2018 Challenge - Ngaio Marsh

[Susan]

Maybe, but I would still prefer to read in order. One of the reasons I got turned off the Campion books for so long was because I read a later book for another book group and had no idea about all the relationships in the book. It was The Tiger in the Smoke and is regarded as one of her best, but I was utterly lost. Now I am re-reading the series from the beginning, I am really enjoying them at last.

[Adrian]

Susan wrote: "That's good in many ways, but I am quite anal about book order!"

Yeah I'm afraid I am to, I hate reading out of order whether it is a serial or a series. Hey just my quirk 😳

[Susan]

Good to hear I am not alone, Adrian! I know I annoy people sometimes when they suggest a book and I demur if it is part of a series. If they knew how painful it is for me to read out of order they would understand :)

[Adrian]

Susan wrote: "Good to hear I am not alone, Adrian! If they knew how painful it is for me to read out of order they ..."

Exactly !!!

[Hilary (A Wytch's Book Review)]

Same here I HAVE to start with the first one!

[Jill]

Me too! When I had to depend on the library, it was a case of reading what was on offer, but since I have been able to buy books I must read in order . Suppose it is a sort of litte luxury.

[Jan C]

Sometimes the story has a thread to follow.

Another point is the way an author matures. When I was jumping around in a series I would look at an earlier book and wonder how the author suddenly became a lesser writer. They hadn't become lesser, their writing just hadn't matured yet.

So now I try to read in order and begin at the beginning.

[Susan]

I feel we need to start a movement - Books in Order? Series Matter? Shall I get a banner and Jan C can print the T-Shirts? ;)

[Elinor]

I'm 200% with you ! It's the same for TV series, or anything. I hate when I miss an episode, when I catch something already satrted... Especially since character developpement and relationships are really important for me - then can make or break something for me, especially in TV series. I used to watch quite a lot of mystery series with my family, but I really now only stick to a few of them because of their well done plot and / or because of their character. That's why I've never been a fan of all the CSI, characters are absolutely ininteresting in those shows.
So I want one of this Tshirt ^^

However, my mother has kind of another rule. Well it's not really a rule, it's more something that happened because she read what was at her disposal then, but she often started with book 2. Then she is intrigued by the cahracters dynamics and all, and read book 1, and then back in order : 3, ... Have you ever done that ?

[Susan]

As the first book in a series is often weak, there is some kind of sense with that, Elinor. Not that I have done it, or only by accident.

[Jill]

it is so easy now with the Internet to find the order books were written in. However before that there was quite often only the front pages of a book listing books by the author, which were quite often wrong .

[Sue]

I'd buy that t-shirt! I definitely like to read in order. Largely because of the background story that develops. I've just started re-reading the Amelia Peabody series by Elizabeth Peters. Does anyone know that one? As well as the mystery in each book, we learn about her family and the people who work for them and it's fascinating to find their stories out. There would be serious spoilers if you read that series out of order.

The first one is Crocodile on the Sandbank. I'm thoroughly enjoying being back in her world!

[Jill]

Sue wrote: "I'd buy that t-shirt! I definitely like to read in order. Largely because of the background story that develops. I've just started re-reading the Amelia Peabody series by Elizabeth Peters. Does any..."

That is another series I have to read but haven't got to yet.

[Elinor]

Sue that's one of the very very few (if not the only one ?) series I started with book 2 and not book 1, out of my mother recommendation that she found it better this way, going back to found out... well... don't want to spoil the first one although it's pretty common knowledge, so (view spoiler)[how Amelia and Radcliff meet and all that jazz (hide spoiler)] I have not yet read the first one nor the rest of the series, but I really liked this book, I should get back to that series...

[Roman Clodia]

Sue, I love Amelia Peabody, too - and agree that it has to be read in order because of the ongoing story threads. That's quite different, though, from, say, Christie's Marple or Poirot where I would maintain order doesn't really matter as there are no real overarching storylines - that said, I appreciate other people have a different approach to this than me!

