World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Why are US mass shootings getting more deadly?
J.J. wrote: "No matter how "civilized" we might have been in the last 50 or so years, we know it's just a mask. We know if we let it lull us into a false sense of national security, that mask can be ripped off...."Well said
J. wrote: "Nik,Re: US citizens owning canons
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/p......"
Then maybe if they open tank or Apache stores, we'd see lines like for new iphones? And maybe (again) even driving or flying license wouldn't be necessary in this case as limiting 2-nd amendment :)
Going far out there, Nik :-)J.J., what you said is what I feel: "To us, it seems our entire history has been defined by ordinary people fighting at the barrel of a gun. No matter how "civilized" we might have been in the last 50 or so years, we know it's just a mask. We know if we let it lull us into a false sense of national security, that mask can be ripped off."
I'm reading a novel now The World That We Knew by Alice Hoffman. It begins in Nazi Germany with the disenfranchisement of the Jewish people. As I've read, I've wondered how things might have been different if the Jewish people had been armed and ready to defend themselves, as we are. It's possible for your government to turn against you. One character says that she feels like a rabbit among wolves. Best to be prepared and able to fight back, even if you're outnumbered and outgunned :-)
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pp...This sort of says it all when it comes to American Military might. What they do not talk about is if for some reason a foreign country could take out our military, they could never hold a country with all of the weapons we possess.
Condolences to the families of the victims of the massacre in Texas
I am not getting on the gun ban band wagon. There have been mass killings in the recent past committed with explosives, cars, poison gas, machetes and even airplanes. I would concentrate what mass killers have in common.Yes, as Scout observes, even well meaning gun control attempts can be used against the public, just what happened with the Weimar republic's gun policies and how they enabled Hitler's gun confiscation.
Maybe we should just make bullets really expensive? $1k a bullet; then shooters would have to decide if that person was worth it to them.
It's unimaginable if a shooting occurred in my grand kids schools, in particular the nine year old's, given today's circumstances. However it's not the guns per se that are to blame; they are the messenger. Instead it is the constant barrage of hatred, insolence, intolerance and arrogance of the press, colleges, politicians, movies, corporate leaders and elitists who have been fomenting revolution since the end of WWII. They have succeeded in denigrating patriotism, religion, family and common sense while concurrently praising violence, mayhem and anything that erodes the pillars of the world that maintain modern society. The wayward people who perpetuate these horrific acts are the result of this designed complicity and the finger should be pointed at these global cabal practitioners to cease and desist these practices. Unfortunately they are not willing to abrogate their power, for sure.
Scout wrote: "Going far out there, Nik :-)J.J., what you said is what I feel: "To us, it seems our entire history has been defined by ordinary people fighting at the barrel of a gun. No matter how "civilized" ..."
And that's why the globalists want to disarm us. Every dictator confiscates guns, then subjugates the citizens: Mao, Pol Pot, Hilter, Castro, Venezuela. The second amendment was included to stop the government (Kings and Queens) from complete tyranny. Not to enable hunters.
I agree. Even look to the states that have gun laws that put tremendous obstacles to gun ownership - usually heated up by those governors who loved wielding their executive powers during the lockdowns.If you want to ban guns, then I say, start at the top - let all of the legislators, governors, celebrities give up their armed security first.
I agree with you guys, who are making good sense. My neighbor and I were talking today, and she supports banning the sale of semi-automatic weapons. That makes no sense to me when that would leave law-abiding citizens with no defense against bad actors who can get the weapons illegally. She says they're only meant to kill people, and I say, yes, the bad guys use them to kill good people, and we need to be able to defend ourselves in kind.What's the answer to stopping these crazies from killing children? Better security at the schools to keep them out. More armed officers, even arming teachers, might make them think twice and cut down response time. The guns are out there; the crazies are out there. Making it more difficult for them to get into schools and meeting them with armed response inside the schools seems like a good idea. It's sad that this is where we are.
Scout wrote: "Making it more difficult for them to get into schools and meeting them with armed response inside the schools seems like a good idea...."It almost sounds like a good idea about arming teachers. Can solve a problem. Yet, think about it this way, trained cops did not respond well enough and now you are going to add more weapons to teachers that will not in their very nature be ready to kill. They will more likely add both more confusion and I suspect more accidental shootings due to nerves. This is not counting being shot themselves as a mistaken gunman if cops come across them during an active shooter incident. Now on top of that, guns in the classroom will only entice certain types kids to try and find them if for no other purpose than curiosity.
