Orfeo - Whole Book - Spoilers Allowed (Dec 2017)

[Neil]

Here we will be discussing Orfeo by Richard Powers. As the book has no chapters, we are discussing the whole book. This is the discussion in which you can post spoilers. If you have not yet finished the book and don't want to run the risk of seeing a spoiler, look away now. There is another discussion for general comments without spoilers.

[Tamara]

I just finished reading the book and I have very mixed feelings about it. But I'll wait for the discussion to start before explaining my reservations.

[Neil]

Thanks, Tamara. No problem with posting your thoughts here whenever you want as this is the thread that allows spoilers.

[Neil]

Questions we could consider as part of a spoiled discussion:

1. What did you make of the ending? Is is too sentimental or just right?
2. What did you make of the use of Els's tweets as "punctuation" in the story? Did this device work for you?

Other questions will arise, I am sure.

[Tamara]

Here goes.
I thought the book was interesting but I honestly think you have to have some knowledge of music theory and music composition to fully appreciate it. I found the back stories to some of the compositions he discussed fascinating. And although I love listening to classical music, i have zero training in music and got a bit lost when he went into the specifics of a piece.

For what it's worth, my review on goodreads:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Neil]

Tamara - thanks for this. I think the topic of whether you need a background in music is worth hearing about from other people. It is applicable to many of Powers’ books. I have a reasonable level of music in my background so I could understand it all.

What do others think?

[LindaJ^]

I read this book in 2014 and some of it is still vivid in my mind. I read it in audio, so did not know there were no chapters! I remember the beginning when he buried the dog and the police showed up. It a while to appreciate his bond with the dog. I was fascinated with his experiments with the bacteria serratia marcescens, as years ago I worked in a microbiology lab and s. marcescens are red when grown in a petri dish (or in a drinking glass left too long next to the bathroom sink). I saw a lot in the lab as they are frequent causes of respiratory infection of children with cystic fibrosis.

I know little about music but could appreciate the main character's obsession and how it affected all his relationships. I enjoyed the way we learned about his relationship with his daughter. I also liked the way the story was structured, with our learning the background as the main character "runs from the law."

[Maggie]

Neil wrote: "Tamara - thanks for this. I think the topic of whether you need a background in music is worth hearing about from other people. It is applicable to many of Powers’ books. I have a reasonable level ..."

My introduction to Powers was The Goldbug Variations which was certainly enhanced by some knowledge of both music and DNA. I came away with a fascination and love of the Goldberg variations which I had never "gotten" by just listening. Am forever thankful for that. Point is, Powers' books will take you wherever you are and entertain/educate. Love them all. (Most underappreciated, Three Farmers on Their Way to a Dance.)

[Neil]

Thanks, Maggie. For me, the musical discovery in Orfeo was “Quartet for the End of Time” which I had never heard before but now play on an almost daily basis. Reading about it being written added to its power, I think.

[Joy D]

Just finished Orfeo. As to questions that have been previously discussed in this thread:

- I had no issue with the ending. I think you can imagine it a number of different ways, and I liked that it was up to each person's interpretation as to what occurred.

- I was not a big fan of the tweets. I think I would have liked them more if they made sense to me, but many did not.

- I have a fairly extensive background in classical music, but I still had difficulty interpreting some of the descriptive passages.

- I did not like that it was so unstructured. I prefer chapters, quotation marks, and logical flow (not sure whether to call it "logical" or not but there were parts that went off on tangents unrelated to the previous paragraphs). I'm not a big fan of stream of consciousness, just a personal preference.

My take on this unusual novel is that it is an avant-garde piece of music translated into words by the author. I felt as if I were in the mind of this musical genius, at times scattered and at other times extremely analytical and focused. Did anyone else feel this way?

[Sarah]

Joy D wrote: "Just finished Orfeo. As to questions that have been previously discussed in this thread:

- I had no issue with the ending. I think you can imagine it a number of different ways, and I liked that i..."

My take on this unusual novel is that it is an avant-garde piece of music translated into words by the author.

