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Regency Buck (Alastair-Audley, #3)
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Group Reads > Regency Buck Group Read Jan 2018 Chapter 13-23

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Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4163 comments Mod
How are you finding it so far?


Louise Sparrow (louisex) | 456 comments It takes until we get to Brighton for me to warm to them, but I must admit that at that point I do start getting into the plot.


Nick Imrie (nickimrie) | 437 comments I'm in chapter 14 and Lord Worth is finally apologising for the first time for some of his overbearing behaviour. I hope I'm not going to start liking him now that he's being reasonable. I have been enjoying finding him hatefully over-bearing.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Nick wrote: "I'm in chapter 14 and Lord Worth is finally apologising for the first time for some of his overbearing behaviour. I hope I'm not going to start liking him now that he's being reasonable. I have bee..."

Lol!


message 5: by Sheila (in LA) (last edited Jan 06, 2018 06:09PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sheila (in LA) (sheila_in_la) | 344 comments I just finished chapter 12--I thought I recognized Lady Jersey from another Heyer book and found confirmation in Wikipedia:
"She is a recurring character in the Regency novels of Georgette Heyer, where she is presented as eccentric and unpredictable, but highly intelligent and observant, and capable of kindness and generosity."

I also had to look up snuff--I've never had enough interest in it before to do any research.

I feel certain the duel was a setup.


message 6: by MaryC (new)

MaryC Clawsey | 479 comments Sheila wrote: "I just finished chapter 12--I thought I recognized Lady Jersey from another book and found confirmation in Wikipedia:
"She is a recurring character in the Regency novels of Georgette Heyer, where s..."


I believe there were two Lady Jerseys, both of them society doyennes, and I think the one in GH's books is the younger one, perhaps the daughter-in-law of the earlier one. As I recall, she appears in The Grand Sophy and A Civil Contract. Can anyone think of others?


Nick Imrie (nickimrie) | 437 comments Yes, I think it must be the younger Lady Jersey: Sarah Villiers. She would've been a couple of years older than Judith in the book, but she's the one who was a patroness of Almack's and called 'Silence' because she never stopped talking.


message 8: by Sheila (in LA) (last edited Jan 06, 2018 06:08PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sheila (in LA) (sheila_in_la) | 344 comments I think Lady Jersey (the one called Silence) also appears in Frederica—the Heyer I’ve read most recently, hence fresh in my memory.


QNPoohBear | 1245 comments Heyer does populate her world with real life figures such as the patronesses of Almacks https://www.janeausten.co.uk/the-patr...

Also noblemen like Poodle Byng; Gentleman Jackson, the boxing instructor, and the royals The Prince Regent, the Duke of Clarence. Her research was impecable for the time given limited resources compared to what we have now! You can Google her references, including the slang, and come up with the sources right at your finger tips.


message 10: by Sheila (in LA) (last edited Jan 06, 2018 06:56PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sheila (in LA) (sheila_in_la) | 344 comments QNPoohBear wrote: "Heyer does populate her world with real life figures such as the patronesses of Almacks https://www.janeausten.co.uk/the-patr...

Also noblemen..."


Yes, her research is impressive! I enjoyed how she wove the Taverners' story into the period. The amount of period detail does make for a different reading experience but the book held my interest.


message 11: by Alathea (last edited Jan 11, 2018 05:07AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Alathea Jane (vronlas) | 54 comments I looked up Miss Tylney Long, and found this which explains why she was known as the "pocket Venus", as well as her courtship by the Duke of Clarence (Chapter 13). She eventually married William Wellesley-Pole in March 1812 (hinted at in Chapter 15), but the marriage was unhappy and her husband ran through her immense fortune in a very short time. Being a rich heiress was clearly not an enviable situation.

https://hauntedpalaceblog.wordpress.c...

In Chapter 15 Heyer seems to have a sudden attack of wanting to provide as many clues as possible that the novel is set in 1812 - as well as the references to Miss Tylney-Long's courtship by Wellesley-Pole, she tells us that Charles Audley was wounded at the battle of Arroyo del Molinos the previous October (28 Oct 1811), and that Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage came out at the beginning of March.


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1091 comments Alathea wrote: "I looked up Miss Tylney Long, and found this which explains why she was known as the "pocket Venus", as well as her courtship by the Duke of Clarence (Chapter 13). She eventually married William We..."

