The Old Curiosity Club discussion

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The Pickwick Papers
The Pickwick Papers
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Reading Schedule, and Preliminary Remarks
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I will join the Pickwick Club today and continue on with the hope of warmth in the days ahead."
In Pennsylv..."
Sounds great, Kim. One of my three cats is a lapcat. So, I sit back and start reading and he becomes my "quilt" for a long while. Nice and warm and purring away.

I will join the Pickwick Club today and continue on with the hope of warmth in the days ahead."
Hi John, I..."
Yes, Billy, New Jersey resident here. Well, we have the right weather for reading, but let's hope we get a warming spell. I'll take mid 30s right now.

And he may not have just been referring to his favorite Dickens, but of all works. Hard to know, though I suspect ..."
It’s not just Harold Bloom—G.K. Chesterton, Christian apologist, journalist, and creator of the Father Brown mysteries had similar feelings about “Pickwick”. In addition to a book of essays on each of Dickens’s works—“Appreciations and Criticisms of the Works of Charles Dickens”—he wrote a short literary biography of Dickens and dedicated an entire chapter to “Pickwick Papers.” I believe Harold Bloom might actually use the following excerpt, but I love it too as it captures how I feel about the book:
In "The Pickwick Papers" Dickens sprang suddenly from a comparatively low level to a very high one. To the level of "Sketches by Boz" he never afterwards descended. To the level of "The Pickwick Papers" it is doubtful if he ever afterwards rose. "Pickwick," indeed, is not a good novel; but it is not a bad novel, for it is not a novel at all. In one sense, indeed, it is something nobler than a novel, for no novel with a plot and a proper termination could emit that sense of everlasting youth -- a sense as of the gods gone wandering in England. This is not a novel, for all novels have an end; and "Pickwick," properly speaking, has no end -- he is equal unto the angels. The point at which, as a fact, we find the printed matter terminates is not an end in any artistic sense of the word. Even as a boy I believed there were some more pages that were torn out of my copy, and I am looking for them still.
My only qualm is that both Bloom and Chesterton apparently read the book as children, and the idea of my childhood self happily sitting down with a copy of any Charles Dickens novel, and reading it to rags, boggles my mind not a little....

And he may not have just been referring to his favorite Dickens, but of all works. Hard to know, thou..."
Very interesting, Andrew. Thanks for sharing. I have been meaning to read Chesterton on Dickens, but have not yet done so. I will also have to go back and reread Bloom on Pickwick. I believe he covered Pickwick in his chapter on Dickens in his book entitled Genius.

Well, here's hoping the outdoor wildlife come through this okay and that we start to see "warmer" temps -- the low 30s would be as welcome as a cup of tea with honey.


Horrendously bad weather in New Jersey right now. I'm looking at 8-10 inches, poor visibility with damaging winds that may knock power out. I seriously question my sanity about not moving down to a warmer climate.
I have a feeling I know what Chesterton meant because when starting to read into the first chapters, I once again experienced the typically Pickwickian feeling that is always there when I read that novel. It's difficult to explain, but the book is so full of exuberance and a spirit of confabulation that it exerts a very special charm. I would not agree, however, with Chesterton that Dickens never reached the Pickwick level again in his later works: He became more and more mature and excelled in a different style.



Alas, my edition has "the last text Dickens saw through the press," though I much prefer "cwucify me" to "confound me"!
I'm really looking forward to this. I haven't read Pickwick since graduate school oral exams and I just pulled my old Penguin off the bookshelves and it's crowned in dust bunnies hiding out between really, really crusty-brown post-it notes. I can't remember what happens in the book at all. Clearly it's time I picked it up again.

Only just begun the book and already loving the illustrations.
Matt wrote: "Anyone else have the "Oxford Illustrated Dickens" edition of PP?
Only just begun the book and already loving the illustrations."
Kim will be posting many illustrations for us to enjoy and discuss.
Only just begun the book and already loving the illustrations."
Kim will be posting many illustrations for us to enjoy and discuss.
Kim wrote: "How true that is. Many, Many illustrations. :-)"
I for one, will enjoy every illustration.
I for one, will enjoy every illustration.

