Other books I've read

[Jay]

Oh, so many - where do we start?

[Sue]

You mean, in the whole universe, other books we have read? Wow.

Well I just read Catch 22 for the first time! Somehow I loved it while only occasionally enjoying reading it.

[Jay]

Hey, I read it for the first time a couple of months back, after years of meaning to and never getting round to it. It is rather a strange one... definitely had to be in the right mind-set to pick it up.

[K.A.]

I'm currently reading 'When the Guillotine Fell: the bloody beginning and horrifying end to France's river of blood'.

Okay, it sounds more gruesome than it is. I'm a true-crime aficionado and every other chapter in this book focuses on a recent true crime (that, I assume, ends in the guillotine). The intervening chapters trace the history of capital punishment in Europe and France. It's very well done and I'm having a hard time putting it down.

[[deleted user]]

I feel terrible, just started this book

Don't think I will finish it. There has been very few times when I haven't finished a book, and I get so disapointed in myself for not finishing, but I honestly can't see me reading much more.

Think I am going to make myself feel better by reading Twilight again.

[K.A.]

Er...that's an interesting concept. Seems to be a bit of a zimbie bandwagon lately.

Oh, I mis-typed zombie! A zimbie is zombie who plays the kalimba...

[Jay]

I didn't know zombies were self-aware enough to know they liked musix...

[Mark]

Catch 22 is better watched than read in my opinion. The last book I read was The Longest Memory.
Found it to astounding. More for the author's writing style, although I didn't understand the use of couplets in one section.

[Sue]

Mark wrote: "Catch 22 is better watched than read in my opinion. The last book I read was The Longest Memory.
Found it to astounding. More for the author's writing style, although I didn't understand the use of..."

Mark, I don't usually prefer movies to their source books (although I love both) but it definitely worked for me to envision Alan Arkin as Yossarian while I read the book.

[Jay]

I have to approach movies as being something different entirely. Some make good use of the base story, some don't, but even if they don't they can be good in their own right. I just don't allow myself to compare.

[Sue]

Jay wrote: "I have to approach movies as being something different entirely. Some make good use of the base story, some don't, but even if they don't they can be good in their own right. I just don't allow mys..."

Yup, I agree. However, my utmost favorite books I will avoid as movies, because I want to keep undistorted all the vivid images that evolved as I read. Life of Pi and Fault in Our Stars are two examples that leap to mind. I'm glad I made an exception to see LOTR but still kind of miss my previous images of Aragorn and Galadriel, which I can no longer conjure without seeing the actors, too.

[Sue]

Looking at K.A. and D.M.'s posts here, and the novels available for review, I can see that I need to develop the Right Attitude or this group will stress me out - already in one day I have discovered more books than I can reasonably expect to read in a couple months.

[Jay]

Good, isn't it ;)

[Jay]

Mark wrote: "Catch 22 is better watched than read in my opinion. The last book I read was The Longest Memory.
Found it to astounding. More for the author's writing style, although I didn't understand the use of..."

Now there's a book a can also definitely recommend; I was very impressed with The Longest Memory. Here's my review, posted on Amazon in June:

Having read this book I was not at all surprised to find that Fred D’Aguiar is an award-winning poet; he is a master of making every word earn its place. This book would be an excellent text for study in literature classes, at school or university level. I read it today and know that I could read it tomorrow and get more from it, but it is so well-written that if you just want to read the surface story you will find it an easy read and you will not be disappointed.

[Mark]

So what's up with the couplets? I know he's a poet and I know that I don't know how to read it but why?

[[deleted user]]

K.A. wrote: "Er...that's an interesting concept. Seems to be a bit of a zimbie bandwagon lately.

Oh, I mis-typed zombie! A zimbie is zombie who plays the kalimba..."

LOL, I may steal that idea ;-)

[[deleted user]]

Sue wrote: "Looking at K.A. and D.M.'s posts here, and the novels available for review, I can see that I need to develop the Right Attitude or this group will stress me out - already in one day I have discover..."

Me too. Awasome lists :)

[Jay]

Mark wrote: "So what's up with the couplets? I know he's a poet and I know that I don't know how to read it but why?"

