World, Writing, Wealth discussion
World & Current Events
>
What are your ideas on the EU?
date
newest »
newest »
I think the EU as a project has already peaked and is now on the extended downswing phase as sovereignty devolves back to nation states.The process will take decades unless there is a major war that swings it rapidly to one pole (union) or the other (disintegration).
Seen from that seemingly Machiavellian POV, the Russian Bear chipping away at the borders to establish its hegemony in Eastern Europe and the Nordic countries coupled with a somewhat erratic American unilateralism would make for a stronger EU Federaist position.
It's complicated by the following elements.[1] Rise of nationalist parties
[2] Rise of separatist movements
[3] Brexit
I think the problem with the EU lies in the way it was formed. It started out as a Common Market, and everyone thought that was a great idea, including the Brits. Then they introduced the Euro, which was in theory a good idea, but only if everybody had a common economic policy, and they did not. Then Brussels became more and more like a Federal Government, but it was not really elected, and there was no European policy voted on by citizens, but rather a concoction from bureaucrats. The more recent problems have arisen because there are very different cultures, but Brussels seems to want to try to homogenise the EU, in effect, federalism by stealth. The deluge of immigrants from Syria and Africa has caused all sorts of prob less. It is all very well for a few politicians to say we should do this, but it is the ordinary people who suffer. Look at unemployment in Greece, all done to save German banks. Places like the US work because the overall population sees themselves as Americans, and all part of the same history. Canada has had a few tensions because of the language issue but they have managed. Similarly, Australia manages because all the people believe in it, and in all cases, the federal government is voted in independently. Europe fails these sort of tests, so my guess is its stability is questionable as one entity.
I disagree with the Russian threat. Most of Europe is not that militarily inclined now.
I guess I'm not the only one that thinks that Germany might capitalize on its EU hegemony at some stage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/202...Not that I support Polish far right....
The original common market was a great idea. Like all great ideas, it seems to have been extended and extended into quite new territory that many feel are not so great ideas.The important question is what does federalism bring the various parties for which it is worth losing independence?
From what I can see, they tried having a United States of Europe and forgot these are nations with their own identity and complex history. There is also not really an elected body and is run by technocrats. I tend to think it expanded too fast and not all of it is working. I can see this thing lurch along for a very long time not really working, but the sunk costs prevent it from outright failing.For the Brits, how is Brexit working in general?
I think the concept of the USA is not applicable, or at least not easily. The USA got started with a few states with a common purpose, namely get independence, and despite the fact there were a lot of disagreements, the common interest prevailed, and gradually the US started gathering further states that were either de novo or not satisfactory as independent countries. Europe has no real commonality. The EU started as a common market, and this was considered to be a very good idea, but it has drifted away from that and despite the efforts to post Russia as a threat, that is not giving any unifying thrust. The fact they speak a variety of different languages does not help either. However, i think the market/economc interests will hold it together.
Papaphilly wrote: "For the Brits, how is Brexit working in general?"
The absolutely honest answer is that I don't know :)
Brexiteers are claiming that it's a great success, while remainers are telling everyone it's a complete failure. I'm not sure how anyone can know after everything that's happened in the world since Brexit lol!
The absolutely honest answer is that I don't know :)
Brexiteers are claiming that it's a great success, while remainers are telling everyone it's a complete failure. I'm not sure how anyone can know after everything that's happened in the world since Brexit lol!
What happened to Phillip? He would be an excellent source for an answer. Beau, I was a bit surprised at your answer, but not the answer in general. The political infighting in general is expected, but the Pandemic has slanted everything asunder and wrecked any true answer that may not happen until a few years after the Pandemic is done.
Agreed, Phillip would be an excellent source of information here.
I voted leave and stand by my decision. I was just trying to be as honest as possible in my last post. I see headlines boasting about the huge benefits of Brexit and others claiming that it is a complete disaster.
Tbh, I haven't been following it closely of late because the 4-5 years of post-referendum niggling and bitching ended up boring me, and because the response to the pandemic is a bigger story. You're right, Papaphilly, it's slanted everything.
I will say one thing, though. Remainers have made a big thing about supply issues and shortages being the result of Brexit but, as proven by some of the posts in this group, it is clearly a global issue.
I voted leave and stand by my decision. I was just trying to be as honest as possible in my last post. I see headlines boasting about the huge benefits of Brexit and others claiming that it is a complete disaster.
Tbh, I haven't been following it closely of late because the 4-5 years of post-referendum niggling and bitching ended up boring me, and because the response to the pandemic is a bigger story. You're right, Papaphilly, it's slanted everything.
I will say one thing, though. Remainers have made a big thing about supply issues and shortages being the result of Brexit but, as proven by some of the posts in this group, it is clearly a global issue.
Beau is correct about supply issues. Everybody has them. Much of them are due to shipping problems, thanks to a certain virus and subsequent government actions. It is inconceivable that Brexit could be the cause of NZ supply problems, or for that matter, trade holdups between us and Australia.
Out of curiosity, does anyone think the E.U. has affected NATO or vice versa?
Given that the EU has the most representatives in NATO it must have influence, but affect it - I don't think so significantly. Since the US provides most of the muscle, I think ultimately its say is predominant. That doesn't mean the US runs it. The US will probably remain quiet and helpful, as long as it isn't an issue that bothers the US. My opinion, anyway.
I agree with Ian. I've always been under the impression that the US calls the shots in NATO, with the UK as the next most powerful voice.
However, it could be that the EU's expansionism eastwards has encouraged NATO to do the same or vice versa.
I wonder if France rejoining affected NATO attitudes in any way?
However, it could be that the EU's expansionism eastwards has encouraged NATO to do the same or vice versa.
I wonder if France rejoining affected NATO attitudes in any way?
What France does now, after the election, will be interesting. It seems to me that Macron didn't really win it - there were a lot of grumpy non-voters, and a lot that held their nose to vote against Le Pen, and I think a lot know it. The question is, will Macron care?
EU wasn't homogenic towards NATO, but might now become much more monolith. Western Europe felt unthreatened by russia at their borders and haven't been very generous on military expenditure, while Eastern European countries were much more enthusiastic.As Macron tagged it NATO was almost braindead until putler revived it and underlines its significance..
And the military industrial complex worldwide will be rubbing hands in glee.
Ian wrote: "And the military industrial complex worldwide will be rubbing hands in glee."You can thank Putin for that one....
No, they can thank Putin for that one. I have no stock in the military industrial complex anywhere so I gain nothing.
(My daughter is studying the American Revolution and the formation of the US Constitution. Hamilton, the musical, has really struck a chord with her and many of her friends. Consequently, his championing of federalism vs states rights has Ben highlighted and that seems to have a fair bit of similarities with the current EU dynamics.)