It is also interesting, as someone has already noted, that this book takes place over a much more extended period of time than her usual:- covering 1811/1812. Also, as you said, that unlike her later books, this one goes out of its way to tell us exact dates by reference to so many real events!


Sally | 6 comments I have some of the same reservations about the book as others in the group. This is definitely not one of my favorites, but I picked this up after reading a few contemporary Regencies, and was immediately struck by how much better the writing was! Even one of Heyer's lesser works is so much better than everything else.

Also, I listened to parts of it on Audible, and found I enjoyed the listening more than the reading on this one.


Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4163 comments Mod
Sally wrote: "I have some of the same reservations about the book as others in the group. This is definitely not one of my favorites, but I picked this up after reading a few contemporary Regencies, and was imme..."

Hi Sally! I said it on one of my reviews that even a weak GH Regency is better than any other authors' best!


message 15: by Kim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kim Kaso | 504 comments I try and keep in mind mores in Regency world, which GH captures beautifully, are very different from ours, and mores when sh wrote this, different as well. Whenever someone romanticizes living in the past, I recognize I would not enjoy the males in my life trying to control my money, actions, or life, no matter how well intended. That being said, Judith’s temper gets her into the basket quite frequently.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Sally wrote: "I have some of the same reservations about the book as others in the group. This is definitely not one of my favorites, but I picked this up after reading a few contemporary Regencies, and was imme..."

Very good points, I rated it two stars as a Heyer because of the lack of the usual sparkling wit and humor, but the quality of writing is so much better than a lot of what’s out there! I think I need to up it to three stars...and I agree, I think it would’ve been much better as an audiobook.


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Belinda | 220 comments Chapter 19 - gosh they are casual about items that would be criminal charges - drugging and deprivation of liberty.


Abigail Bok (regency_reader) | 1288 comments Perhaps that casual attitude comes from the fact that in England in that day, peers like Worth could be tried only by their peers in the House of Lords. It was easier to prosecute a peer for debt than it was for kidnapping. They really were “above the law.” That was what was so revolutionary about the great American constitutional experiment—the idea that nobody was above the law! (At least, that’s our aspiration.)


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Abigail wrote: "Perhaps that casual attitude comes from the fact that in England in that day, peers like Worth could be tried only by their peers in the House of Lords. It was easier to prosecute a peer for debt t..."

So true - I learned so much read Dorothy Sayers’ “Clouds of Witness”, in which Lord Peter’s elder brother, who is also a duke, was tried in the House Of Lords for murder. What an undertaking!

And yes, that is our aspiration in America, I hope we can keep it alive...


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1091 comments Abigail wrote: "Perhaps that casual attitude comes from the fact that in England in that day, peers like Worth could be tried only by their peers in the House of Lords. It was easier to prosecute a peer for debt t..."

Peers were not above the law in that sense - but they could as you suggest, (and indeed as was the right of any citizen), be tried by a jury of their peers (and literally their peers were Peers of the Realm). Access to justice was not simply limited by birth but by wealth and power. Is it not ever thus?
It was Magna Carta in 1215 that first established the rule of law and the Bill of Rights in 1689 further developed it. These 2 documents were the twin pillars of the British Constitution and I believe Magna Carta inspired the founding fathers when they were drawing up the US Constitution.
I think Heyer's books absolutely reflect the reality of the power of the aristocracy at that time. Somehow, as you suggest, the reality of the rule of law for them was always in their favour in a way it never was for ordinary people.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments So true, my friend, and thanks for the information.


message 22: by Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , Madam Mod (last edited Jan 20, 2018 11:28AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 4163 comments Mod
& this explains a lot of Golden Age fiction where the aristocracy appears stunned when some uppity detective questions them about a murder!


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Carol - good point!


message 24: by Belinda (last edited Jan 20, 2018 05:19PM) (new) - added it

Belinda | 220 comments Thanks all. Very interesting. I could see how a crashingly snobbish attitude would develop in the aristocracy if they were ‘almost ‘ above the law and I could see why a code of conduct and ties formed at school and in clubs would be so important between the elite.