John wrote: "I assume a thread for commentary on the early chapters will be up soon?"
Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since the first two chapters reading schedule starts on 1/4, I expect that the discussion thread will open this Sunday, or maybe Saturday.
That gives the moderators a day or two to prepare their summaries, which are extensive, and also gives readers a chance to get their reading done before the discussion thread opens.
Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since the first two chapters reading schedule starts on 1/4, I expect that the discussion thread will open this Sunday, or maybe Saturday.
That gives the moderators a day or two to prepare their summaries, which are extensive, and also gives readers a chance to get their reading done before the discussion thread opens.
Everyman wrote: "John wrote: "I assume a thread for commentary on the early chapters will be up soon?"
Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since the first two chap..."
What he said.
Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since the first two chap..."
What he said.

Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since t..."
Everyman wrote: "John wrote: "I assume a thread for commentary on the early chapters will be up soon?"
Discussion threads usually go up on the Sunday after the start of the reading period. Since the first two chap..."
Ok, thank you.
My Nook book does not have the original illustrations, as apparently some books do, and I am going to try to find an edition that has the illustrations. Given what I know of the creation of Pickwick and how it proceeded for publication, it seems to me without the illustrations, the reading experience would be reduced.


That's right. Thanks Jean. I happen to like the set up of my Delphi Classics version and so might be easier to view the illustration here. I have seen only very few, so looking forward to matching "the work to the work."

I hope everyone en..."
Definitely going to read Death and Mr. Pickwick" after, or perhaps along side this read-along.


but it only goes up to Chapter 56 !??"
I have the same edition



While in the

Do not worry. We are not missing anything!

Thank you, Tristram, for the wondrous dating system which not only makes perfect sense but has something of a pleasing esthetic about it! Thank you too, Linda, for presenting that quirky dating system. It is unfortunately nonsensical but I'm certain that no one could have made a better job of it! :p
So Kim, you've been having snow! What a lovely image you paint:
Quilt, hot tea ... Very cosy and an aid to extending Christmas. It's only now the last day of Christmas if one wants it to be! The Feast of Epiphany - some countries practise the exchange of presents today on the wise men's behalf.
That's interesting about Chesterson. He is an impressive writer! Was it John who referred to that? Sorry I can't check while commenting! I'm so looking forward to Dickens at his silliest. What better way to begin 2018?!
I hope that you're completely recovered, Jean. Not fun though be ill!
It's so lovely to have Brazil and Italy represented and probably many more that have slipped my mind. Onward and upward!


Thanks. Today it's exactly a month since I ventured out of the house, even down the short front path. (Somehow, I think you may relate to this ...) Chris has bought me a walking stick, which is very funky with a William Morris pattern on. So either I can pretend it's a fashion accessory, or take on my other persona of batty old dear brandishing it and threatening everybody. Anyway I did have a ride in the car, and took a few embarrassed steps, before feeling very tired. Slowly slowly does it ...
Hope you're OK. Yes, 12th night tonight, so we take our decorations and cards down tomorrow.

Thanks. Today it's exactly a month since I ventured out of the house, even down the shor..."
Lucky you. I wish I could have a William Morris walking stick.

Having one is the easy part; needing one is a little more challenging! ;-)

Having one is the easy part; needing one is a little more challenging! ;-)"
No prob. I generally look as if I need a walking stick.

Wow—I had no idea that Dickens made so many changes to Pickwick! I’m glad I’m using the Penguin copy so I can get all the “newly serialized young author” flavor intact...I hate bowdlerized editions of books (I’m planning on giving Pepys diaries a try this year and it took several visits to Internet Archive, Gutenberg and amazon to discover the first uncut edition of a journal from 1660 wasn’t published until the 1960’s)
The part about the (relatively) saucy language reminded me of a point some other writer made about Dickens: even though he’s thought of as the definitive “Victorian” novelist, really came of age in an earlier era. He grew up in the Regency era, when foppish, drunken George IV ruled for his father, who was mentally ill. English society then—and during the subsequent reign of George IV’s brother, the foul-mouthed sailor-king William IV, was much more colorful, socially unrestricted, and relaxed. There are some great history books about the Regency era, all relatively short...but I think fashion makes for a good metaphor: compare the slim, close-fitting dresses in a Jane Austen movie or illustrated novel with the corsets and iron-framed crinoline hoop skirts you can see in the Victorian era!