[Adrian]

Susan wrote: "I feel we need to start a movement - Books in Order? Series Matter? Shall I get a banner and Jan C can print the T-Shirts? ;)"

Medium please 😀

Roman Clodia wrote: "...I would maintain order doesn't really matter..... that said, I appreciate other people have a different approach to this than me! "

T'would be very boring if we were all alike 😬

[Roman Clodia]

Adrian wrote: "T'would be very boring if we were all alike 😬."

Most definitely! :))

[Sue]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Sue, I love Amelia Peabody, too - and agree that it has to be read in order because of the ongoing story threads. That's quite different, though, from, say, Christie's Marple or Poirot where I woul..."

Yes I'd agree with that RC - good point.

[Sue]

Jill wrote: "That is another series I have to read but haven't got to yet. ..."

Oh you should definitely have a go then, they are quite quick and easy to read and I like the feisty Amelia and the scrapes she gets into!

[Sandy]

I'm another Amelia Peabody fan! Just love the family. I haven't yet had the courage to try the recent addition, written (or completed) by a different author. The mystery is usually a bit convoluted but the characters more than make up for it.

[Tracey]

I love the Amelia Peabodys too! I'm very far behind, though - I didn't even realize there was one completed by someone else. After what Jill Paton Walsh did to the Lord Peter universe, that's scary.

[Jessica-sim]

Oh my, completely late to the game but I'm starting now. I've waited 6 weeks for a paper copy, every week I was promised it'd be there shortly... But now I gave up and went with the ibook version. It's gonna be a digital reading spree for me. This will also be my introduction to Ngaio Marsh. I'm looking forward to finally digging in.

[Judy]

Sorry to hear you had such a long wait, Jessica, but it's good to hear you are joining in. I hope you enjoy discovering Marsh!

[Susan]

The good thing is that the books are fairly short, so you should catch up quite quickly, Jessica :)

[Judy]

Found a couple of Marsh books in an Oxfam shop today, Overture to Death and Surfeit of Lampreys - my mum had already lent me several, so I now have most of our remaining reads ready to go. :)

[Susan]

That's good, Judy. Always nice to find the books you really want to read :)

[Susan]

Now that we are a few months into this challenge, what is your response to Ngaio Marsh? How do you think she compares to our previous challenges - Dorothy L. Sayers and Miss Marple?

[Elinor]

I've only read the first one as well as a few chapters of the second one so far, and haven't participated in any other challenge so I can't compare, but I think I have found an author that I really like, although not as much as Agatha Christie or Georgette Heyer (whom I have just read one of her mysteries, but I really really liked it).
Concerning the challenge in itself, I knew I wasn't going to read a lot of the books (especially since the last months I've been reading few things except comics), but I still hope I can finish the 2nd one and maybe read the 3rd one as well.

[Susan]

I enjoy Georgette Heyer's mysteries too, Elinor. I have this group to thank for introducing them to me.

[Jill]

Susan wrote: "Now that we are a few months into this challenge, what is your response to Ngaio Marsh? How do you think she compares to our previous challenges - Dorothy L. Sayers and Miss Marple?"

I had read a lot of these two authors before and although I have had the Marsh books for a good number of years, I hadn't got to them . Mainly because of the small print of the old paperbacks, so I needed something to push me into reading them. This group has given me that push, and I'm really pleased it has.

[Susan]

Good to hear, Jill :) Me too!

[Tara]

I find Marsh to be very different from Christie, but I enjoy both of them in their own way. I probably never would have read these books if not for this challenge, so I'm glad I found it.

[Susan]

Great to hear some of us have discovered a 'new' author. It is interesting to read someone whose work I know less well.

[Lesley]

I have known Ngaio Marsh for many years - more than I care to remember. My first introduction was in the 4th form at college when she was one of the NZ authors in our required reading list. I chose her because even then I was well into mysteries, so the genre appealed more than some of the others on offer. Plus her books were shorter! I have to admit to not liking her writing style that much back then, and only completed the books because I was compelled to, and because I wanted to know the murderer.