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Belinda | 220 comments Chapter 21. GH has strong females for her time. Judith is railing against her powerlessness in the search for Perry and how at least worth could take action


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Belinda | 220 comments Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REALLY thinking at various plot turn points in the past. It goes on for at least a page - this backfilling in story. She has s much lighter skilled touch in later novels.


message 27: by Belinda (new) - added it

Belinda | 220 comments Correction three pages of plot exposition and back fill!


message 28: by Belinda (new) - added it

Belinda | 220 comments Clumsy finish making Perry and the tiger Henry comic relief. A quick wrap up. I’ve noted she often does this.


Karlyne Landrum | 3895 comments Belinda wrote: "Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REALLY thinking at various plot turn..."

Regency Buck was her first Regency but it was, I think, her 17th or 18th novel to be published, so she wasn't exactly a novice! She had four contemporaries (later suppressed by herself, since she hated them), four or five mysteries, six Georgians, and some historical novels already published by the time this one came along. She hadn't hit her Regency stride yet, with the wit and sparkle she's still known for, but she really was already an accomplished novelist.


Sheila (in LA) (sheila_in_la) | 344 comments Karlyne wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REALLY thinking at v..."

Thanks for putting the book into context, Karlyne!

The final chapter did not strike me as awkward, in fact I enjoyed it. I liked their non-hostile interaction with each other.


Karlyne Landrum | 3895 comments I just finished the Kloester bio last week, so it was fairly fresh in my mind!


Susan in Perthshire (susanageofaquarius) | 1091 comments Belinda wrote: "Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REALLY thinking at various plot turn..."

Whilst it was her first Regency, as Karlyne has said, it was certainly not one of her early books - which makes it all the stranger that has she should have had lost her deft touch in this one. I found the dialogue between Worth and Judith in the final scene unbearably stilted and verbose. It was almost as if someone entirely different had written that particular scene! I do feel that it’s still a better book than much of the tosh that’s published today under the guise of ‘regency’ novels.


message 33: by Nick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Nick Imrie (nickimrie) | 437 comments Susan in Perthshire wrote: " I do feel that it’s still a better book than much of the tosh that’s published today under the guise of ‘regency’ novels."

Yes! Exactly! I still haven't found any regency romance writer to stands up to Heyer for historical accuracy, witty conversation, or psychological insight.
I sometimes feel a bit guilty because I rate other regencies so low - I'm sure I'd like them better and be kinder to them if they were in other genres, but sadly, Heyer has ruined me for anyone else.


Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2578 comments Mod
Nick wrote: "Yes! Exactly! I still haven't found any regency romance writer to stands up to Heyer for historical accuracy, witty conversation, or psychological insight.
I sometimes feel a bit guilty because I rate other regencies so low - I'm sure I'd like them better and be kinder to them if they were in other genres, but sadly, Heyer has ruined me for anyone else. "


It is too true! Whenever I read a regency by another author, I always find myself comparing it to Heyer. I don't know what is worse, those who obviously attempt to copy her, or those that are completely anachronistic in tone, language and action.


message 35: by MaryL (new)

MaryL (maryl1) | 12 comments I think the subtitle of this book should be: A Regency Era Guidebook Complete with Excellent Descriptions of Points of Interest , Discourses on Etiquette and Fashion, Entertaining Descriptions of Sporting Events, and Featuring Many People of the Ton.


Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2578 comments Mod
MaryL wrote: "I think the subtitle of this book should be: A Regency Era Guidebook Complete with Excellent Descriptions of Points of Interest , Discourses on Etiquette and Fashion, Entertaining Descriptions of S..."

That is brilliant, MaryL!


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Belinda wrote: "Correction three pages of plot exposition and back fill!"

Lol!


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Sheila wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REAL..."

Me, too - frankly, it was a relief to get to this kind of interaction, otherwise I’d imagine a lifetime of flashing eyes, dripping sarcasm and daggers drawn! Not my idea of a comfortable marriage, and no outsies back then - not without a devastating scandal, anyway.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Chapter 23- I can tell this is one of GH’s earlier novels as in this final chapter, the two lead characters are clumsily explaining to each other what they were REALLY thinking at v..."

“Tosh”is a much kinder word than I might’ve used, my friend, but so true!


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments Nick wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: " I do feel that it’s still a better book than much of the tosh that’s published today under the guise of ‘regency’ novels."

Yes! Exactly! I still haven't found any rege..."