The only answer to this is preventative mental health care which our country has been loath to pay for in taxes.
On top of this, school shootings are truly rare events even with the sudden amount. Society should not overreact by making it worse with more weapons in school. This shooter was a bad series of events that led to tragedy. With my background, I am willing to bet that any one action could have lessened or prevented the shooting. I am not laying blame anywhere, it is much too early, but I suspect when it is over with the investigation and hot wash, something truly simple could have been done.
If it bleeds; it leads!"Media Contagion" Is Factor in Mass Shootings, Study Says
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...
J. wrote: "If it bleeds; it leads!"Media Contagion" Is Factor in Mass Shootings, Study Says
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releas..."
That is not new anymore than those that have guns do prevent crime by bad people.
If the answer to school shootings is to arm teachers (and I agree with Papaphilly, it isn't because it just adds to the confusion in an incident) the question then is, where else do you arm someone? From a distance, it is hard to tell what is really happening, but the implication from the number of police shootings or police killing suspects is that there are some police with inadequate training, or inadequate personality and should not be in the job. My guess is, this is because there are so many police forces.As for school shootings, my view is this is a parenting problem. Parents should keep their firearms out of a child's access, other than with supervision after they reach a certain age, and somehow a child that wants to shoot other children has had a total lack of proper education from parents in how to live their lives. Somewhere along the line each child should grow up with some sort of ambition on where they are going to be in life, and should be working towards it. Going out shooting people should not be such an ambition.
Why is it so common to find out about feds who knew ahead of time and did nothing?https://youtu.be/lh7oas_UKxI
If they can buy guns at 18, they should be able to buy booze at 16
Nik wrote: "If they can buy guns at 18, they should be able to buy booze at 16"Buying booze is not a Constitutional guarantee.
J. wrote: "Why is it so common to find out about feds who knew ahead of time and did nothing?https://youtu.be/lh7oas_UKxI"
However you see this issue, we are a reactive society. He did not cross the proverbial line. It looks really bad in retrospect, but there are Constitutional issues to be able say what one will.
Papaphilly wrote: "J. wrote: "Why is it so common to find out about feds who knew ahead of time and did nothing?https://youtu.be/lh7oas_UKxI"
However you see this issue, we are a reactive society. He did not cross ..."
There's no violation in saying "Hi" or sitting a cruiser in a parking lot.
Nik wrote: "If they can buy guns at 18, they should be able to buy booze at 16"So they can be thoroughly drunk before they go shooting?
Nik wrote: "If they can buy guns at 18, they should be able to buy booze at 16"They can be drafted and die a horrible screaming death at 18.
Papaphilly wrote: "Scout wrote: "Making it more difficult for them to get into schools and meeting them with armed response inside the schools seems like a good idea...."
It almost sounds like a good idea about armi..."
I completely agree with Papaphilly's excellent post. To even consider having to arm teachers shows what a sick society America has become.
I used to be firmly with Adrian on this topic but J and others have changed my mind. Barbara also made a very smart point about why banning guns would have no effect in reducing mass murders - the murderers would simply use any other tools at their disposal.
This is definitely a societal problem, rather than simply a gun one. If not, how can we explain other countries with liberal (true sense of the word) gun ownership laws, who don't have this kind of problem?
It almost sounds like a good idea about armi..."
I completely agree with Papaphilly's excellent post. To even consider having to arm teachers shows what a sick society America has become.
I used to be firmly with Adrian on this topic but J and others have changed my mind. Barbara also made a very smart point about why banning guns would have no effect in reducing mass murders - the murderers would simply use any other tools at their disposal.
This is definitely a societal problem, rather than simply a gun one. If not, how can we explain other countries with liberal (true sense of the word) gun ownership laws, who don't have this kind of problem?
Good point, Beau, but how do you change the attitudes?
Ian wrote: "Good point, Beau, but how do you change the attitudes?"
I don't know, Ian. How do you heal a sick society? Papaphilly's support for better mental health services would be a start. Do you have any other suggestions? (Btw, Amercians, I'm not talking down to you because we've got some sick individuals over here too - just look at what happened in Plymouth a year or so ago.)