Later on I read one of the books again and found it much more appealing, so went on to read most of the series. I found them again when I began working in our local public library shelving the returns, and read many again. I have enjoyed them more with each reading yet haven't remembered the details of the murder. Whether that is because I adjusted to/came to like her style, or because I matured/aged. :)

[Susan]

I often forget details of who murdered who, and why, in mysteries. I tell myself it is because I read so many - it makes me feel better about my poor memory, Lesley :)

[Judy]

It’s early days, but I’m wondering if she may be the best of the big four in some ways, because of the combination of strong characters plots and writing style. Looking forward to watching Fox and Alleyn develop as we read on.

[Susan]

All of the Big Four are very different, really. I wonder who would be the greatest of the male UK GA authors? Who would be the contenders, do we think?

[Rosina]

Susan wrote: "All of the Big Four are very different, really. I wonder who would be the greatest of the male UK GA authors? Who would be the contenders, do we think?"

Probably 95% of them would turn out to be John Creasey

[Judy]

That's quite a question, Susan - there are so many! There are lots I haven't read, but out of those I have I think Edmund Crispin, Nicholas Blake and Michael Innes are all great - and I have only read a couple so far by Freeman Wills Crofts, but I think he is very good too.

Of course, from an earlier era, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is the greatest of them all.

[Judy]

Rosina wrote: "Probably 95% of them would turn out to be John Creasey..."

Haha, he did have quite a few pseudonyms! I have one or two books by him on my Kindle, but haven't got round to them yet.

[Rosina]

When I was an avid reader of crime/police procedurals I thought that all writers had the same style. Then I realised they were all the same man!

[Jan C]

John Dickson Carr a/k/a Carter Dickson. I think he was the only American writer chosen to be a Grand Master by the Detection Club.

[Susan]

Some good names, so far. Can we come up with a male 'Big Four'?

[Susan]

Perhaps Conan Doyle would be the male Christie? :)

[Sue]

Susan wrote: "Now that we are a few months into this challenge, what is your response to Ngaio Marsh? How do you think she compares to our previous challenges - Dorothy L. Sayers and Miss Marple?"

I really enjoyed reading these books in a group. It helped me see things that I would otherwise have missed, whether that was plot points or character traits. This was my first experience of doing that - never having been in any kind of book club before. However, I didn't enjoy her writing as much as I'd hoped. I read the first four, then started the fifth and sixth because I had a combined copy which contained all three stories. I didn't finish either of those two and probably won't read any more.

I found Alleyn quite irritating at times, with his flippant attitude. Also there were too many phrases that meant nothing to me, perhaps because they were cultural references that no longer have meaning. I wonder if that's partly why she is less well known today than Agatha Christie. AC's books seem relevant and fresh today even though they are from the same period.

I'm really glad I joined in the challenge though, and will watch out for the next one!

[Susan]

I think a few of us have mentioned that Agatha Christie has 'travelled better,' as it were. She seems remarkably ageless in terms of plots and character. I think she stayed away from much of the current slang and also her motives are quite believable and don't often stray far from money, jealousy and love.

[Tracey]

I'd second a vote for including John Dickson Carr in the male 'big 4'. What about adding John Bude for consideration?

[Lesley]

Susan wrote: "I think a few of us have mentioned that Agatha Christie has 'travelled better,' as it were. She seems remarkably ageless in terms of plots and character. I think she stayed away from much of the cu..."

Which could be considered the ageless, perennial human traits.

[Adrian]

Susan wrote: "I think a few of us have mentioned that Agatha Christie has 'travelled better,' as it were. She seems remarkably ageless in terms of plots and character. I think she stayed away from much of the cu..."

Having played catch-up to a small extent on the Ngaio Marsh challenge, I have to agree with Susan that Christie has travelled better and in my opinion IS better.

For the male "Big 4" if we can include relatively modern authors, I'd go for Colin Dexter. I just love Morse (old and new when it comes to TV).

[Susan]

Lots of contenders for male writers (my own faves would have to be Nicholas Blake and Edmund Crispin, from the GA era). Apart from Conan Doyle, though, there is no real central definite, as there is with Christie. I think we are just lucky that, every now and then, a really special author - male or female - comes along and changes everything.