I understood it better. But the "Wow!" from the first time made it so worth it. And I would read it a third time.
I’m getting there. On Ch 95. There are parts that I have enjoyed but I’m pretty sure I don’t appreciate it for what others do. At this point the goal is to mark it off the book bucket listStephanie
The chapter on whiteness ... nothing's more awesome than that!! Shades & colors have a deep meaning for us. They say blue is calming & red is passionate. I'm just an odd duck who'll read virtually anything ^.^ I can see why a whole chapter on colour is boring though, so no worries.
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
Prometheus Unbound (other topics)Metamorphoses (other topics)
Bottom's Dream (other topics)
The White Book (other topics)
The Vegetarian (other topics)
More...
"Small reason was there to doubt, then, that ever since that almost fateful encounter, Ahab had cherished a wild vindictiveness against the whale, all the more fe..."
- )