Gun ownership is firmly ingrained in American culture and this goes all the way back to the frontier days. In fact, the gun lobby could argue that without gun ownership, there would have been no American independence.
If you attempted to ban it, it would be completely unfair on people like J. In fact, it would probably incite civil war. If restrictions were tightened, the black market would take over or (like Barbara said) the murderers would use other tools at their disposal.
All in all, it's a very difficult problem to solve and I don't have the answers.
I don't know, Ian. How do you heal a sick society? Papaphilly's support for better mental health services would be a start. Do you have any other suggestions? (Btw, Amercians, I'm not talking down to you because we've got some sick individuals over here too - just look at what happened in Plymouth a year or so ago.)
Gun ownership is firmly ingrained in American culture and this goes all the way back to the frontier days. In fact, the gun lobby could argue that without gun ownership, there would have been no American independence.
If you attempted to ban it, it would be completely unfair on people like J. In fact, it would probably incite civil war. If restrictions were tightened, the black market would take over or (like Barbara said) the murderers would use other tools at their disposal.
All in all, it's a very difficult problem to solve and I don't have the answers.
On this topic, it'll be interesting to see what happens in Ukraine once the war is over because it is now going to have an extraordinarily well-armed populace, some of whom will be mentally scarred by war. Has America not only supplied weapons to fight Putin, but exported its gun problem to Ukraine too? In fact, the average Ukrainian is probably now better armed than the average American.
Whoever wanted to purchase did so back in 2014. Arms given out don’t make a serious difference. Mass shootings were extremely rare in Ukraine and I hope they will stay that way
I do not believe there will be mass shootings like this in Ukraine, and I don't think mental scarring from real events has anything to do with it. I think it arises from mentally sick individuals that have a huge grudge, but have no real excuse for it, so they make one up in their mind. There may be some trigger, the straw that sends them over the brink, but the underlying grudge is most likely imagined.In one example, I was born where I was because a farmer went on a shooting spree and shot policemen. (He was almost sniper-grade as a shooter and he used a rifle) Why? Because "the government was against him. Why? Well, he was a farmer, and had his milk returned because it was not supplied to proper hygiene standards. (This interested me because Dad was a replacement policeman.)
Why kids take a gun and shoot other kids is probably because of a lack of purpose in the shooters, and they have a grudge. The parents have neglected to bring them up properly. I have no idea what you do about that, BUT I think one part of gun control could be that gun ownership should mean that guns, when not used, should be in locked cabinets. They should not be accessible to children when unsupervised.
There is a therapeutic element in Western Civilization which allows people to absolve themselves of evil by blaming everything else.It wasn't the evil piece of child murdering filth. It was the gun.
It wasn't the absentee parents. It was the Nazis on Elon Musk's Twitter.
It wasn't the failure of law enforcement to enforce the laws already on the books. It was a lack of laws.
Me, I just get strange looks when I respond to the question of what to do about school shooters with the statement, "Tall trees and short ropes."
Ian wrote: "I do not believe there will be mass shootings like this in Ukraine, and I don't think mental scarring from real events has anything to do with it. I think it arises from mentally sick individuals t..."
Ian, I know you weren't around at the time of the farmer's shooting spree but your post reminded me of something I meant to say to you a while ago...
You appear to have led an extraordinarily exciting life and been in numerous danger zones. I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen more action than many people who have had long military careers.
Ian, I know you weren't around at the time of the farmer's shooting spree but your post reminded me of something I meant to say to you a while ago...
You appear to have led an extraordinarily exciting life and been in numerous danger zones. I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen more action than many people who have had long military careers.
J. wrote: "Me, I just get strange looks when I respond to the question of what to do about school shooters with the statement, "Tall trees and short ropes.""
Reminds me of the famous saying from the classic western, Hang em High:
That makes three mistakes we've made. The money, we hung an innocent man, and we didn't finish the job.
:)
Reminds me of the famous saying from the classic western, Hang em High:
That makes three mistakes we've made. The money, we hung an innocent man, and we didn't finish the job.
:)
Yep, lynching is often more for convenience than justice.