I agree with this perspective. Powers gave words to Peter's 'search for the meaning of life' (I grew up in the 60s) music - words that Peter stated, he "never had". While I would have preferred chapters, the '4 Movements' worked for me to organize the closure found in the four key relationships of Peter's life.

[Neil]

What did people make of the political aspects of the book? There is reference on the very first page to 9/11 and it seems that Powers focuses on "state interference" and a "gullible press" in the post-9/11 world.

[Kathleen]

I just finished an am on a bit of a high. What an experience.

First, to what Joy D said, yes! I felt like I was in the mind of a musical genius. I've known some advanced musicians, thought of them throughout this book, and felt like I understand them better now.

And about the ending, I'm of two minds. I love the openess of it, but was on pins and needles leading up to it wondering what would happen, so was a little let down not knowing for sure.

But it made me think of how some songs end. Bang. It's over and you're left in the state it brought you to. Like it lingers instead of fading out.

I could go on and on about this book, but I'll stop and hope for more conversation by the end of the month. :-)

[Neil]

Kathleen - I'm so glad you enjoyed it. As several people on here already know, I am a bit of a Powers super-fan. And it is always very pleasing when someone else enjoys one of his books.

If you want more and are interested in the way he writes about music, I would suggest The Time of Our Singing. But let's not talk about it here as it is off topic!

[Hugh]

I second Neil's recommendation of The Time of Our Singing - which was my favourite of all the books I read in 2016.

[Kathleen]

Oh, I appreciate the recommendation. I'll definitely look for that one. I think I may be a super-fan in the making, Neil!

[Neil]

Thanks, carissa. Great comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the book.

The Time of Our Singing is worth looking for. Also, if you enjoyed Orfeo, I'd suggest looking for The Gold Bug Variations. Orfeo feels almost like Powers has re-written Gold Bug to bring it up to date, although Gold Bug is longer and denser in style (and perhaps more scientific - there's quite a lot about DNA in it).

[Neil]

For anyone who is interested in reading more by Powers, this article, which focuses on The Time of Our Singing, actually describes all his books up to that one (obviously not the ones that had not been written at that point - so the first 8) and is a great overview to help you decide which ones to read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/26/boo...

It includes this quote which it would be interesting to hear people's response to:

With Powers, on the other hand, you can't really separate out any one element -- the theories, the paintings, the photos, the capsule biographies of industrialists and actresses -- because what the novels are about, what they demonstrate, is the hitherto hidden connections among all those things. However idiosyncratic his technique, the novelists whom Powers really resembles are the 19th-century behemoths, like Balzac or Zola or Tolstoy, who also wanted to show you how everything in society is really intertwined.

[Kathleen]

Powers really resembles are the 19th-century behemoths, like Balzac or Zola or Tolstoy, who also wanted to show you how everything in society is really intertwined.

What a statement! But I think the author may be right. I'll read the article and be back. Thanks Neil!

[Kathleen]

I didn't know this music, and didn't feel talked down to at all.

I've been thinking about this too, and I don't think it is necessary to be a musician or to know any of this specific music to enjoy the book. I was carried away by the plot and the writing. I definitely agree those would greatly enhance the read, but think an interest in music is all that's really required. Maybe an experience of music impacting your life in some way. Without the interest and experience of music, I think it would be hard to understand what the fuss is about for Els.

After reading the article, I think it's interesting that he approaches the subjects of his books in a musical way--the harmonies and blended lines. I really felt those reading Orfeo. It's both subject and writing style, and I think that's fascinating.

And back to need for musical knowledge, I believe there are plenty of non-musician music lovers out there who probably find this stuff fascinating, or would, if they had someone as gifted as Powers to show it to them in this way.

I'm just so anxious to read another of his novels!

[Maggie]

Neil wrote: "For anyone who is interested in reading more by Powers, this article, which focuses on The Time of Our Singing, actually describes all his books up to that one (obviously not the ones that had not ..."
Many thanks for this link. I've been thinking about a comment by Umberto Eco positing that reading is enriching to the same degree as is real life experience. And rich books like Powers' feel exponentially so.