And he may not have just been referring to his favorite Dickens, but of all works. Har..."
Sure! I might mention it in a separate post, but Chesterton really did two separate looks at Pickwick, both great, and both available free online. He did the biography I quoted from, with a chapter on Pickwick, the origins, the Seymour controversy, etc. and then he also did a great book called “Appreciations and Criticisms of the Works of Charles Dickens”, which is pretty much a collection of essays, one per Dickens novel.
I don’t always agree with Chesterton’s philosophy in other areas, but I think his feelings and analyses about Dickens’ novels are usually spot-on. For example, he calls Nickleby a romance and throwback to the episodic novels of Smollett and Fielding...Little Dorrit he thinks is the least Dickensy of the novels, and the most realistic and sad, while Our Mutual Friend he calls a sort of “Indian Summer” (OMF is probably in my top three Dickens novels)

Only just begun the book and already loving the illustrations."
Are you talking about the colorful small hardcover editions? I was planning on using that version myself, but I can’t find it anywhere and suspect it is deep in storage. But I love their blend of hardcover sturdiness and paperback portability.

Each essay or chapter is concerned with a major Dickens novel, along with the Xmas books. There ARE spoilers, though, so first-time readers beware!
Edit: I haven’t read these in a while and was just looking through the Pickwick one—the essay opens sounding rather like it’s going to be a religious tract...it does pick up, although Chesterton had some kind of odd ideas about how England was a much more Merrie place when it was Catholic...oh well

Yeah—I think in his essay on Bleak House, Chesterton says it’s certainly his best novel, but that for Dickens the titles of best novel and best book aren’t necessarily the same. Certainly he became a more intricate plotter as he went, and Bleak House, Great Expectations, etc. are much richer sources for the sorts of things English professors use in their exams —symbolism, theme, imagery, etc. ;-).,.. but there’s something about Pickwick—and Nickleby, too, IMO, where you can just pick it up, open to any chapter, and go....

I feel the same way! I couldn’t finish Little Dorrit because of how dismal the entire thing seemed to be. The entire novel seemed to take place at 3:45pm on a drizzly Sunday afternoon in February.
I think Our Mutual Friend is an exception, though. It has dark themes, and scenes and settings, but it’s populated by characters who seem like they snuck out of early Dickens. The Thames scenes with Hexam and his daughter, for example, are to me more cheerful, or cozy, than anything in Little Dorrit—like Dickens was smacking his lips as he wrote it!

I'm going to see if this is available for download as an e book. I'd like to read what Chesterton has to say.

I laughed at this. Of course it is true, but that is part of the appeal of that particular novel. Its more problematic aspect for me is that you could read the final chapters several times and still be scratching your head! A flawed but great book.

I laughed at this...."
Writing this on a more than drizzly Sunday morning and gravitating toward the computer screen as much for light as anything else, I almost feel I need a book like that right now. But then again, Pickwick will be brighter.
Julie wrote: "Patrick wrote: ""I couldn’t finish Little Dorrit because of how dismal the entire thing seemed to be. The entire novel seemed to take place at 3:45pm on a drizzly Sunday afternoon in February."
I ..."
Julie and Patrick
Drizzling here in Victoria as well. For light and a smile or two, Pickwick may well pick up my day. I’m looking forward to reading and discussing the novel with you both.
I ..."
Julie and Patrick
Drizzling here in Victoria as well. For light and a smile or two, Pickwick may well pick up my day. I’m looking forward to reading and discussing the novel with you both.
Andrew wrote: "Kim wrote: "I looked a little further trying to find out why there were two number 28 chapters, in some versions (like mine), something I never would have noticed until we got there and my fellow m..."
Andrew, not only does my copy have two chapter 28s, but I also have a chapter 3a and a chapter 3b, one in the first installment and one in the second installment. It seems silly, but I'll say more of that in the correct thread, once I decide which one is the correct thread. :-)
Andrew, not only does my copy have two chapter 28s, but I also have a chapter 3a and a chapter 3b, one in the first installment and one in the second installment. It seems silly, but I'll say more of that in the correct thread, once I decide which one is the correct thread. :-)
It would have been the perfect book for 2020: Enough fun to keep your mind off the gloomy things.
I will join the Pickwick Club today and continue on with the hope of warmth in the days ahead."
Hi John, I'm a newbie here. Just noticed your post and we're pretty much neighbors, so to speak. I'm in Cinnaminson, NJ. Just think Friday's high is 17' here. I'm also starting out The PP today. Enjoy.