Beau wrote: "Ian wrote: "I do not believe there will be mass shootings like this in Ukraine, and I don't think mental scarring from real events has anything to do with it. I think it arises from mentally sick i..."I have thought about writing a bio, if only for my grandchildren's amusement. I once counted up how many times I was nearly killed, and gave up somewhere in the teens. Many of them some might not notice, though. One included a plane landing. The plane bounced, and tilted. I looked out a port window and the tip of the wing came very close to the ground. None of the other hundred or so passengers seemed to notice, but as I was disembarking the pilot came into view - he was as white as a sheet.
Ian wrote: "Yep, lynching is often more for convenience than justice."They'll get their trial by jury. If they're found guilty, they dance for the crowd.
Beau wrote: "In fact, the average Ukrainian is probably now better armed than the average American...."Probably not...
Ian wrote: "I have no idea what you do about that, BUT I think one part of gun control could be that gun ownership should mean that guns, when not used, should be in locked cabinets. They should not be accessible to children when unsupervised...."Some places in the U.S. have exactly those laws and they do not stop people from getting guns any more than drug laws and underage drinking laws work. A motivated person will always get what they are after.
I have a question. How does a teenager working part-time at a fast food joint afford a $2000 rifle, hundreds of dollars worth of ammo, and body armor?
J. wrote: "I have a question. How does a teenager working part-time at a fast food joint afford a $2000 rifle, hundreds of dollars worth of ammo, and body armor?"
Pocket money?
Pocket money?
Ian wrote: "I have thought about writing a bio..."
You should do. It would be very interesting. Allow me to suggest a working title:
The Mathematics of Chance
Re flying, I used to enjoy it but a flight over Australia's Northern Territory, when heavy turbulence caused the crew to strap themselves in and passengers to scream, put paid to that.
You should do. It would be very interesting. Allow me to suggest a working title:
The Mathematics of Chance
Re flying, I used to enjoy it but a flight over Australia's Northern Territory, when heavy turbulence caused the crew to strap themselves in and passengers to scream, put paid to that.
I recall flying in a de Havilland Dove over the Hawaiian islands and the pilot for some reason decided to go straight through a giant cumulus structure. The wings were flapping lake an agitated sparrow's. (OK a little slower, but . . .) I was seriously afraid the wings might take on metal fatigue or something, but they held. The odd other passenger's stomach didn't.
Sounds like a frightening experience, Ian. Here are a couple more suggestions for working titles if you write an autobiography:
Defying The Law of Probability
by Ian Miller
Chemistry and Conflict in A Changing World
by Ian Miller
Defying The Law of Probability
by Ian Miller
Chemistry and Conflict in A Changing World
by Ian Miller
Well, thanks for the suggestions, Beau. The real problem is writing it.
J. wrote: "I have a question. How does a teenager working part-time at a fast food joint afford a $2000 rifle, hundreds of dollars worth of ammo, and body armor?"Credit card
Papaphilly wrote: "J. wrote: "I have a question. How does a teenager working part-time at a fast food joint afford a $2000 rifle, hundreds of dollars worth of ammo, and body armor?"Credit card"
That's a massive credit line for an eighteen year old making minimum wage 20 hours per week.
Ian wrote: "Yes, but he never intended to repay it."My comment was about Visa issuing said credit line.
J. wrote: "Ian wrote: "Yes, but he never intended to repay it."My comment was about Visa issuing said credit line."
Maybe Grandmas?
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
A Republic, If You Can Keep It (other topics)The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956 (other topics)
The Diary of Anne Frank (other topics)
Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung: Mao’s Little Red Book Original Version (other topics)
I think to add, Americans tend to hold onto history. It's easy when we're a lot younger than European society, but from this side of the ocean, it seems even recent history is something Europe forgets. For example, we're seeing on our news that antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. We increasingly see most countries taking an anti-Israel position in the UN. It feels like the lessons of the Holocaust are being swept aside in the rest of the world.
Here in the US, most people won't let go of the Civil War which occurred about 70-80 years before WWII. It's not just white Southerners who want a return to more local control, but also African Americans who remember the worst of what their kind went through in this country, and know how easily we could backslide into that kind of oppression.
We hold onto the Revolution. We hold onto the "taming of the West." We hold onto the challenges the early colonists faced against the Natives. To us, it seems out entire history has been defined by ordinary people fighting at the barrel of a gun. No matter how "civilized" we might have been in the last 50 or so years, we know it's just a mask. We know if we let it lull us into a false sense of national security, that mask can be ripped off.