Until fairly recently I avoided poetry; it demands more work than reading prose. With some help from the poets Dax Christopher, Barry Gray and Ryan Stone I've been learning how to read and appreciate it. Now I think poetry is the distilled essence of experience, sensation, emotion. If a short story requires greater discipline in word usage, then poetry takes it to the next level again. So yes, it's harder to write, and it demands some effort from the reader, but the pay-off is immense.

[Mark]

But in the context of the book - I found the section written that way distracting. So why do you think he wrote that one character that way?

[Jay]

Each character had their own distinctive voice. Some people best express their thoughts and feelings in poetry.

[Jay]

I've just been sitting in the garden thinking about your challenging question, Mark - boy, do you make me think hard at times!

I think what I'm trying to say is that it's hard to leave a bit of your soul on the page, but very easy to run scared afterwards and hide what you revealed about yourself in all those other words you covered the page with. Poetry is the province of the courageous among us; there's no hiding, no holding back when it's done well. This can be a release for the poet, like a very private diary would be for me.

[Mark]

I went back and looked at the book. It was Chapel's narration. It makes more sense now why the author did it that way. Chapel was going to make his living composing poetry and prose, when he escaped.

To your comment on poetry being the distillation down to the essence - Shouldn't all writing be that way. I find too many authors trying to give every detail to the reader. I prefer allowing the reader to envision their own scenario within the confines that the author has constructed. Having said that, I know that I am in the minority.

[Jay]

I agree there should be room left for the reader's imagination; I guess all it all comes down to degrees of telling and styles of writing.

[Mark]

One of the few things I remember from college writing class was "economy of language". Sadly that is about all I remember. That is why I like Hemingway's style but not his books. If we could clone Hemingway for brevity and Faulkner for story we would have the perfect author. Maybe throw in a dash of Tennessee Williams for perversion.

[K.A.]

I devoured poetry as a child and even recited it in contests, starting when I was 6 (I had an English Lit mother). However, I haven't read much as an adult, and I confess, I like poetry that generally rhymes and has an identifiable rhythm. I loved Dax' water poem for the last OWAW.

(For my 6-year-old recitation, I did one of A.A. Milne's poems, about the King who wanted a bit of butter for his bread. I believe my final one, at age 14, was 'The Highwayman', by Alfred Noyes (?) or 'Night With A Wolf' by Bayard Taylor.)

[Jay]

I'm working with a poet right now. In my new novel one of the MCs is a poet, but I'm useless at poetry; Ryan Stone(yes, the same Ryan who contributed to OWAW 2014) is writing Joe's poetry. I was very impressed with the poetry that was contributed to OWAW.

[Jay]

Mark wrote: "One of the few things I remember from college writing class was "economy of language". Sadly that is about all I remember. That is why I like Hemingway's style but not his books. If we could clone ..."

I've just come across this in Life's Enthusiasms by David Starr Jordan:
It is your duty toward poetry to take the highest you can reach. Then learn it by heart. Learn it when you are young. It will give you a fresh well of thoughts. It will form your style as a writer. That is poetry in which truth is expressed in the fewest possible words, in words which are inevitable, in words which could not be changed without weakening the meaning or throwing discord into the melody. To choose the right word and discard all others, this is the chief factor in good writing. To learn good poetry by heart is to acquire help towards doing this instinctively, automatically, as other habits are acquired.

[Ryan]

Hi all. Interesting thread! I like some of the ideas you've thrown up here.

For me, the supreme example of poetry and writing existing in perfect harmony lies within the pages of Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities.

Definitely worth a read, I guarantee it will be among the most beautiful pieces of writing you'll ever find.

[Jay]

My choice (if we move away from the accepted giants in literature - my choice there would be Thomas Hardy, Jane Austen, John Steinbeck, Maeve Binchy, Isaac Asimov) then I'd recommend Green Dolphin Country by Elizabeth Goudge and The Precious Bane by Mary Webb.

[Jay]

Recently I read and thoroughly enjoyed Fred D'Aguiar's book, The Longest Memory - here's my review of it:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R3BG9M...

A friend saw me reading it and said if I like that I'd also enjoy The Secret Life of Bees by Sue Monk Kidd; she wasn't wrong. I've only just posted my 5* review so it's still being processed and I can't give a link yet.

I'd give my eye teeth to have written a novel of the standard of these 2 books. I guess I'd better keep practising.

[K.A.]