Beautifully put, Nick! Also true for me.


message 41: by Susan in NC (last edited Jan 24, 2018 11:29AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments ❇Critterbee wrote: "Nick wrote: "Yes! Exactly! I still haven't found any regency romance writer to stands up to Heyer for historical accuracy, witty conversation, or psychological insight.
I sometimes feel a bit guilt..."


Hah - some are so poorly done, they might as well claim they have to recharge their cell phone and catch a flight out of Heathrow...it really takes you right out of the story, doesn’t it? To me, that’s the worst.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments MaryL wrote: "I think the subtitle of this book should be: A Regency Era Guidebook Complete with Excellent Descriptions of Points of Interest , Discourses on Etiquette and Fashion, Entertaining Descriptions of S..."

Lovely!


Critterbee❇ (critterbee) | 2578 comments Mod
Susan in NC wrote: "Hah - some are so poorly done, they might as well claim they have to recharge their cell phone and catch a flight out of Heathrow...it really takes you right out of the story, doesn’t it?"

So true! I remember reading in a regency a 'joking' reference to letting the cold air out of the room of the inn because the door was standing open. I was thinking, it is summer in the early 1800s, and this is not an ice house, what is making the air so cold in the inside of the inn that is so drastically affected by the door being open? I could understand if it were winter, and the open door was letting out the warmth of the fire.


Susan in NC (susanncreader) | 3362 comments ❇Critterbee wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Hah - some are so poorly done, they might as well claim they have to recharge their cell phone and catch a flight out of Heathrow...it really takes you right out of the story, d..."

Very good example- a distraction that takes you out of the story!


message 45: by Nick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Nick Imrie (nickimrie) | 437 comments MaryL wrote: "I think the subtitle of this book should be: A Regency Era Guidebook Complete with Excellent Descriptions of Points of Interest , Discourses on Etiquette and Fashion, Entertaining Descriptions of S..."

Haha! I think that's perfect!


message 46: by MaryC (new)

MaryC Clawsey | 479 comments Alathea and Susan-in-Perthshire both commented (almost a month ago--sorry!) on the fact that GH mentions many more dates in Regency Buck than in most of her other Regencies. Well, it was her first Regency,and she must have wanted to make the time clear to her readers!


Alathea Jane (vronlas) | 54 comments MaryC wrote: "Alathea and Susan-in-Perthshire both commented (almost a month ago--sorry!) on the fact that GH mentions many more dates in Regency Buck than in most of her other Regencies. Well, it was her first ..."

What struck me most was the way she suddenly crammed several dates into one chapter, rather than scattering them through the book...


QNPoohBear | 1245 comments Wow Georgette Heyer deliberately copied and paraphrased Jane Austen's phrasing. There are also some situations that resemble Jane's life and novels. Plus Judith reads Sense & Sensibility, as well as Jane's least favorite novel about a young lady who floats down the Amazon. This book and other novels of the period directly influenced Jane Austen to write the anti-18th-century novel and create the realistic genre we know today. (I'm reading Jane Austen at Home and recently reread Persuasion so Jane's words are fresh in my mind).

This is illuminating reading Heyer's books in order. She really invented the novel of the ton and made it her own art form but it wasn't easy!


Alathea Jane (vronlas) | 54 comments QNPoohBear wrote: "This is illuminating reading Heyer's books in order."

Isn't it? I hadn't realised that she'd written Regency Buck, An Infamous Army and then The Spanish Bride one after the other. We've already seen how in RB she overloads the descriptions with passages which seem to be taken from guidebooks of the time. AIA and The Spanish Bride suffer from the amount of copying from contemporary accounts. I didn't realise until I read some of the soldiers' memoirs of the Peninsular War that there are whole passages in The Spanish Bride which are lifted straight from Kincaid and George Simmonds - probably also from Harry Smith's autobiography, which I haven't read. I guess that opinions are divided on whether this is a good technique in a historical novel. I find that it jars, but others seem to think that it makes the writing more convincing.


Jenny H (jenny_norwich) | 634 comments Alathea wrote: "MaryC wrote: "Alathea and Susan-in-Perthshire both commented (almost a month ago--sorry!) on the fact that GH mentions many more dates in Regency Buck than in most of her other Regencies. Well, it ..."

She's normally much more subtle, isn't she? It's quite rare for actual dates to be mentioned, but there are clues to pick up for anyone who really wants to know - gossip about events in the royal family, mentions of a particular battle x years ago, that kind of thing.


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