Reading Quite Contrary, a re-imagined fairy tale - or set of fairy tales - featuring an accidental, and not very appealing, Red Riding Hood. It's not bad, definitely off-beat and not for children!

[Jay]

I was recommended that quite a while back - didn't really like it much, but I could see it was well-written and that other people would enjoy it.

[Jay]

Today I started reading a book that had glowing reviews, and the only dedication was to the author's 'friend and agent'. So why, if it's gone the 'official', fully supported route to publication, does it still have such errors as a bride with a 'cortege of flowers'? Why is this author so popular, with so many 'best-sellers' to her name, when the stories are so banal?

Don't get me wrong - it could be quite a gripping story if a good editor got her hands on it. As it stands - meh, it will do, much as I despise the assumption that a reader needs every little detail spelled out because (obviously) we are not bright enough to pick up on what's happening, or have the imagination to make inferences.

[Mark]

'official', fully supported route to publication,
Is part of the answer. Say what we will, but advertising and connections go a long way. How many times do we say, "indie authors." It's because we can be likened to a school of sardines. How many times do you hear of a sardine? It's always used in the plural. The great thing about ebooks is anyone can publish. The bad thing about ebooks is anyone can publish.

[K.A.]

I think I was very lucky to get the editor I did when my first series was traditionally published. I have certainly seen self-edited works that were edited better than some traditionally-published works. I think one thing that's happening is that a lot of small, new traditional publishers are incorporating, and they are trying to do everything themselves or with the help of a few friends, or they're hiring people with little background because they don't charge a lot. I don't think these small publishers are much (any) better than self-publishing. In fact, although I did get a good editor with mine, I parted ways with them partly because I thought I could do a better job formatting and presenting the books myself, and I certainly wasn't getting any advertising from them, as far as I could tell.

Short version: some self-pubbed books are just as well done or better than some small traditional publishers' products.

There seems to be this giant, nebulous collection of middle-rate publishers in between the Big Six (or Five, is it, now?) and the self-publishers. Growing pains?

[K.A.]

I now find all sorts of issues in books that used to be my favorites! Particularly bad seem to be later books by well-known authors - as if the editors were too afraid to point out issues (or they weren't edited at all!)

[Jay]

Elizabeth wrote: "So I picked up my favorite authors' book again, Cold Vengeance (I had to stop in the middle of one of their trilogies). And I had to ask myself...

Am I becoming a book snob due to my Goodreads exp..."

Occasionally I like feeling smug, knowing I've done something better than the 'experts' ;)

[K.A.]

Speaking of poorly-edited - I'm reading Wellcome to Hell: Was Sir Henry Wellcome Jack the Ripper? and came across this passage:

"My only interest in the exhibition was in an exhibit containing a slither of Albert Einstein's brain."

I'm pretty sure he meant 'sliver' but 'slither of brain' is just creepily disgusting!

[Jay]

Would that brain slither along more happily if it that cortege of flowers?

Hey, Elizabeth, you've reminded me of an early critique of my first book; he said I was head-hopping with gay abandon - are we allowed to still use that lovely word 'gay' with its original meaning? It's tragic that we've lost it for general conversation... where was I? Oh yes, he said he couldn't work out how or why it worked but it did, he loved it! I've taken heed, though (having learned what on earth a POV is) but it's a hard slog to get it right.

[Mark]

My plumbing pipes are made of POV or is that PVC? Either way it don't leak when I flush.

You girls are lucky, I've had a point of view for years and no one ever pays it any attention.

[K.A.]

Here's another gem from 'Wellcome to Hell', which is so rife with errors it's difficult to read:

"Wellcome finally recovered his composer after the Dartford Factory opening..."

[Sue]

K.A. wrote: "Here's another gem from 'Wellcome to Hell', which is so rife with errors it's difficult to read:

"Wellcome finally recovered his composer after the Dartford Factory opening...""

Now that sounds like an autocorrect run amok.

[Mark]

No nothing at all.

[Jay]

K.A. wrote: "Here's another gem from 'Wellcome to Hell', which is so rife with errors it's difficult to read:

"Wellcome finally recovered his composer after the Dartford Factory opening...""

If the factory had been closed before it was opened perhaps the composer had been trapped inside?

My latest 'find and replace' faux pas was changing mum to Mum - and forgot about miniMum.

[K.A.]

Well, if there are Mini-Mes, there must be MiniMums somewhere.